Ultimately there isn't any point in getting too worked up over anything this dipfingulus says, he is an also ran candidate and I can't imagine he has any significant political future.
Beto is not coming for your guns.
- Thread starter Marine Cpl
- Start date
One thing- "Red Flag" laws violate due process and as such any resultant confiscation orders are most definitely not lawful.
On an interesting note, soldiers in our military are taught not only to disobey any unlawful orders but also to report such up the chain of command.
So are cops, but when a forum is deciding what’s lawful and unlawful AND fully kool aid drunk, who am I to convince you otherwise?
I can recite numerous examples of PO’s reporting bosses from Sgt on up for unlawful orders. I’ve been present when we’ve told bosses that a particular arrest he/she just ordered wasn’t lawful. These things absolutely happen.
I’m one of the few on here who’s actually had my guns taken by the PD as well (and a bow, which bothered me much more).
But since the media (and guys like this) only tell you the bad side of policing, you’re convinced it never happens.
I can recite numerous examples of PO’s reporting bosses from Sgt on up for unlawful orders. I’ve been present when we’ve told bosses that a particular arrest he/she just ordered wasn’t lawful. These things absolutely happen.
I’m one of the few on here who’s actually had my guns taken by the PD as well (and a bow, which bothered me much more).
But since the media (and guys like this) only tell you the bad side of policing, you’re convinced it never happens.
Are you able to tell those stories here? We have a big problem with insular subcultures in this country, it would help if we could talk more freely about things.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
None of what you just said disputes what the YM said. He is still correct. Whether some cops turn in others and whether some cops themselves get their guns taken away is irrelevant. At the end of the day, a cop will perform the actual confiscation. You are peeved that he is saying the truth and turn it into an us vs them mentality because that is how your mind is wired.
It doesn’t matter that cops do good things. That’s irrelevant. What matters is what they will do to you if an order is issued against you.
Of course not. Just like I can’t talk about what happens at my range...
I think the whole thing blue line thing hurts as much as it helps you. That's my perception anyway. I believe it helps foster the "Us vs Them" mentality.
I’m not trying to change your mind, we’ve figured each other out long ago.
My main point all along is that guys like this are a direct threat to me as they whip up nonsense like this based on some losers statements. He’s more dangerous to me than this Beto guy ever will be because when Beto is gone (as he will be soon), the sentiment against me that lisper puts out there will already be hardened in some people’s minds.
For every thousand like you, her may only create one violent anti-cop actor, but those handful are enough, the exact logic you use trying to convince me. This guy makes me a target, and for that, I consider him an enemy.
With guys like this running around you’re not going to convince me that becoming a cuck to “fix” this issue is the proper choice. Maybe it’s an out of control snowball at this point with issues on both sides, but there’s nothing I can do about that.
What did he say that was untrue though? You saying your whole department would refuse a confiscation order?
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
What I’m gathering is that you are saying that people should never speak about the inadequacies of a police department because it causes a division and in turn jeopardizes your life. Is that correct?
This guy isn’t trying to mend fences, you’re not stupid and neither am I. I didn’t say anything like that.
Guys like him exist to fan the flames. His schtick is to convince you that cops are your enemies. That makes him my enemy. He’s as dangerous to me as black lives matter is.
We work with plenty of community partners to mend fences. I regularly consult with designated “leaders” trying to forge bonds between the police and communities that traditionally do not trust the police. We discuss actual incidents of police impropriety when necessary.
What we don’t do is take a sound bite, set up our cameras, then proceed to demonize each other. Fuck this guy and anyone like him. He’s a threat with zero interest in solving any issues on either side of the situation. Period.
Guys like him exist to fan the flames. His schtick is to convince you that cops are your enemies. That makes him my enemy. He’s as dangerous to me as black lives matter is.
We work with plenty of community partners to mend fences. I regularly consult with designated “leaders” trying to forge bonds between the police and communities that traditionally do not trust the police. We discuss actual incidents of police impropriety when necessary.
What we don’t do is take a sound bite, set up our cameras, then proceed to demonize each other. Fuck this guy and anyone like him. He’s a threat with zero interest in solving any issues on either side of the situation. Period.
