Bullet button legality in NYS

[Marine Cpl]

Will, literally nobody is agreeing with what you're going on about though? We aren't talking about how easily you can jack up and remove a magazine lock, or fuck up members rifles to stuff magazine in it. The discussion was about a fixed magazine being legal by using a part that keeps the magazine from coming out to allow another magazine to be inserted.

I could care less who agrees with me or doesn't. I didn't write the law. It was written poorly and that is what I'm trying to explain to you hard heads. California defines everything. They define what a pistol grip is, what is a fixed magazine, ect. That is why workarounds are easily made there and not here. NY didn't define anything. That is why it is a cluster fuck and the fixed mag work around is not legal unless permanent.

And please don't say permanence is not in the law. We know. There is nothing in the law at all accept the ability to accept a detachable magazine.

 

[Marine Cpl]

i think your referring to the New York reload .. that was having 5 or more revolvers on you .. shoot n drop , grab a new one ..

I think this is the NY 7. The 10 came later. That is a fixed mag rifle.

I'm going to become an attorney for Dark Storm Industries.

 

[Acer-m14]

 

[FrankenCub]

This whole thread.

 

[spat]

No. If it's permanently in there and I cannot remove it without destroy the whole shebang, it cannot accept another one.

An AR will work fine after an overnight soak in dichloromethane, as long as you have dont have any critical plastic bits, and don't mind a little refinishing. Cleanest it'll ever be .

 

[Marine Cpl]

This whole thread.

 

[Marine Cpl]

An AR will work fine after an overnight soak in dichloromethane, as long as you have dont have any critical plastic bits, and don't mind a little refinishing. Cleanest it'll ever be .

In that case. Sure. Why not?

 

[FrankenCub]

At this point just brew your AR what ever flavor you feel safest at, we're NEVER going to get a legal definition of what will be ok to use.

 

[gqllc007]

Ok Will...Here is an EASY one for you to understand. The SAFE act says you also can't have a collapsible stock. So when you purchase an AR15 with a collapsible stock they pin the stock for you (either LGS, gunsmith or manufacturer) . With your logic the law still states that the stock is still COLLAPSIBLE because it was prior to pinning it. All you do is drill out the pin and bingo you have a collapsible stock. So does that make the millions of pinned collapsible stocks illegal? NO of course not. And if you don't know where the pin is just unscrew the castle nut and replace the buffer tube and collapsible stock. It is the same with the fixed mag. It is the SAME principle. This principle applies to the muzzle thread protector, threaded barrel, pistol grip like the spur, thordson stock, collapsible stock. Your logic is flawed. If a Carbine with a collapsible stock is pinned and you remove the pin YOU are creating an illegal rifle according to the safe act.
What the SAFE act did state was ANY and ALL large capacity feeding devices prior to and post too the SAFE act are now illegal. So even prebans were no longer legal. That's clearly written.
Please don't tell us you are a liberal and believe guns and manufacturers kill people and not the person pulling the trigger because your arguments are libertard.
Apparently a NYS Judge who abides by the safe act laws and interprets them feels that the fixed mag is indeed a fixed mag according to the SAFE act.

 

[gqllc007]

On a side note for more debate
Let's say you purchased an AR15 prior to the safe act and post ban which allowed a muzzle brake and a pinned collapsible stock.
Let's say you registered that AR15 with the state as it was in a legal configuration when you purchased it.
Can you unpin the stock as it is now a registered assault weapon?
Does it state anywhere in the SAFE act that you can't do that?
If it was an A2 rifle stock can you now put on a collapsible stock?
Inquiring minds want to know!!

 

[Jem45472]

AR-15 MAGAZINE LOCK

no spring, acts just like a Tnut. when unscrewed you can pull the magazine but without screwing it back in another magazine will not seat or stay.
So removable? yes. Detachable? no.

This is what I'm using. Detachable magazine? Yes-with tools. Able to accept a detachable magazine? No- not without putting it back together with tools.

 

[Jem45472]

This 6 page argument can easily be turned around into FEATURELESS LEGALITY IN NY.

Who wants to go first? Even a featureless rifle can be turned into a full fledged baby killing machine in a matter of minutes with common hand tools. It's no different than arguing the legality of a fixed mag. Do whatever you want.

 

[freddy]

This 6 page argument can easily be turned around into FEATURELESS LEGALITY IN NY.

Who wants to go first? Even a featureless rifle can be turned into a full fledged baby killing machine in a matter of minutes with common hand tools. It's no different than arguing the legality of a fixed mag. Do whatever you want.

How about it Will? The word 'ability' is the core of your arguement against fixed mag legality, yes?

 

[freddy]

Again. It can still be removed and another one attached. I can go on all day. Quote the bullet guy mag lock next. That one can be removed too.

Can we get pics, video, or link to this mag lock @Bullet Guy ?

 

[Airborneguy]

No. A detachable magazine is one that is designed to be detached for reloading and not replacement or maintenance.

A detachable magazine is one that comes off, no matter the purpose.

