Bullet button legality in NYS

[Marine Cpl]

"The Sounds of Silence".

Ok

 

[nortatoga]

Ok

Remember your on ignore?

 

[SteyrAug]

Really ? By anyone I should care about ? SadSack Willie ? What a loss to the discussion ..... tosses out BS he cannot back up. How did CNN miss him ?

 

[Chuck D]

Just some info I paid an Attorney to advise me on way back in the day....

1. Permanent is NOT used in the Safe Act pertaining to ANYTHING but magazine capacity restrictions (modifying a mag to hold only 10 rounds of ammo).
2. The BB and the MR2 device are not legal work around because the rifle, either with a tool (bullet tip) or by separating the upper and lower receivers STILL accepts a detachable magazine. I don't care what you can and can't do to an SKS, we're not talking about SKS's, were talking about AR's.
3. In order to keep all your "evil features" and avoid registration (which you can no longer do) you have to fix the mag to the rifle. Cheapest way around doing that is the DD Ranch button assembly. The NYSP have "unofficially" blessed it by allowing rifles to be sold with it installed.
4. The other way to beat the system is to go 100% featureless. Thordsen stock, no muzzle device or use a faux muzzle device and pin/weld it on.
5. If you're waiting for an official "letter" from a Governmental authority to CLEARLY spell out what's legal and illegal you have a LONG wait. It's never going to happen.

This law was purposely designed to confuse and entrap people. For 4 years now we're attempted to introduce common sense to a situation where common sense doesn't apply. Want to KNOW what's legal and illegal, take a good look at what's on dealers shelves and copy the same script. If you make it hard enough and expensive enough to buy an AR, most people will forego the purchase and buy something else. Mission accomplished.

That way you stand a fighting chance in Court once you get pinched by Andy's Secret Police.

Anything other than the above is guesswork, hope, and conjecture.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Really ? By anyone I should care about ? SadSack Willie ? What a loss to the discussion ..... tosses out BS he cannot back up. How did CNN miss him ?

Right.

 

[Marine Cpl]

If you look at California's law, they define what a fixed magazine is and they even say that the AWB doesn't pertain to rifles with fixed magazines.

Previous AWB bills here in NY along with initial drafts of the Safe Act had that language of requiring tools to remove the magazine. It was removed however on final draft. Why? Because they didn't want us to be fixing magazines like Californians were doing to skirt the law.

They didn't define pistol grips either because Californians used the definition's language to skirt those too. They figured if they didn't define those, you couldn't fix the magazine or go featureless without a grip.

There end goal was to completely ban them with no workarounds. Little did they know about the upcoming Spur grip or stock that isn't a grip..

So you can say that you are fixing a magazine and are legal. You can also say that they sell them that way and the NYSP blessed them. None of that matters. Ask the guy that the Tresmond's were representing if the MR2 blessing from the NYSP got him clean off. If I remember correctly (I might be wrong since I haven't gone to that site in a while) he was forced to plead to a lesser charge and his rifle was never returned to him even though the Tresmond's and Bombardo swore they were going to get his rifle back.

So say what you want to say. If the rifle's magazine can be removed and can accept another one with or without tools (they struck that language from the law on purpose) you can be charged with it all the way depending on the DA or forced to plea out depending on the DA. Either way, you aren't getting it back unless the charges are dropped.

That's not the case however if you turn your rifle into an exact featureless version just like a Mini 14 Ranch.

 

[SteyrAug]

The law is on the books.

The tacit acceptance of DD's fixed magazines by the State's supreme law enforcement group (NYSP) would carry a lot of weight were anyone hauled in.

The NRA and other progun groups would love this as a rest case to invalidate the SAFE act. That may be why the Nazis are playing hands off.

The tide on gun control has changed a whole lot in the past 20 years. Any state or local offical who runs their mouth about gun control will no longer get a free ride.