I think you are coming at this from the wrong direction frankly. His point is it is not the politicians that ever have to do the dirty work of enforcing their ridiculous decrees. Instead of getting mad at the messenger here you should be upset at the politicians that constantly put you in bad situations.
I don't know what you think there is to be gained by spraying sunshine up people's asses. The system is fucked, we need to fix it. Priority #1 is for the Supreme Court to get if its ass and start rulling these terrible laws unconstitutional because they are.
Nope his name is PENDEJO
Come on now, we all know his nickname should be 'fuckstain'. Yea that's it; 'fuckstain o'rourke', now that has a VERY nice ring to it!!
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Beto will not be confiscating anything, that's true.
You guys are not the enemy, that's also true.
But, it's also an absolute guarantee that someday, maybe in our lifetime, someone like Beto (or more likely worse) *will* get the power to issue that order.
When that happens, you guys *will* be the enemy. The good guys will act like spies and report on confiscation efforts from "the inside". Even those guys will be at extreme risk. The allied sniper on D-day would have no idea that the German officer in his sights was a valuable spy that should be left alone.
Collateral damage is a bitch.
It will be very interesting to see how things would turn out with an all out confiscation as well as how departments will handle Red Flag Laws.
I do not know if Red Flag laws are indeed Un-Constituional, none of us do until they are decided by SCOTUS. We can say all day that they are, but we are small men without the power of the court.
What I do know though, It is the government's job is to preserve personal liberty. Not openly steal it. The concept of a Red Flag law, which is the theft of personal property, violates both the presumption of innocence and the due process requirement of proof of criminal behavior before liberty can be infringed.
The presumption of innocence puts the burden for proving a case on the government. No the individual. We do not have Pre crime in the US. If a gun owner is dangerous and if he has broken laws, then yes; he, through his actions, relinquishes some of his Rights. If he has not broken our laws, then his guns must stay put.
I do not know if Red Flag laws are indeed Un-Constituional, none of us do until they are decided by SCOTUS. We can say all day that they are, but we are small men without the power of the court.
What I do know though, It is the government's job is to preserve personal liberty. Not openly steal it. The concept of a Red Flag law, which is the theft of personal property, violates both the presumption of innocence and the due process requirement of proof of criminal behavior before liberty can be infringed.
The presumption of innocence puts the burden for proving a case on the government. No the individual. We do not have Pre crime in the US. If a gun owner is dangerous and if he has broken laws, then yes; he, through his actions, relinquishes some of his Rights. If he has not broken our laws, then his guns must stay put.
Taking someone's property without due process is 100% unconstitutional.. I dont need scotus to tell me that, I have the 4th and 5th amendment to tell me
I am afraid to say, it does not work that way. Knowing something and being able to use your Rights are two, completely different things.
Let me throw something out at you...
You have the 2A as we all do.
When was the last time you went into a store and bought a gun without a background check?
Scenario....
You go to buy a gun, guy says "okay, lets get that check complete". You say, "NO!, I have a Constitutional Right to bear arms". The clerk says,
okay, no problem".
Um, no.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
GP, taking someone’s guns away is an infringement. No ifs, ands, or, buts about it. The definition of infringement is pretty clear.
And that's unconstitutional.. when have I ever said that background checks are constitutional
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
That BGC is unconstitutional but we cannot do anything about it.
We could try and fight it but thanks to the NRA and fucking turncoat "I support the 2a but" crowd it was passed in 1993 and here we are today
Holy shit, I get that. Why the fuck are so many here so fucking thick?
Let me come up with a different situation...
Someone that does not like you calls the Police or the courts and files paperwork needed to get a Red Flag order against you. Judge signs that order and turns the warrant over to the Police; Police arrive to take your guns. You respond with "Sorry, cannot have them, it is a violation of my Rights" You think the Police are going to leave empty handed?
I know all of our Rights, know them and being to exercise them is two different things.
What I believe in not relevant. I do not have the power to rule Constitutionality!
Can you read the constitution?
Do you think they are? I find them to be a huge infringement!