Buffalo Police Officers Cleared of All Charges

[Toecutter]

I'll bite....

Which laws did the Police break? Just curious of your opinion.

First amendment.
If they are protesting they should be left alone regardless of why are protesting. Police shouldn't get involved in these things in the first place. Sit back observe and arrest people who actually break the law . Showing up in armor and shoving people out of a public square was unwarranted.

At the time there was BLM actually rioting elsewhere in other cities. I have a feeling emotion was involve in this action.

Just my 2 cents I wasn't there and dont know everything that was going in at the time.

 

[GOPerfect]

The First Amendment is absolute. Within the amendment there are some clear words that limit certain actions of freedoms.

The words....“the right of the people peaceably to assemble.” That means law enforcement may break up any gathering that has turned violent or raises a “clear and present danger” of violence or disorder (Cantwell v. Connecticut, 310 U.S. 296 (1940)). The “clear and present danger” standard is a particularly high hurdle for government officials to overcome if they want to prevent planned gatherings ahead of time.

This always becomes tricky, in who's eyes does a gathering or a protest become "not Peaceful"?

 

[spat]

The First Amendment is absolute. Within the amendment there are some clear words that limit certain actions of freedoms.

The words....“the right of the people peaceably to assemble.” That means law enforcement may break up any gathering that has turned violent or raises a “clear and present danger” of violence or disorder (Cantwell v. Connecticut, 310 U.S. 296 (1940)). The “clear and present danger” standard is a particularly high hurdle for government officials to overcome if they want to prevent planned gatherings ahead of time.

This always becomes tricky, in who's eyes does a gathering or a protest become "not Peaceful"?

I disagree.

I don't believe that gives the government the right to "break up" any assembly, ever.

You may arrest any individuals who are violating a law (and this would include any who try to interfere with another arrest).

If enough of them are arrested, perhaps the assembly will cease to exist.

But the 1A forbids you from acting with the sole intention of *breaking up* the assembly.

What is the point of just breaking it up anyway ? Do you want all the criminals to just go home, free of consequences for their crimes, and free to pillage another day ?

 

[FRB]

Do curfews trump the right to protest?

 

[GOPerfect]

I disagree.

I don't believe that gives the government the right to "break up" any assembly, ever.

You may arrest any individuals who are violating a law (and this would include any who try to interfere with another arrest).

If enough of them are arrested, perhaps the assembly will cease to exist.

But the 1A forbids you from acting with the sole intention of *breaking up* the assembly.

What is the point of just breaking it up anyway ? Do you want all the criminals to just go home, free of consequences for their crimes, and free to pillage another day ?

I'll give an example.

One of the nights of the riots here in Buffalo, my vehicle was surrounded by about 500 people. Some of them were throwing rocks Stones bricks and Frozen water bottles at my vehicle. all of the windows were smashed headlights were blown and a tire was popped.

Virtually impossible to figure out who the bad guys were. Impossible to know who actually destroyed my vehicle. The only thing that could be done, was to send in a s*** ton of officers and disperse all of the people.

Arresting the guilty is not always possible

 

[GOPerfect]

Do curfews trump the right to protest?

Yes

 

[spat]

I'll give an example.

One of the nights of the riots here in Buffalo, my vehicle was surrounded by about 500 people. Some of them were throwing rocks Stones bricks and Frozen water bottles at my vehicle. all of the windows were smashed headlights were blown and a tire was popped.

Virtually impossible to figure out who the bad guys were. Impossible to know who actually destroyed my vehicle. The only thing that could be done, was to send in a s*** ton of officers and disperse all of the people.

Arresting the guilty is not always possible

Everyone who threw a brick was assaulting you with a deadly weapon. You would have been perfectly justified in shooting them in the head IMHO. But only the guys who threw the bricks.

I bet the problem would have ended right then and not dragged on for the rest of the summer.

If the leaders weren't going to approve those ROE, then you shouldn't have been there at all.

I'd even be OK with snipers who would drop anyone who threw one in their spot.

 

[spat]

Yes

I must have missed that line in the 1A.

 

[Chevusa]

People talking out their asses using nothing but feelings and ignorance.

Seems to be a trend around here...

 

[GOPerfect]

I must have missed that line in the 1A.

The words in the first do indeed have meanings. Court rulings hold weight in the US.

 

[GOPerfect]

Everyone who threw a brick was assaulting you with a deadly weapon. You would have been perfectly justified in shooting them in the head IMHO. But only the guys who threw the bricks.

I bet the problem would have ended right then and not dragged on for the rest of the summer.

If the leaders weren't going to approve those ROE, then you shouldn't have been there at all.

I'd even be OK with snipers who would drop anyone who threw one in their spot.

What you say, I agree with, but not at all viable.

 

[spat]

What you say, I agree with, but not at all viable.

Then let the city burn until they decide it is viable.

 

[dwa12479]

Everyone who threw a brick was assaulting you with a deadly weapon. You would have been perfectly justified in shooting them in the head IMHO. But only the guys who threw the bricks.

I bet the problem would have ended right then and not dragged on for the rest of the summer.

If the leaders weren't going to approve those ROE, then you shouldn't have been there at all.

I'd even be OK with snipers who would drop anyone who threw one in their spot.

Yep, and just like many, many other justified shootings... it's another excuse to riot. Thereby exacerbating the problem. Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

[spat]

The words in the first do indeed have meanings. Court rulings hold weight in the US.