If by some act of God, nationwide reciprocity and the safe hearing acts pass, NY and other fascist States will be in the crosshairs of both the Feds as well as all companies/organizations who want those laws enacted and applied to all.

The real wild card is a major terrorist slaughter launched by one of the criminal protected by these moron sanctuary cities.

Did anyone watch the new show BREAKTHROUGH on NGC the other night. The subject was drones .... the kind any of us can buy. One of the possible (today) events was a mass attack by automonous drones (preprogrammed with a GPS route) carrying bad stuff flying over a major outdoor event. 10s of thousand killed.
A drone has already been landed on the lawn at the Japanese PM's house carrying radiological material. Watch the show .... it will get your attention !

 

[Chuck D]

If you look at California's law, they define what a fixed magazine is and they even say that the AWB doesn't pertain to rifles with fixed magazines.

Previous AWB bills here in NY along with initial drafts of the Safe Act had that language of requiring tools to remove the magazine. It was removed however on final draft. Why? Because they didn't want us to be fixing magazines like Californians were doing to skirt the law.

They didn't define pistol grips either because Californians used the definition's language to skirt those too. They figured if they didn't define those, you couldn't fix the magazine or go featureless without a grip.

There end goal was to completely ban them with no workarounds. Little did they know about the upcoming Spur grip or stock that isn't a grip..

So you can say that you are fixing a magazine and are legal. You can also say that they sell them that way and the NYSP blessed them. None of that matters. Ask the guy that the Tresmond's were representing if the MR2 blessing from the NYSP got him clean off. If I remember correctly (I might be wrong since I haven't gone to that site in a while) he was forced to plead to a lesser charge and his rifle was never returned to him even though the Tresmond's and Bombardo swore they were going to get his rifle back.

You're taking liberty here with 2 important matters...

One, NYSP never "blessed" anything officially. Everyone knows that. Their "tacit" approval with epoxied bullet buttons, DD Ranch type devices, and the Thordsen stock speaks volumes in regards to what they are CURRENTLY willing to accept. To ignore or gloss that fact over is to your detriment.

Secondly, I wouldn't be holding ANY actions taken by the Tresmonds or Bombardo as gospel. The Attorney I consulted with dared say that in light of the charges you'd face, the time and financial expenditures you'd incur, and the damage to your credibility and good name eventually you'd be steered towards taking a plea deal. You'd lose your rifle, some self respect, and a boatload of money but you'd stay out of jail and THAT'S what Defense Attorneys do....keep you out of jail.

The real problem here is there are NO concrete answers to the questions we have. The best method of approach is to adopt the same approach NY FFL's have with the options available that will allow a rifle to be sold retail by a dealer.

 

[Marine Cpl]

The law is on the books.

The tacit acceptance of DD's fixed magazines by the State's supreme law enforcement group (NYSP) would carry a lot of weight were anyone hauled in.

The NRA and other progun groups would love this as a rest case to invalidate the SAFE act. That may be why the Nazis are playing hands off.

The tide on gun control has changed a whole lot in the past 20 years. Any state or local offical who runs their mouth about gun control will no longer get a free ride.

If by some act of God, nationwide reciprocity and the safe hearing acts pass, NY and other fascist States will be in the crosshairs of both the Feds as well as all companies/organizations who want those laws enacted and applied to all.

The real wild card is a major terrorist slaughter launched by one of the criminal protected by these moron sanctuary cities.

Did anyone watch the new show BREAKTHROUGH on NGC the other night. The subject was drones .... the kind any of us can buy. One of the possible (today) events was a mass attack by automonous drones (preprogrammed with a GPS route) carrying bad stuff flying over a major outdoor event. 10s of thousand killed.
A drone has already been landed on the lawn at the Japanese PM's house carrying radiological material. Watch the show .... it will get your attention !

Wrong. The NRA didn't jump on the case the Tresmond's and Bombardo were representing. They left the divorce lawyers to themselves.

