Conspiracy

freddy

freddy

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holdover said:
Well, the context of my position is that of a false narrative, This supports what I am saying. No eyewitness ID'ed lanza.

Kaitlin roings story is impossible.

Barbra Siblys is an outright fabrication .

we have various descriptions of the shooter:


Book 5
00003250.pdf
"04 stated that the children had told her that when the man had come into their classroom they had run out of the room and ultimately the school. The children stated that the man had a "shotgun," and one of the boys told her that the man had a mask. The children stated that they had seen their teacher get shot in the foot, and that they had seen "murdered" people."

Book 5
00005519.pdf
Woman who left school at approximately 9:31-9:34 said she saw suspicious older man at school just prior to shooting:
"04 stated that there was an older man, approximately 60-65 years old, dressed in dark clothing, with his hands in his pockets. He was walking in and shuffling. She knows that this was not Adam Lanza, but it did make her do a double and triple take.... 04 stated that most people who come to the school are animated and jovial, and it struck her as odd that this man was not smiling and very flat in expression."

Book 5
00005524.pdf
Natalie Hammond told people in conference room shooter was wearing a mask.
"One of the teachers in the meeting, "Natalie", ran and shut the meeting room door and thereafter said that she had been shot. 04 related that Natalie had said that "he had a mask on."

Book 5
00006254.pdf
"While 04 was on the telephone, Hammond provided her with a description of what she had seen. Hammond related that she saw a person with a mask and that Hochspring and Sherlack had been shot."

Book 5
00007937.pdf
"...I saw a man standing in the lobby facing down the primary wing (hallway) to the 1st grade and 2nd grade classrooms. The man appeared white and was wearing a soft rim type hat, sunglasses (dark), and he was holding a rifle type gun with a long barrel."(no mask no sunglasses)
(Note that police did not describe sunglasses nor were sunglasses included in the photos of the shooter's clothing in the police report. Same with a mask that many witnesses saw.)

"Hammond described the gunman as wearing dark clothing, approximately 5'-8" - 5'-10" in height, with a medium build. Hammond stated that she could not see his face..."

Book 5
00030129.pdf
Female student survivor describes shooter in Army clothes
"Then, a man dressed in green and beige "Army" clothes came into her classroom, didn't say anything and 'began shooting random people...with his rifle."
(Note: Adam was wearing all black, as evidenced by the photos

Book 5
00177428.pdf
"At approximately 1058 hours, Off. Greco brought in [redacted] along with her mother for an interview. [redacted] explained that the bad guy shot her teacher and classmates. She further explained that the bad guy looked like an Army guy wearing what sounded like green fatigues. She further stated that she only saw one bad guy.... In speaking with Sgt. Kullgren, he didn't sound 100% sure that there was only one shooter."

Book 5
00180063.pdf
"...the classroom door 'banged open' and a man with a gun came into the classroom. [redacted] described the man as tall and skinny with light skin and a brown beard that was short. He stated that he was wearing a green army style hat with straps, and green shirt and camouflage pants (no mask no sunglasses)

Book 5
00198959.pdf
"After a few moments, the classroom door opened and a 'bad man' entered the room and started shooting everyone in the class. [redacted] said the shooter was dressed in "army clothes" and was firing a 'bazooka.' He thought the shooter had dark skin and a beard."

Book 5
00198970.pdf
"...then he saw a white man with all green clothing and a green hat, with black boots, walk into his classroom carrying a gun....He described the man as 'being the age of a dad' when asked how old the shooter was looked."

Book 5
00256448.pdf
"He was wearing brown or camo shirt, brown pants, a hat that was like a sombrero but smaller that was also brown.... he was also wearing sunglasses.

Book 5
00258277.pdf
"[redacted] stated that the male shooter didn't say anything to anyone, and described the shooter as a white guy with a heavy winter-like brown jacket, and a green shirt underneath the jacket. [redacted] stated that he believed the man was wearing army green kind of pants, and described him as having dark hair, longer on the top than on the bottom, with no beard or moustache."

Book 5
00256630.pdf
(Sally Cox, school nurse)"04 hid underneath the computer desk. Through a hole in the back of the computer desk, she observed from the knees down a person standing directly in front of her, with feet pointed towards her.... The person's pants looked dark blue and the boots were black."






And as I said before, the lack of evidence that the shooter was lanza is in question. There can be no certainty at this point from the information we have that Lanza did this. As I said before, there isnt enough evidence to charge lanza at trespassing at this point.
and the question Im asking is who is the shooter? and what is the evidence ?
Click to expand...


A car wreck is spotted on the side of the road. Car smashed into a tree. A womans dead body is found inside, behind the wheel. There are beer bottles strewn all over the inside of the car. Bloodwork shows she is far over limit for alcohol. There are no witnesses. Can we not deduce what happened?
 
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holdover

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That's not the situation at all. You have no bottles no car no alcohol.

Right now you have no credible eyewitness, fabricated stories, and a total lack of evidence. You can't take this case to court with the evidence you have. Yet for some still unknown reason you are convinced lanza committed the crime.

Just what are you deducing here?what facts do you have?

I've seen crime scene pics of the columbine killers I've seen the crime scene pics of Steven paddock.

What's the big secret? It's real simple debunk any theory in the face of actual evidence.
This case is almost totally circumstancial evidence. You can't prove what you claim.
 
freddy

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holdover said:
That's not the situation at all. You have no bottles no car no alcohol.