That was my point above. Legally, detachable means what detachable means in the dictionary, not what you think it means when you add minutiae and functional technicalities to the definition.

 

[Airborneguy]

make a lower with a 10 rnd capacity , flat bottom milling .. so the bottom is still part of the cast .. i'll stop .. FUAC might see ..

Not a bad idea at all.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

Can we get pics, video, or link to this mag lock @Bullet Guy ?

What mag lock?

 

[Eddie Gunks]

On a side note for more debate
Let's say you purchased an AR15 prior to the safe act and post ban which allowed a muzzle brake and a pinned collapsible stock.
Let's say you registered that AR15 with the state as it was in a legal configuration when you purchased it.
Can you unpin the stock as it is now a registered assault weapon?
Does it state anywhere in the SAFE act that you can't do that?
If it was an A2 rifle stock can you now put on a collapsible stock?
Inquiring minds want to know!!

If it is registered you can have any and all features! That is the entire reason for the registration.

 

[Marine Cpl]

How about it Will? The word 'ability' is the core of your arguement against fixed mag legality, yes?

Yes. And others are still arguing the point that has been explained over and over. For the millionth time, the law doesn't say ability to collapse a stock or ability to add a grip.

Someone with no argument will say this again. Why? Because they don't read. It also does not mention tools needed like California's law did.

@Jem45472 , @gqllc007

 

[freddy]

What mag lock?

The one Willjr75 mentioned. I underlined the text for you.

 

[Marine Cpl]

You're still construing the context of "capability" definition as your own, in a future tense only illegal modification that doesn't exist, but that would switch functionality and reclassify the firearm in NYS depending on the various actions you made. If they only cared about what you could do with a rifle in future tense, and how it could be reclassified in the future, nothing would be legal under the safe act because it's all so easy to change. What the rifles current capabilities are, are what it can do with whatever mechanical functions it has to operate with. The intervention required to change to these parts are not being regulated at all by law. Since you have options to build a rifle in different ways, and they ALLOW changes to be made under the safe act, the locks meet the vague interpretation to the majority.


This is why they said under the safe act in the frequently asked questions page that they recommend and will allow modifications to your firearms to make them legal so they're not reclassified as assault weapons. If you had an illegal detachable magazine under the safe act description, and locked the magazine so it cannot accept detachable magazines, then it didn't need to be registered anymore. If you change its profile, action, function, parts etc, It will be legal to own and sell. That's really what happened since 2013, and that's why people are selling them. The magazine locks were a simple idea to meet the criteria under the vague description. Quit telling people that they can't argue about the lack of permanent changes too, because that's so important in explaining to you why you're likely wrong about this. Not only do they not list that, but they also don't give a description of what would be permanent. Not necessarily a bad thing to think outside the box, (it's a good thing) but the interpretation doesn't even matter until something happens. If the description said something like, "capable of changing or switching or modifying back to accept a magazine", then we would be shit out of luck, but it doesn't. Geez.. Let's give them some more ideas though why don't we?

They only mention what state the rifle needs to be in to qualify as legal, and in which case it would be silly if they already allow switching other parts around for different variations of the rifle anyways. By amending silly bits over again, it would be too contradicting and confusing for them, and it clearly shows they didn't know what the fuck they were doing when they wrote it with errors and laws that were scrutinized already.


You can argue it for years and years, Meanwhile, people are using them and they're commonplace all around the state and in my opinion will become more and more accepting legality wise because of it. If they decide to change it, then NY will have to deal with it how they see fit, but until then it hasn't been an issue.

Again. The law doesn't say the ability for the rifle to be this or that or have this feature. Why do you guys keep trying to push that angle?

All it says is if it is semi automatic and has the ABILITY to accept a detachable magazine. That's it. It doesn't say the above and the ability to accept a pistol grip or bayonet lug. It's either semi automatic or it's not. If it is and has the ABILITY... well then now we have issues.

So yes. Any rifle has the ability to be sawed off to have a 10 inch barrel or the ability to be converted into full auto but the law doesn't address that. What you have on whatever configuration is what you have.

That is not the case though the detachable magazine issue. It clearly says that the semi auto rifle with features is an AW if it has the ability to accept detachable magazines.

I didn't write it. I'm just pointing out what it says. It's basic english. It's poorly written though unlike California's law that took into consideration true fixed mag rifles and provided definitions to prevent banning those. They even provided definitions for features. Grips, ect. That is all I'm saying. NY didn't define anything and because of that it creates a problem if you read and take the law literally which you are supposed to do.

Who will be the next guy to rehash this point again and say that you can change a rifle's configuration features. Yes you can.

 

[Uzi]

Again. The law doesn't say the ability for the rifle to be this or that or have this feature. Why do you guys keep trying to push that angle?

All it says is if it is semi automatic and has the ABILITY to accept a detachable magazine. That's it. It doesn't say the above and the ability to accept a pistol grip or bayonet lug.