 

[Marine Cpl]

You're taking liberty here with 2 important matters...

One, NYSP never "blessed" anything officially. Everyone knows that. Their "tacit" approval with epoxied bullet buttons, DD Ranch type devices, and the Thordsen stock speaks volumes in regards to what they are CURRENTLY willing to accept. To ignore or gloss that fact over is to your detriment.

Secondly, I wouldn't be holding ANY actions taken by the Tresmonds or Bombardo as gospel. The Attorney I consulted with dared say that in light of the charges you'd face, the time and financial expenditures you'd incur, and the damage to your credibility and good name eventually you'd be steered towards taking a plea deal. You'd lose your rifle, some self respect, and a boatload of money but you'd stay out of jail and THAT'S what Defense Attorneys do....keep you out of jail.

The real problem here is there are NO concrete answers to the questions we have. The best method of approach is to adopt the same approach NY FFL's have with the options available that will allow a rifle to be sold retail by a dealer.

Correct but even that is taking a chance as your attorney has said and I've been parroting here.. At least with featureless, there is no ambiguity. It either has the features or it doesn't according to the law just like any other featureless rifle.

 

[SteyrAug]

Their acceptance sets precedent. They would have a very hard time changing their mind now . Given the nationwide climate on guns, they would look like fools and face serious repercussions in funding from the DOJ. NY state is not an independent country. It is, in fact, a failing economy that is only propped up by external forces. Just imagine if the stock exchanges and big banks decided to move to Miami ........

 

[spat]

If you look at California's law, they define what a fixed magazine is and they even say that the AWB doesn't pertain to rifles with fixed magazines.

Previous AWB bills here in NY along with initial drafts of the Safe Act had that language of requiring tools to remove the magazine. It was removed however on final draft. Why? Because they didn't want us to be fixing magazines like Californians were doing to skirt the law.

They didn't define pistol grips either because Californians used the definition's language to skirt those too. They figured if they didn't define those, you couldn't fix the magazine or go featureless without a grip.

There end goal was to completely ban them with no workarounds. Little did they know about the upcoming Spur grip or stock that isn't a grip..

So you can say that you are fixing a magazine and are legal. You can also say that they sell them that way and the NYSP blessed them. None of that matters. Ask the guy that the Tresmond's were representing if the MR2 blessing from the NYSP got him clean off. If I remember correctly (I might be wrong since I haven't gone to that site in a while) he was forced to plead to a lesser charge and his rifle was never returned to him even though the Tresmond's and Bombardo swore they were going to get his rifle back.

So say what you want to say. If the rifle's magazine can be removed and can accept another one with or without tools (they struck that language from the law on purpose) you can be charged with it all the way depending on the DA or forced to plea out depending on the DA. Either way, you aren't getting it back unless the charges are dropped.

That's not the case however if you turn your rifle into an exact featureless version just like a Mini 14 Ranch.

I *can* put a detachable magazine on your mini 14 ranch. All it takes is some tools and time.

So, what's the difference between that and an SKS, or an AR ?

 

[Marine Cpl]

Their acceptance sets precedent. They would have a very hard time changing their mind now . Given the nationwide climate on guns, they would look like fools and face serious repercussions in funding from the DOJ. NY state is not an independent country

I'm selling a bridge called Naivety. Are you interested?

 

[Marine Cpl]

I *can* put a detachable magazine on your mini 14 ranch. All it takes is some tools and time.

So, what's the difference between that and an SKS, or an AR ?

Come on Spat. We've been through this before. The Mini Ranch doesn't have features so it doesn't apply in regards to Fixed Magazines and as literally written, the SKS can accept a magazine if it has features. If it doesn't have features it doesn't matter if the magazine is fixed or not.

The law doesn't say the ability to accept features.

Don't argue with me. Argue with the exact words written on paper.

 

[spat]

Come on Spat. We've been through this before. The Mini doesn't have features so it doesn't apply and as literally written, the SKS can accept if it has features.