Right now you have no credible eyewitness, fabricated stories, and a total lack of evidence. You can't take this case to court with the evidence you have. Yet for some still unknown reason you are convinced lanza committed the crime.

Just what are you deducing here?what facts do you have?

I've seen crime scene pics of the columbine killers I've seen the crime scene pics of Steven paddock.

What's the big secret? It's real simple debunk any theory in the face of actual evidence.
This case is almost totally circumstancial evidence. You can't prove what you claim.
Click to expand...

Please, three simple yes or no questions:
A. Do you think kids were shot at sandy hook school? Yes or no?
B. Do you think Adam Lanza self inflicted gunshot at sandy hook school? Yes or no?
C. Do you think Lanza's mother was shot at her home? Yes or no?​

Your answers (yes or no):
A.
B.
C.​
 
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holdover

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[/QUOTE]Please, three simple yes or no questions:
A. Do you think kids were shot at sandy hook school? Yes or no?
B. Do you think Adam Lanza self inflicted gunshot at sandy hook school? Yes or no?
C. Do you think Lanza's mother was shot at her home? Yes or no?[/QUOTE]

​

They are not simple questions ,

A.Probably,
B.As opposed to the police? as opposed to somebody else? Im not certain he was even at the school . I would say its unclear what happened.
C. As opposed to? Her car? That seems to be the case.


Reasonable doubt:
Generally, prosecutors bear the burden of proof and are required to prove their version of events to this standard. This means that the proposition being presented by the prosecution must be proven to the extent that there could be no "reasonable doubt" in the mind of a "reasonable person" that the defendant is guilty. Beyond a reasonable doubt is the highest burden of proof in any court in the United States. Criminal cases must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

The U.S. Supreme Court first discusses the term in Miles v. United States (1880): "The evidence upon which a jury is justified in returning a verdict of guilty must be sufficient to produce a conviction of guilt, to the exclusion of all reasonable doubt." The Due Process Clause protects the accused against conviction except upon proof beyond a reasonable doubt of every fact necessary to constitute the crime with which he is charged."

Is Adam Lanza Guilty? Show me the evidence. show me the death scene photos at the school show me the wound in his head, show me the autopsy photos, Show me the forensics at the scenes . Any conspiracy dies in the face of the evidence. All we have is circumstantial evidence, and any lawyer will tell you its extremely difficult to get a conviction with circumstantial evidence. There is circumstantial evidence of other shooters, but that doesn't prove jack squat. Could be ten reasons to midnight why that is. But when I flip that mirror around , you don't see your own reflection. If I asked you how many times lanza was shot , you would say one time in the back of the head, If I asked you how you knew that you would say the police said so . That's your evidence. The police said so. How do you know he wasn't shot 6 times with two types of weapons? You don't, Why ?because We cant see the pictures . We cant see the autopsy photos. This is a real simple problem to solve.

The crime has been solved since the day it happened , Give me a viable explanation why his death photos are not shown .

​
 
gun_slinger_boy

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Please, three simple yes or no questions:
A. Do you think kids were shot at sandy hook school? Yes or no?
B. Do you think Adam Lanza self inflicted gunshot at sandy hook school? Yes or no?
C. Do you think Lanza's mother was shot at her home? Yes or no?[/QUOTE]

​

They are not simple questions ,

A.Probably,
B.As opposed to the police? as opposed to somebody else? Im not certain he was even at the school . I would say its unclear what happened.
C. As opposed to? Her car? That seems to be the case.​
[/QUOTE]

I think these are good (honest) answers to freddy's questions but what's the end game here then? Are we saying that if there were in fact kids killed at this school (or building or whatever anyone wants to call it), Lanza may have possibly been killed elsewhere and framed and his mother was killed at her home, is this some kind of black op?
 
freddy

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Still waiting for the top 3 list of that which proves conspiracy or cover up at sandy hook.

1.
2.
3.

I am begining to think no one answers this because they know it is a weak list!
 
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holdover

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Lack of physical evidence,
Lack of eyewitnesses,
lack of surveillance video ,or photographs of Lanza. before, during, or after shooting.
Lack of motive.
 
Last edited:
Darth

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holdover said:
No I didn't know that .

How about clothing then? Something?
Click to expand...
You're not alone. I used to think it was real too. I'll bet most people do, but when it was explained why they don't actually do that, it made sense.

Messes up the scene.
 
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holdover

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Sec 12 - CT State Police Forensic Laboratory Reports.pdf
Sec 12 - CT State Police Forensic Laboratory Reports.pdf



 
Defilade

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Robin said:
As far as the actual argument itself, Holdover keeps presenting factual data taken from real sources, his opposition(?), taunts and some mild mockery, but nothing to counter his data. If this was a moot court debate Holdover would own his opponents.
Robin
Click to expand...

100%
 
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holdover

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53
“No positive identification could be made to any of the bullet evidence submissions noted … … in 5.56 mm caliber. The physical condition of the bullet jacket surfaces were severely damaged and corroded. They all lacked individual striated marks of sufficient agreement for the identification process. The test fires also exhibited a lack of individual striated marks on the bullet surface for comparison purposes. This condition can be caused by fouling in the barrel of the rifle and the ammunition itself. The Bushmaster rifle cannot be eliminated as having fired the 5.56 caliber bullet evidence examined,” quoting from the 6/19/13 Forensic Science Laboratory report.
54
See the Appendix at page A141.


bottom of page 37 Footnote #53:


 
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