Buffalo Police Officers Cleared of All Charges

[stokes]

See what I did there? Please explain how it's any different. The "people" have the rights. Not the establishment bureaucrats.

See what you did where?How what is "any different"? Sorry, nit following what you're trying to say

 

[dwa12479]

Good, no sympathy for this POS professional agitator. He played a stupid game, and win his stupid prize.

 

[GOPerfect]

Instead of pushing him, wouldn't it just be easier to affect an arrest with the officers at the back?

Again, I'm not saying they're criminals or they intended to hurt anyone. I just see that video and think "There's gotta be a better way."

He was a combatant and was treated as such.

All that happened to him was his doing.

 

[spat]

Instead of pushing him, wouldn't it just be easier to affect an arrest with the officers at the back?

Again, I'm not saying they're criminals or they intended to hurt anyone. I just see that video and think "There's gotta be a better way."

I've never been a fan of even the concept of "clear the sidewalk" or "orders to disburse" or even "curfew".

If there are people breaking the law, arrest them. Don't just make them leave. If they're not breaking the law, let them be.

 

[Mr. terzmo]

well...My 2 cents is the officer's had no business shoving the old man away....and the old guy should no of gotten in their face......and I feel the department and the union had a meeting and over charged the officers knowing they could not be convicted...A "felony" for shoving an old person must meet high standards to fly. This was fixed from the start..is My opinion

 

[drowhawk]

He was a combatant and was treated as such.

All that happened to him was his doing.

I gotta stop you right there. He was not combative. Defiant, yes. Combative, no.

I've never been a fan of even the concept of "clear the sidewalk" or "orders to disburse" or even "curfew".

If there are people breaking the law, arrest them. Don't just make them leave. If they're not breaking the law, let them be.

That's kinda what I'm saying. It's a sidewalk. He had every right to be there. He was not rioting. He was not being violent.

If he was violating a lawful order, arrest him. Pushing him was just dumb. It makes the officers look impatient and immature. It also makes the rest of the department look bad because as a civilian I see that conduct and think, "Is that how all BPD officers handle confrontations?"

 

[crunchberry]

Video of protestors confronting Mr. Gugino before the cops arrived.


"I think the countries going to collapse in months"

 

[dsdmmat]

Instead of pushing him, wouldn't it just be easier to affect an arrest with the officers at the back?

Again, I'm not saying they're criminals or they intended to hurt anyone. I just see that video and think "There's gotta be a better way."

If that was the TTP the protesters would be able to eliminate the effectiveness of the line.

Kind of like the way the Chinese wage war, wave after wave of expendables comes at you to make you use all of your ammo then the Soldier wave comes through and decimated your line.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Wouldn't doubt it's coming

It's too cold. Not riot season.

 

[drowhawk]

If that was the TTP the protesters would be able to eliminate the effectiveness of the line.

Kind of like the way the Chinese wage war, wave after wave of expendables comes at you to make you use all of your ammo then the Soldier wave comes through and decimated your line.

This wasn't a group of protestors. This wasn't a group of rioters. Most importantly, it was not a group of enemy combatants. This was a citizen on public property. A singular citizen.

 

[crunchberry]

This wasn't a group of protestors. This wasn't a group of rioters. Most importantly, it was not a group of enemy combatants. This was a citizen on public property. A singular citizen.

Did you watch video? There was a protest. There were many protestors. He was involved in the protest in some way. He was not a random citizen going about his business.

 

[Chevusa]

This wasn't a group of protestors. This wasn't a group of rioters. Most importantly, it was not a group of enemy combatants. This was a citizen on public property. A singular citizen.

A “citizen” with a record for causing trouble a mile long. Oh yeah. He was also committing a crime at the time of incident.

 

[stokes]

He was not a random citizen going about his business.

He was a protester trying to obstruct the police from doing their job during a riot.It was also said he was trying to key the cops radio so they could copy the frequency or some such.He got off easy, he shoulda been given a cocobolo shampoo.

 

[drowhawk]

A “citizen” with a record for causing trouble a mile long. Oh yeah. He was also committing a crime at the time of incident.

Awesome. Arrest him.

