Not surprised.
Favorite carry handgun caliber
- Thread starter GOPerfect
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Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
And surprise, surprise, I own a 1911 in a soul stealing caliber. I just don't carry it anymore.
This info from Luckygunner seems fairly complete and well done - http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/. Combine these with reviews from tnoutdoors9 on Youtube (tnoutdoors9) and there is enough data to make an informed choice.
Covers .380, 9mm .40 S&W and .45 ACP
Covers .380, 9mm .40 S&W and .45 ACP
NYLifter
22lr
Love my. 357 LCR loaded with 38. Take it the range at least weekly and shoot 100 rounds for practice. I am a damn good shot with it. Pocket carry with cargo pants and I forget it's there. ..
That was a fantastic compendium of tests! And it confirms what most of us believe, the 9mm offers comparable performance to other calibers at a reduced level of recoil and an increase of capacity. The .45 does offer a meaningful improvement over the 9mm however. My opinion stands, 9mm for unrestricted states or in capacity limited single stacks, .45 in restricted states. Simple. Oh, and Glasers suck, no suprise there.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Curious. Why .45 for restrictive states? I'm not getting the logic.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
Many see 10 .45 being more favorable than 10 9mm. Now when you can have 17 9mm that's another story. The logic being if you can only have 10 make 10 bigger holes.
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Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I see. But in keeping true to the thread of Caliber Wars, wouldn't having ten rounds of a milder recoiling caliber enable faster follow-up shots on a target?
I mean a .45 caliber hole is bigger but what if other variables comes into play where follow-up shots are critical and the gun comes back on target faster with a milder caliber. IE... mutiple attackers, moving targets, ect.
Then you have other variables such as an attacker taking cover behind a hard barrier that the slower speed of the heavier caliber cannot penetrate.
I mean a .45 caliber hole is bigger but what if other variables comes into play where follow-up shots are critical and the gun comes back on target faster with a milder caliber. IE... mutiple attackers, moving targets, ect.
Then you have other variables such as an attacker taking cover behind a hard barrier that the slower speed of the heavier caliber cannot penetrate.
Aimtite
.40 S&W
357SIG.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
Again with the frying pans...
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
I get clowned all the time. I'm laughing all the way to the bank. These clowns get new trucks and don't need a tuck most of the time.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I like .357 Sig on a Duty Pistol but on a subcompact with a 3 inch barrel, the flash, concussion, and recoil indoors is a negative.
There are 9mm rounds that almost emulate a .357 Sig. At least the watered down versions ammo manufacturers are making.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
It's a valid argument. Hard barriers are very much something to consider when an attacker is shooting at you from behind one.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
It's a good car. No doubt about that. It handles better than my Jeep does in the snow.
Kind of hard to pick one. I like the 5.7x28, 38 Super, 41 Magnum, 10mm, 40 S&W and 357Magnum. I carry the .45 ACP though.
38 super made major and I could have 22 round mags back before I moved to the PRNY. 5.7 is just plain fun to shoot especially out of a carbine. 41 Mag and 357 Mag well they are just what the doctor ordered for a home invasion. I have a revolver in 10mm and shoot 40s through it just for fun.
I grew up with the 45 ACP both my grandfather and father carried one in the conflicts they served in. If it was good enough for them it is good enough for me.
38 super made major and I could have 22 round mags back before I moved to the PRNY. 5.7 is just plain fun to shoot especially out of a carbine. 41 Mag and 357 Mag well they are just what the doctor ordered for a home invasion. I have a revolver in 10mm and shoot 40s through it just for fun.
I grew up with the 45 ACP both my grandfather and father carried one in the conflicts they served in. If it was good enough for them it is good enough for me.
Greywolf224
6.5 Creedmoor
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
I don't think +p+ is recommended by any manufacturer. If you want apples to apples compare the hot .357 sig to the hot 9mm. It's not even close. I agree that the .357 sig is pointless unless a full size pistol is used. Show me any 9mm that compares to the below data. You might need to carry a .357 sig for the thick frying pans!
- Muzzle Velocity: 1700 fps
- Muzzle Energy: 578 ft. lbs.
- Penetration: 17.5 inches
- Muzzle Velocity: 1475 fps
- Muzzle Energy: 604 ft. lbs.
- Muzzle Velocity: 1550 fps
- Muzzle Energy: 614 ft. lbs.
- Muzzle Velocity: 1700 fps
- Muzzle Energy: 578 ft. lbs.
- Penetration: 17.5 inches
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I can't show you any 9mm that matches .357 Sig nor did I ever claim it did. I said that +P+ almost reaches the watered down velocities that many manufacturers put out there for the. 357 Sig.
As far as the frying pans go, I'll stick to the 9mm that'll penetrate pans of average depth.
There's no need for me to go to a caliber with more recoil. The benefit doesn't outweigh the negatives.
As far as the frying pans go, I'll stick to the 9mm that'll penetrate pans of average depth.
There's no need for me to go to a caliber with more recoil. The benefit doesn't outweigh the negatives.
Greywolf224
6.5 Creedmoor
I think its safe to say that if we are all in one room and come under attack, we will have all the tools, mass, head and penetration covered...in reference to firearms of course.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
The .357 sig recoil is not really that bad in my opinion. But that was from a glock 31 (not exactly a carry gun). It is a loud fer though.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
The place I order from was out of the +p. The nypd uses that and we all know they miss alot. I figure it must be the ammo's fault.Why not+ P? Too much recoil?