The law doesn't say the ability to accept features.

We've been over it several times, and you still keep going back to the same wrong ideas.

If officer Stompy McDouchebag doesn't like your mini, and decides to arrest you over it, and DA Nutsy VonCamerahog decides he wants to be on TV, he'll throw a clamp on bayonet on your gun for proof that it has a mount, and say that it *does* have a pistol grip, because it looks scary when you hold it.

Your lawyer will be happy to take your money and will say "it doesn't have the ability" as often as you want for $200/hr.

$50k and several months in jail later you will be offered a plea, and you'll take it because you are out of money.

 

[Marine Cpl]

We've been over it several times, and you still keep going back to the same wrong ideas.

If officer Stompy McDouchebag doesn't like your mini, and decides to arrest you over it, and DA Nutsy VonCamerahog decides he wants to be on TV, he'll throw a clamp on bayonet on your gun, and say that it *does* have a pistol grip, because it looks scary when you hold it.

Your lawyer will be happy to take your money and will say "it doesn't have the ability" as often as you want for $200/hr.

$50k and several months in jail later you will be offered a plea, and you'll take it because you are out of money.

And your point is?

Of the two scenarios, which is more likely to happen. The one you described above or the one with a fixed mag AR where they don't have to add anything? Be honest.

 

[spat]

And your point is?

Of the two scenarios, which is more likely to happen. The one you described above or the one with a fixed mag AR where they don't have to add anything? Be honest.

Well, since neither has happened yet, they both seem equally likely.

Whatever officer you run into that is going to screw with you is almost certainly not going to know details about the safe act that we can't even agree on here. He'll remember your mini14 from the A-team and that will be "assault weapony" enough for him.

Then either you get a reasonable DA who recognizes that the officer overstepped and cuts some deal where you pay a fine and lose the rifle, or you get the grandstander who wants headlines, and you end up in the cell next to the guy with the 15rnd mags, until you run out of money.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Well, since neither has happened yet, they both seem equally likely.

Whatever officer you run into that is going to screw with you is almost certainly not going to know details about the safe act that we can't even agree on here. He'll remember your mini14 from the A-team and that will be "assault weapony" enough for him.

Then either you get a reasonable DA who recognizes that the officer overstepped and cuts some deal where you pay a fine and lose the rifle, or you get the grandstander who wants headlines, and you end up in the cell next to the guy with the 15rnd mags, until you run out of money.

I asked for honesty but whatever. If you say so. I guess I have to take your word that you are being honest. With that said, I disagree.

Chances are the Mini will be left alone because it doesn't have features and the fully featured AR with a BB or Maglock will land you in the slammer and then dollars and days later you'll take the plea and never see it again.

 

[spat]

I asked for honesty but whatever. If you say so. I guess I have to take your word that you are being honest. With that said, I disagree.

Chances are the Mini will be left alone because it doesn't have features and the fully featured AR with a BB or Maglock will land you in the slammer and then dollars and days later you'll take the plea and never see it again.

By the time they are looking closely enough at the rifle to decide what features it does or doesn't have, they've already decided your screwed and are going to read this ambiguous POS however they want.

An AR that you reload through the ejection por, or split in half before loading will attract a lot less attention than the mini you slap a fresh mag in, even if you did *nothing* to fix the mag, besides not remove it when they were looking.

 

[Uzi]

Well, since neither has happened yet, they both seem equally likely.

Yeah, I don't think it'll matter what configuration you have on your AR.

Judging the cooler one by its appearance is discrimination, just like judging the gay looking one is also discrimination. That's why all black rifles matter, even if they've been neutered and don't know whether they identify as a western montecarlo version or a sexy modern tacticool version.

 

[Marine Cpl]

By the time they are looking closely enough at the rifle to decide what features it does or doesn't have, they've already decided your screwed and are going to read this ambiguous POS however they want.