So yes. Any rifle has the ability to be sawed off to have a 10 inch barrel or the ability to be converted into full auto but the law doesn't address that. What you have on whatever configuration is what you have.

That is not the case though the detachable magazine issue. It clearly says that the rifle with features is an AW if it has the ability to accept detachable magazines.

I didn't write it. I'm just pointing out what it says. It's basic english. It's poorly written though unlike California's law that took into consideration true fixed mag rifles and provided definitions. That is all.

Who will be the next guy to rehash this point again and say that you can change a rifle's configuration features. Yes you can.

Talk about walking over the points that I made. I just deleted it because I realized you were just going to do that again. This topic is silly at this point, I'm done with it. Peace!

 

[Marine Cpl]

Talk about walking over the points that I made. I just deleted it because I realized you were just going to do that again. This topic is silly at this point, I'm done with it. Peace!

What points? They are still in my quote of your post since you deleted it. All you are doing is arguing feature configurations again.

 

[Marine Cpl]

A detachable magazine is one that comes off, no matter the purpose.

That was my point above. Legally, detachable means what detachable means in the dictionary, not what you think it means when you add minutiae and functional technicalities to the definition.

That's the point I've been trying to make that you guys aren't getting. The law as written and taking literally as you are supposed to take it is a problem. We are just ignoring what it says because it's written poorly.

 

[gqllc007]

A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least one of the following military characteristics:

a. Folding or Telescoping Stock
b. Protruding Pistol Grip
c. Thumbhole Stock
d. Second Handgrip or Protruding Grip that can be held by non-shooting hand e. Bayonet Mount
f. Flash Suppressor g. Muzzle Brake
h. Muzzle Compensator
i. A threaded barrel designed to accommodate the above j. Grenade Launcher

Clearly since the mag is fixed it can't accept a detachable magazine. AND there is a law on the NYS Penal code about full auto, sawed off shotguns and not allowing A-I above. Your arguments make no sense of any kind even in plain English.
If your rifle has a detachable magazine then it can't have any of A-I
If your rifle doesn't have a detachable magazine such as a fixed magazine then it can have A-I
PLAIN ENGLISH FROM THE OXFORD DICTIONARY and ALL the other dictionaries

de·tach·a·ble
/dəˈtaCHəb(ə)l/
adjective

1. able to be removed or separated from something:

fixed
/fikst/
adjective

• 1. fastened securely in position: "a fixed iron ladder down the port side" synonyms: fastened, secure, fast, firm, riveted, moored, anchored
• fastened, attached, or placed so as to be firm and not readily movable; firmly implanted; stationary; rigid.

CLEARLY BY PLAIN ENGLISH DEFINITIONS YOUR INTERPRETATION IS WRONG

 

[gqllc007]

The law ONLY states PERMANENT in one category MAGAZINES
3. Permanently modifying it to reduce its capacity to 10 rounds or less.

SO IN PLAIN ENGLISH IT DOESN'T APPLY TO ANYTHING ELSE

 

[Marine Cpl]

@gqllc007, Ignore the numerous posts that say over and over that if it's temporarily fixed, it can be undone thus having the ability to accept.

You really can't understand that can you? Or is it that you don't want to? No matter how many different times you attempt this, you are just repeating the same point over and over in different words.

Again. It doesn't say the ability to add a pistol grip. It say the ability to accept a detachable magazine for the millionth time. A rifle with a mag lock still had the ability to accept a detachable magazine unless somehow it is fixed in a way that is permanent.

And now you want to rehash the permanence not in the law thing again that was explained to you already. No it's not in the law. But if you understand english, there is no way to make a semi automatic rifle not able to accept a detachable magazine unless you somehow make it impossible. To make it impossible, how will you go about doing that? Answer.. Somehow make the magazine never able to come out. What does that mean? Make it permanently in there.

They don't have to tell you that. The law is written poorly. Read it with a unbiased mind and tell me where it says that you can fix a magazine temporarily with parts and tools. No matter what you put on there, your rifle still has the ability to accept a detachable magazine. Period.

 

[gqllc007]

You are wrong. Simple as that. Nowhere in the law does it say permanent and in clear plain English the word fixed does not mean permanent. You can argue your invalid points until you are blue in the face. You are clearly wrong. Plain English. YOU ARE WRONG. LMAO. IN CASE YOU DONT KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS. IN PLANE ENGLISH
LAUGHING MY ASS OFF.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Show

You are wrong. Simple as that. Nowhere in the law does it say permanent and in clear plain English the word fixed does not mean permanent. You can argue your invalid points until you are blue in the face. You are clearly wrong. Plain English. YOU ARE WRONG. LMAO. IN CASE YOU DONT KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS. IN PLANE ENGLISH
LAUGHING MY ASS OFF.

Show me where in the law it says fixed magazine. I'll give you an hour to find it.

 

[gqllc007]

Show

Show me where in the law it says fixed magazine. I'll give you an hour to find it.

Show me where it says permanent? I will give you a month. When a magazine is not detachable it is fixed. Plain English