 

[spat]

If that was the TTP the protesters would be able to eliminate the effectiveness of the line.

Kind of like the way the Chinese wage war, wave after wave of expendables comes at you to make you use all of your ammo then the Soldier wave comes through and decimated your line.

If they were arrested and charged with a real crime, there wouldn't *be* waves and waves of them.

The might manage it for the first protest, but by the second they'd all (still) be in jail.

This crap would have lasted 2 days instead of all summer.

And no, the answer "We can't hold them" is not an excuse. If that's the problem, you fix the problem, or you say "fuck it, let them riot". You don't say "well, we can't fix the real problem, so we're going to BS around with other crap".

 

[dsdmmat]

If they were arrested and charged with a real crime, there wouldn't *be* waves and waves of them.

The might manage it for the first protest, but by the second they'd all (still) be in jail.

This crap would have lasted 2 days instead of all summer.

And no, the answer "We can't hold them" is not an excuse. If that's the problem, you fix the problem, or you say "fuck it, let them riot". You don't say "well, we can't fix the real problem, so we're going to BS around with other crap".

When the protestors out number the cops 10 to 1 it only take a few useful idiots to reduce the effectiveness of a line when they become preoccupied with protestors. One protestor temporarily takes 2-3 cops to deal with. Which is why you don’t arrest everyone in the way. You take out the problem and keep the line moving. If you take everyone you encounter you eventually loose enough manpower and become combat ineffective.

 

[spat]

When the protestors out number the cops 10 to 1 it only take a few useful idiots to reduce the effectiveness of a line when they become preoccupied with protestors. One protestor temporarily takes 2-3 cops to deal with. Which is why you don’t arrest everyone in the way. You take out the problem and keep the line moving. If you take everyone you encounter you eventually loose enough manpower and become combat ineffective.

If you don't arrest all the law breakers (and keep them there) you will be back out there tomorrow.

Better to arrest 10% the first night. I bet most of the rest don't show the next time. Especially when they find out their buddies are still in jail.

We saw plain evidence all summer that the existing plan is ineffective.

 

[dsdmmat]

If you don't arrest all the law breakers (and keep them there) you will be back out there tomorrow.

Better to arrest 10% the first night. I bet most of the rest don't show the next time. Especially when they find out their buddies are still in jail.

We saw plain evidence all summer that the existing plan is ineffective.

They were in a position of between a rock and a hard place. They arrest them and the shit weasels in charge of the political system let them out immediately. Everything that happened this past summer was according to the Democratic plan.

 

[GOPerfect]

I gotta stop you right there. He was not combative. Defiant, yes. Combative, no.


That's kinda what I'm saying. It's a sidewalk. He had every right to be there. He was not rioting. He was not being violent.

If he was violating a lawful order, arrest him. Pushing him was just dumb. It makes the officers look impatient and immature. It also makes the rest of the department look bad because as a civilian I see that conduct and think, "Is that how all BPD officers handle confrontations?"

He put his hands on a cop. Period!!

 

[spat]

They were in a position of between a rock and a hard place. They arrest them and the shit weasels in charge of the political system let them out immediately. Everything that happened this past summer was according to the Democratic plan.

If the shitweasels are going to let them out anyway, then you're just wasting your time.

Might as well just stay home and let the place burn down.

 

[FRB]

Okay but I'm not talking about BLM. I'm talking about this specific scenario.

Here's the thing: In your made up construction site scenario, the person who fell and got hurt would be able to sue and win. Not saying I agree with it but that is the reality. If you fall through my skylight onto a sharp corner of my kitchen counter as you are attempting a burglary, you can sue for the injuries in NY. Again, I don't agree with it. That's the reality.

If he was purposely obstructing their way, he should have been arrested and charged as such. There were enough officers to keep him under control without injuring. It's just super unprofessional on BPD's part. Pushing is what you do in high school. If he's obstructing, arrest him and take him away. Pushing him just feeds into the narrative they are trying to paint on LEO's. And it's working.

As far as me getting in deeper trouble, I was referring to using non-deadly force to prevent a crime from occurring. For example, I can use non-deadly force to remove a trespasser from my land. BUT if that force leads to an injury, that person has every right to sue me. And I can even be charged criminally at that point if it was excessive.