An AR that you reload through the ejection por, or split in half before loading will attract a lot less attention than the mini you slap a fresh mag in, even if you did *nothing* to fix the mag, besides not remove it when they were looking.

Ok. Man. Sure.

 

[spat]

Ok. Man. Sure.

Does you honestly thing some officer is going to come up to investigate your rifle, and let you convince him that it's featureless ?

99% of the officers will not cross the room to look, and even if you have a full tacticool rifle setup, they will just assume you registered it. The remaining 1% have already decided you're guilty before they even get to you.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Does you honestly thing some officer is going to come up to investigate your rifle, and let you convince him that it's featureless ?

99% of the officers will not cross the room to look, and even if you have a full tacticool rifle setup, they will just assume you registered it. The remaining 1% have already decided you're guilty before they even get to you.

Not so if they are in your house for another reason.

 

[spat]

Not so if they are in your house for another reason.

Same thing. If they decide to look at your rifles, assume you are going to get screwed.

Really depends on *what* they are in your house for.

Remember this though, they currently have no easy way to determine what is registered and what isn't. I would not be volunteering any information at all.


Really thought, if someone wanted to test all of this crap, the best bet would be to put a BB on a registered rifle, then *legally* attract attention. If they decide to screw with you over it, you can let it go as long as you are willing, then pull out the "no, it's registered, all your BS is irrelevant" card.

 

[Jem45472]

If you look at California's law, they define what a fixed magazine is and they even say that the AWB doesn't pertain to rifles with fixed magazines.

Previous AWB bills here in NY along with initial drafts of the Safe Act had that language of requiring tools to remove the magazine. It was removed however on final draft. Why? Because they didn't want us to be fixing magazines like Californians were doing to skirt the law.

They didn't define pistol grips either because Californians used the definition's language to skirt those too. They figured if they didn't define those, you couldn't fix the magazine or go featureless without a grip.

There end goal was to completely ban them with no workarounds. Little did they know about the upcoming Spur grip or stock that isn't a grip..

So you can say that you are fixing a magazine and are legal. You can also say that they sell them that way and the NYSP blessed them. None of that matters. Ask the guy that the Tresmond's were representing if the MR2 blessing from the NYSP got him clean off. If I remember correctly (I might be wrong since I haven't gone to that site in a while) he was forced to plead to a lesser charge and his rifle was never returned to him even though the Tresmond's and Bombardo swore they were going to get his rifle back.

So say what you want to say. If the rifle's magazine can be removed and can accept another one with or without tools (they struck that language from the law on purpose) you can be charged with it all the way depending on the DA or forced to plea out depending on the DA. Either way, you aren't getting it back unless the charges are dropped.

That's not the case however if you turn your rifle into an exact featureless version just like a Mini 14 Ranch.

You know the "don't break more than one law" thing we always talk about? That's a perfect example with the Tresmond case you're talking about. I never thought the mr2 was a good risk to take. I live where these guys were arrested and the local police for the most part could give two shits about the Safe Act, but when your using something questionable like the mr2, you don't bring your buddy from out of state with an unquestionable "assault rifle", go shooting on private property that has been patrolled in this area for the last 30 years, and get charged for reckless endangerment after hitting a house.

I said this at the old forum, don't feel too bad for them. You know the stupid games thing.

 

[Jem45472]

The law is on the books.


If by some act of God, nationwide reciprocity and the safe hearing acts pass, NY and other fascist States will be in the crosshairs of both the Feds as well as all companies/organizations who want those laws enacted and applied to all. !

When NY can flat out spit in the government's face about the sanctuary city thing, what makes you think they will buckle for reciprocity or the hpa?

 

[SteyrAug]

Lotsa places are sanctuaries. We'll see how many are when the $ is cut off. W/O Federal $ NY would collapse in 60 days.

Sanctuary locations will go tits up as soon as some illegal flies an Anthrax drone into a stadium. And that's a piece of cake !