Father And Son Lose Their Lives After Father Struggles To Chamber Round
- Thread starter Dr. Evil
- Start date
Celt
.338 Win Mag
I think it's crazy when people don't carry with a round chambered. And just like the article says if you're not comfortable then you should get the training you need so that you are. If you're going to carry a weapon for personal protection then you should be trained and prepared properly. It doesn't mean you have to be trained like a Navy SEAL, but you have to be comfortable and proficient.
Truth.
BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
Word.
If you aren't comfortable carrying with one in the pipe, you either shouldn't be carrying, need another gun, or need to go out and get some training/practice. Probably all of the above.
I admittedly carry on very limited occasion, on my property, but there's always a round in the chamber even if I'm just walking down to the range for practice and plinking. If I were carrying off premise I see no reason why I wouldn't be even more inclined to do so.
If you aren't comfortable carrying with one in the pipe, you either shouldn't be carrying, need another gun, or need to go out and get some training/practice. Probably all of the above.
I admittedly carry on very limited occasion, on my property, but there's always a round in the chamber even if I'm just walking down to the range for practice and plinking. If I were carrying off premise I see no reason why I wouldn't be even more inclined to do so.
@thewheels
.308 Win
A round in the chamber should be a given when you're carrying.
That being said, it's still not a guarantee of a favorable outcome. It certainly wouldn't have hurt his chances in the video, but to know how much it would have changed the outcome is impossible to say.
You can do everything right in your preparations and still get hurt or worse.
That being said, it's still not a guarantee of a favorable outcome. It certainly wouldn't have hurt his chances in the video, but to know how much it would have changed the outcome is impossible to say.
You can do everything right in your preparations and still get hurt or worse.
Shadow2
6.5 Creedmoor
Spiritual fitness .. sorry this guy is a pudd, karma is going to bite him in the ass one day.
C3D
.308 Win
I had one setup I carried many years ago with an empty chamber and drew Israeli style. I was pretty good with that draw. But I saw the light and switched to carrying a better (the best?) gun in condition 1. A Glock of course. (Although we could argue if a trigger safety is Condition 1 or 0.)
GoodGuywitha9mm
.45 acp
I carry ready to rock even at the range. I carry an SR9, and I train with the 9E (basically a Cheap SR9). My carry gun stays in my conceal holster (10 + 1); while shooting, setting up my targets, and retrieving my targets. If wish to switch them up, I always have a concealed firearm on me regardless.
He would have been better off just letting that guy walk, but hindsight is always 20/20. That and it always easy to critique from a video...
He would have been better off just letting that guy walk, but hindsight is always 20/20. That and it always easy to critique from a video...
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Glad you saw the light. Many think Israeli Draw was a good thing because the Israelis did it. The only reason thet did it was for uniformity in training their troops because they had a ragtag inventory of different pistols at one time. Some with safeties and others without. So in order to not have to train on every gun and lose muscle memory, every gun was carried with the chamber empty and the safety off if it was equipped with one.
Our own military requires it unless you are an MP on duty or leaving the wire.
Our own military requires it unless you are an MP on duty or leaving the wire.
When I was selling guns a few years ago, I was very, very surprised how many carriers of guns carried unchambered.
I tried to educate as much as possible. The typical answer to why they carried this way; "I don't want the gun to go off accidentally.
I tried to educate as much as possible. The typical answer to why they carried this way; "I don't want the gun to go off accidentally.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
Chambered or not wouldn’t have mattered in this case. He drew on an already drawn gun. If you don’t like light striker fired get a mans gun. Aka a da/da hammer fired and keep one in the pipe.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
That is incorrect (sort of). The only safety the Israelis were worried about was the lack of a drop safety. That’s why they carried empty. Shitty old pistols without a drop safety.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Because real men are afraid that it might go off so they need more poundage.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Sig Sauers?
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
I think it was anything he picked up back In the day. Doubt they still carry empty.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
Glocks are geigh.hammer for the win.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I bet you are one of those that in a gunfight if you get a failure to fire you'll pull the trigger again and get yourself killed.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
I bet not sir. Not been killed yet. I also bet you pull the trigger Again because you only shoot to break in the wife’s gun. It’s instinct to pull trigger again. My gun will setI bet you are one of those that in a gunfight if you get a failure to fire you'll pull the trigger again and get yourself killed.
Off the primer on second pull more times than not but I don’t carry fmj nato rock primer crap so I’m good! Now I see why Edward left you..
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Haha. It isn't instinct if you are trained for proper remedial action.
As far as Edward goes, I won't comment. He's been pretty unstable lately. Takes basic questions as threats and retaliates. I'm scared.
BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
I don't know how much longer that goes on but I managed to get past the part about "gently" dropping a baby if you happen to get into a fight and need both hands, but I gave up at "the entire state of Israel" carries in this manner.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
I hear you on the spouse. Sometimes training goes out the window during stress. Not everyone is a highly trained expert like me.
Glenn B
.308 Win
How do you know that? How are you certain the guy would have just walked and not executed them anyway?
GoodGuywitha9mm
.45 acp
Yeah, I don't "know" that, but with only 2 options to begin with (draw or not draw) and having chose to draw (which obviously pissed off the bad guy) it couldn't have ended any worse. Perhaps if worded "He "MAY" have been better off just letting that guy walk?" We;ll never really know...
subsonic
.44 mag
Honestly, I don't care how convinced you are about the one true way to carry; these types of incident-analysis videos from tacticool trainers and youtubers don't prove anything about the "right" way for everyone to self-defend. It is important to learn from other people's mistakes, but this video doesn't prove that carrying chambered is always inherently superior any more than a video of some idiot shooting his nutsack off proves that carrying chambered is too dangerous.
It's by no means clear this would have ended any differently if he was carrying chambered. Just as he fumbled the slide and wasn't quick enough, he could have missed his shot or otherwise failed to stop the multiple armed threats in time to save his and his son's life. With his judgment in this scenario he would have been safer not carrying at all and misjudging his advantage. I think shooting at that moment was a screw-up, but he did the best he could and he is obviously the victim of these animals.
The fact is that shit happens; learn, arm and educate yourself the way you decide is right and invest the money and effort you decide is right for you, not some internet warriors. If resorting to guns isn't a low-probability event in your private life then you should probably re-examine your lifestyle. You can't eliminate all risks and you have to choose what option you are comfortable with.
It's by no means clear this would have ended any differently if he was carrying chambered. Just as he fumbled the slide and wasn't quick enough, he could have missed his shot or otherwise failed to stop the multiple armed threats in time to save his and his son's life. With his judgment in this scenario he would have been safer not carrying at all and misjudging his advantage. I think shooting at that moment was a screw-up, but he did the best he could and he is obviously the victim of these animals.
The fact is that shit happens; learn, arm and educate yourself the way you decide is right and invest the money and effort you decide is right for you, not some internet warriors. If resorting to guns isn't a low-probability event in your private life then you should probably re-examine your lifestyle. You can't eliminate all risks and you have to choose what option you are comfortable with.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Sometimes the way you decide is right is not the most optimal way. You may think it's right and discredit someone because it's from YouTube but the fact of the matter is that no professional agency or any police department ever makes their officers carry unchambered. There's a valid reason for that.
The military does it behind the wire because you have a lot of immature idiot kids in the military but once outside the wire and outside the safety of the wire, a round is chambered even for those idiot kids too.
I find it funny that people discredit facts because they are from YouTube yet they wouldn't discredit them if they were from a magazine or from the mouth of some fat dude at a gun shop or a cop.
Either the facts are correct or they are not. The platform where these facts are spoken from are irrelevant.
The military does it behind the wire because you have a lot of immature idiot kids in the military but once outside the wire and outside the safety of the wire, a round is chambered even for those idiot kids too.
I find it funny that people discredit facts because they are from YouTube yet they wouldn't discredit them if they were from a magazine or from the mouth of some fat dude at a gun shop or a cop.
Either the facts are correct or they are not. The platform where these facts are spoken from are irrelevant.
subsonic
.44 mag
I don't care what the platform is. I dislike this smug attitude. I'll concede that on the whole, trained properly, carrying with one in the chamber is almost axiomatically an advantage in a self-defense situation. That doesn't mean that everyone who ever carries with an empty chamber is wrong and needs to be corrected. Least of all due to some Monday morning quarterback jockeying over footage of very rare scenarios.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Carrying chambered is faster no matter how you slice it. You carry a gun because you wanted an advantage. No? You practice as much as you can because you want to be as proficient as you can and you want an advantage? No? You carry chambered because you want an advantage? No? Or does it end at just carrying?
Why anyone would not want to become familiar with their firearm and be comfortable with it is beyond me.
People Monday morning quarterback to get people thinking. We do it. The government does it after an investigation. Everyone does it. It's called trying to learn from mistakes. If no one ever Monday morning quarterbacked, we would never learn anything.
Just because you have a difference in opinion doesn't mean that he is a "pudd" for it.
Spiritual fitness in this sense is rather a similar concept to mothers telling their children to always have clean underwear on.
If your time is up, don't go with regrets.
As hard as it was when my father passed it was a great comfort that there wasn't any unfinished business between us. Same concept here.