I'm very much a "punishment should fit the crime" type of person and I don't think the punishment of being pushed fit the crime of being an asshole. You're an asshole that's going to inconvenience us? Great. We're going to inconvenience you and make an arrest. The media would have NO narrative to perpetuate if they made better decisions.

Why are you always on the wrong side of arguments here.... there was nothing unprofessional let alone super unprofessional in how the BPD acted. They pushed him away because he was tryign to scan their radios!

"If you fall through my skylight onto a sharp corner of my kitchen counter as you are attempting a burglary, you can sue for the injuries in NY. Again, I don't agree with it. That's the reality."

Hogwash & Poppycock! You must have a terrible lawyer.

 

[drowhawk]

Why are you always in the wrong side of arguments here.... there was nothing unprofessional let alone super unprofessional in how the BPD acted. They pushed him away because he was tryign to scan their radios!

"If you fall through my skylight onto a sharp corner of my kitchen counter as you are attempting a burglary, you can sue for the injuries in NY. Again, I don't agree with it. That's the reality."

Hogwash & Poppycock!

Opinions are like elbows, right?

If he was committing a crime, arrest him.

 

[dsdmmat]

If the shitweasels are going to let them out anyway, then you're just wasting your time.

Might as well just stay home and let the place burn down.

That is what a lot of the cities across the country did. They told their police to stand down and only when it threatened their political futures the police were deployed to push the rioters back.

 

[spat]

That is what a lot of the cities across the country did. They told their police to stand down and only when it threatened their political futures the police were deployed to push the rioters back.

If the people in charge of the city are on the side of the rioters you really only have 3 options.

Get out of the way and let them burn it down.

Change the people in charge

Say "fuck these rules" and go all vigilante.

Those last 2 could be combined, but it gets real messy then.....


Trying to stop them while also following the orders of the people who don't want them stopped is a fools errand.

 

[GOPerfect]

You can always tell the people that have never been in the middle of one of these types of events....

 

[spat]

You can always tell the people that have never been in the middle of one of these types of events....

Why would anyone want to be in the middle of one of these events ?

If you find yourself facing down an irrational mob with both hands tied behind your back by your superiors it's time to seriously question your life choices.

 

[GOPerfect]

Why would anyone want to be in the middle of one of these events ?

If you find yourself facing down an irrational mob with both hands tied behind your back by your superiors it's time to seriously question your life choices.

I did not say they would want to be in the middle.

I was in the thick of the Riots/Protests when they were in Buffalo, three days straight. Not by choice.

While it was kind of fun, it is not all peaches and cream.

Similar to war. When I hear people talk about "crimes" and over the top reactions to events that occur in wartime, I have to ask them, "Were you ever in a war type situation?"

In regards to this old man, people saying this should have been done or that should have been done, they are talking without real knowledge. People talking out their asses using nothing but feelings and ignorance.

 

[spat]

I did not say they would want to be in the middle.

I was in the thick of the Riots/Protests when they were in Buffalo, three days straight. Not by choice.

While it was kind of fun, it is not all peaches and cream.

Similar to war. When I hear people talk about "crimes" and over the top reactions to events that occur in wartime, I have to ask them, "Were you ever in a war type situation?"

In regards to this old man, people saying this should have been done or that should have been done, they are talking without real knowledge. People talking out their asses using nothing but feelings and ignorance.

I am saying with the support you guys get from the top you should have all just said "no thanks".

If you know you'll need to make 1000 arrests to get all the bad guys, then pull in as many officers as it takes from surrounding departments.

That's the sort of thing your union should be doing.

"Sorry, if those are the ROE for this operation, we will not be participating, maybe you should send the social workers"

 

[Toecutter]

If the police didn't break the law in the first place this would have never happened.
I dont agree with BLM but as long as they were protesting not damaging property or hurting people leave them be.

 

[GOPerfect]

If the police didn't break the law in the first place this would have never happened.
I dont agree with BLM but as long as they were protesting not damaging property or hurting people leave them be.

I'll bite....

Which laws did the Police break? Just curious of your opinion.