Aimtite
.40 S&W
Gents,
The 357SIG from a subcompact precisely emulates the 357 magnum out of the same barrel length.
This was the original intention of the caliber to be reliably fed and fired from a modern small frame pistol.
This is about 200 fps faster than the hotest +P+ 9mm of the same grain on the same frame from a 3.8-4: barrel.
We are talking the real 357SIG and not some of the commercial underpowered ammo.
This is the choice of the US secret service and other special police around the world.
Yes it is stout recoil but it shoots super flat and goes through glass and doors like knife through butter.
IMO with pocket pistols or compact with very short barrels and for general purpose self defense
is better to go for extra grain vs. speed no matter what caliber.
Also the a good 9mm +P+ with a quality pistol is an excellent and very capable defensive round.
I firmly believe the best caliber for anyone is the one you like and the one you shoot better with and w/o missing.
The 357SIG from a subcompact precisely emulates the 357 magnum out of the same barrel length.
This was the original intention of the caliber to be reliably fed and fired from a modern small frame pistol.
This is about 200 fps faster than the hotest +P+ 9mm of the same grain on the same frame from a 3.8-4: barrel.
We are talking the real 357SIG and not some of the commercial underpowered ammo.
This is the choice of the US secret service and other special police around the world.
Yes it is stout recoil but it shoots super flat and goes through glass and doors like knife through butter.
IMO with pocket pistols or compact with very short barrels and for general purpose self defense
is better to go for extra grain vs. speed no matter what caliber.
Also the a good 9mm +P+ with a quality pistol is an excellent and very capable defensive round.
I firmly believe the best caliber for anyone is the one you like and the one you shoot better with and w/o missing.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
With Federal HST, standard pressure 124 gr actually penetrates a few inches more in gel than the same round in +P from the tests I've seen. The sightly larger expansion the +P creates was enough to make it penetrate about 3 inches less in gel.
The standard pressure rounds are what I carry.
Aimtite
.40 S&W
Yep. there are some very nice standard pressure rounds. I also carry federal in my pocket small pistol.
Another good one is the hornady critical defense for a small pistol. Ballistic results are impressive. I have tried it but not carry it yet.
A +P would not be the best choice for those small pistols.
Another good one is the hornady critical defense for a small pistol. Ballistic results are impressive. I have tried it but not carry it yet.
A +P would not be the best choice for those small pistols.
I was going to say that the reason I use +P is I carry a 3" barrel 9mm, and most tests are conducted with service length barrels (4-5").
However, checking the Luckygunner test specs, they intentionally used what sidearms that most might consider as average "concealed carry" length barrels. Didn't see that before; thus, I would be more likely to get more penetration (4" more) than wanted and about equal expansion from the +P Federal 9mm HST than the standard pressure.
I'll have to look into the standard pressure HST 147 gr. Through and throughs are not good in a potential gunfight with innocents around.
Barrel lengths and weapons used in test:
"Short Barreled Handguns
This is one area where we intentionally deviated from the typical FBI test. Ballistics testing is most often conducted with full size or “service size” handguns with barrel lengths of at least 4”. However, most armed citizens carry smaller guns with shorter barrels, which means the bullets they fire will fly at a lower velocity than what is advertised by the ammo manufacturer. Ballistics data gathered using full size barrels can be misleading if applied to these small concealable pistols. We ran our tests with popular concealable handguns with barrel lengths we think are more representative of what the average citizen is actually carrying. The test guns used were as follows:
- .380 ACP: Glock 42, 3.25-inch barrel
- 9mm: Smith & Wesson M&P9c, 3.5-inch barrel
- .40 S&W: Glock 27, 3.42-inch barrel
- .45 ACP: Kahr CW45, 3.64-inch barrel"
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean as far as +P and as far as 147 gr's go but not all +P bullets behave the same and not all bullets of a certain grain behave the same when they are hollow points. Bullet construction of hollow points vary from manufacturer to manufacturer affecting how a round behaves.
If I misunderstood your post, I apologize.
Anyway, if you are interested in Federal HST, check out these videos. The only way to know how a bullet performs is to test it yourself or watch someone else's test. This guy tests from a 3 inch barrel.
Federal HST 124 gr Standard Pressure
Federal HST 124 gr+P
Federal HST 147 gr Standard Pressure
Federal HST 147 gr+P
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Snappo
6.5 Creedmoor
I had an orange 2014 Crosstrek with stick. Hated it. Went back to the dealership (Carbone) and had them use it as trade bait for an F150. The seats were painful after about 3-4 hours, the car had zero horsepower, the doors sounded cheap and tinny, stereo sucked hind teet. The orange color was OK but they could have gone brighter like the BMW 2002's from the early 70's. OTOH, the F150 is 2x the cost of the Crosstrek; so at the price-point I would say the Subaru is a solid product.
Snappo
6.5 Creedmoor
44 magnum should be one of the choices. A 44 mag with speed loaders is a very solid choice and more reliable of a fundamental design than a semi-automatic pistol. While a semi can fail-to-feed or fail-to-eject; a wheel gun does not suffer that anomaly. When I go out hiking in the woods and there is a chance of seeing bear; I don't consider anything that is not a wheel gun for protection.
Snappo
6.5 Creedmoor
I wear a 20" cast iron frying pan as protection.
My manhood isn't that big - I just use a condom for protection.