The courts say a lot of things. Anyone on this site should recognize they get it wrong plenty often, especially when it comes to what the constitution prohibits government from doing.

Look at the state of "law and order" today. It's a farce.

 

[SonOfSun]

I was in the thick of the Riots/Protests when they were in Buffalo, three days straight. Not by choice.

You always have a choice.

 

[FRB]

Yes

I agree..... safety of the citizens is the number one priority of government and law enforcement.

 

[drowhawk]

I agree..... safety of the citizens is the number one priority of government and law enforcement.

What about the safety of the guy they pushed and was injured as a result? He's a citizen too.

 

[stokes]

What about the safety of the guy they pushed and was injured as a result? He's a citizen too.

He put his own safety at risk by opposing and trying to put his hands on the officer.

 

[drowhawk]

He put his own safety at risk by opposing and trying to put his hands on the officer.

I put my own safety at risk just by getting in a motor vehicle. Does that mean I should be left to die if I am trapped in my vehicle?

 

[stokes]

I put my own safety at risk just by getting in a motor vehicle. Does that mean I should be left to die if I am trapped in my vehicle?

Getting in a motor vehicle is a legal activity,OGA is not.You dont see a difference?

 

[drowhawk]

Getting in a motor vehicle is a legal activity,OGA is not.You dont see a difference?

Should those who commit crimes be arrested?

 

[GOPerfect]

What about the safety of the guy they pushed and was injured as a result? He's a citizen too.

He put himself in harm's way....

 

[GOPerfect]

I put my own safety at risk just by getting in a motor vehicle. Does that mean I should be left to die if I am trapped in my vehicle?

If no one is there to assist you? Yeah.

 

[spat]

I put my own safety at risk just by getting in a motor vehicle. Does that mean I should be left to die if I am trapped in my vehicle?

Was he left to die on the sidewalk ?

IIRC he was rendered appropriate medical aid in a timely manner.

 

[GOPerfect]

For all that keep saying these people should be arrested...

In a perfect, law and order filled world, that would be great. It is absolutely impossible to arrest all that commit the crimes at these types of events.

There are many times, most actually, that the Rioters and the protesters outnumber the Police 50 to 1. You cannot arrest all that are guilty. For the safety of the innocent sometimes these protests need to be broken up.

In regards to this piece of shit agitator, there were 12 warnings given to all that were in the area to disperse. They were given more than an hours warning that the lines were going to begin. Those that decided to stay, fight the Police put themselves in harms way.

I will not defend them, sometimes I cheer them on, but if they get hurt, they do so by their own choice.

This matters none of they are on this side or that side of ideals, I agree with certain fights and protests, even the groups that I support; if they get hurt, it is on them. Not the Police or the Military if they are called. People make choices and they need to deal with those choices.

 

[spat]

For all that keep saying these people should be arrested...

In a perfect, law and order filled world, that would be great. It is absolutely impossible to arrest all that commit the crimes at these types of events.

There are many times, most actually, that the Rioters and the protesters outnumber the Police 50 to 1. You cannot arrest all that are guilty. For the safety of the innocent sometimes these protests need to be broken up.

In regards to this piece of shit agitator, there were 12 warnings given to all that were in the area to disperse. They were given more than an hours warning that the lines were going to begin. Those that decided to stay, fight the Police put themselves in harms way.

I will not defend them, sometimes I cheer them on, but if they get hurt, they do so by their own choice.

This matters none of they are on this side or that side of ideals, I agree with certain fights and protests, even the groups that I support; if they get hurt, it is on them. Not the Police or the Military if they are called. People make choices and they need to deal with those choices.

I realize it's not possible to arrest them all.

But start arresting them and get as many as you can (just the law breakers though).

If you only get 5% that's fine. That's 5% you won't see tomorrow night.

If they'll be back on the street by then, then just stay home. You're acting even dumber than the party bus guys waving the guns around and wondering why they got arrested.

Odds are though, those 5% arrests will probably disburse the crowd more effectively than the pepper spray.

 

[GOPerfect]

I realize it's not possible to arrest them all.

But start arresting them and get as many as you can (just the law breakers though).

If you only get 5% that's fine. That's 5% you won't see tomorrow night.

If they'll be back on the street by then, then just stay home. You're acting even dumber than the party bus guys waving the guns around and wondering why they got arrested.

Odds are though, those 5% arrests will probably disburse the crowd more effectively than the pepper spray.

Nope. The more that are arrested, the more emboldened these people become.

They are not normal...

 

[spat]

Nope. The more that are arrested, the more emboldened these people become.

They are not normal...

That only happens because they know they will be out in 2 hours with no further consequences and someone else is paying the bill.

If they stayed locked up for a week, and then were prosecuted swiftly and sentenced to real prison time for their crimes that would not be the case.

If the penalty for violating SAFE was a 2 hour break that someone else paid for, how many of us would even bother swapping stocks ?

 

[stokes]

That only happens because they know they will be out in 2 hours with no further consequences and someone else is paying the bill.

If they stayed locked up for a week, and then were prosecuted swiftly and sentenced to real prison time for their crimes that would not be the case.

If the penalty for violating SAFE was a 2 hour break that someone else paid for, how many of us would even bother swapping stocks ?

And just how is that the fault of the police?

 

[spat]

And just how is that the fault of the police?

They continue to show up.

"Play stupid games..."