FBI seizing property (ppe)

[Carlos Hathcock]

"The arrest comes after President Trump claimed that some medical supplies were being swiped from New York City hospitals, which Mayor Bill de Blasio dismissed as insulting."

Apology to Trump in 2,198,125.....2,198,124......2,198,123....

 

[spat]

That's for personal use. This is clearly being hoarded to sell at a ridiculous upcharge.

Yea, this'll show people, next time they won't hoard this stuff.

Then it won't be available at any price.

If I need an N95 mask to save my life I'd much rather it cost $50 than just not be available at all.

You do realize that shortages are caused by the price not following the demand right ?

Price fixing doesn't mean everyone gets what they need at a "reasonable price". It means a lot of people can't get it at all.

 

[spat]

It literally says they're paying them in the posted article.

Pennies on the dollar for what a "reasonable price" for this stuff is now.

People who have the foresight to stockpile essential supplies should be able to profit from that.

Ant and the grasshopper and all.

Just because governor shitweasel decided not to stockpile enough supplies doesn't give him the right to take them from people who did.

 

[@thewheels]

Well I much prefer my mother and her colleagues get these supplies while they’re up to their neck in Covid patients and LOVE that the FBI is going after these pieces of shit.

Yeah, fuck those capitalist shits.

 

[spat]

Do you see the hundreds of thousands of masks involved?

Are we really this ridiculous here with the "slippery slope" nonsense hypotheticals?

No slippery slope, this is already off the cliff. "We need your stuff, and we have the power to take it, so sucks to be you".

There is no slope here, it's done.

 

[spat]

I suppose tough shit I'm going with airborne on this one. Mental exercise. Some guy has managed to circumvent weeks' worth of production and has warehouses full of N95 masks, which the country needs. He sets a price of $50 per, no negotiations. In the same way the government can take your land for a road and pay you its fair price--whether you like it or not--I'd say they can do the same here, for the greater good. Pay him the cost of the items, but he doesn't get to keep them.

Just because they regularly steal land doesn't mean they should be able to steal other stuff too.

Can the government steal your masks, give you $0.10 each for them, then send a $1/mask bill to the hospital that finally gets them ? They do that sort of thing with land all the time.

 

[C3D]

Let's be clear on the legal underpinning. This was the government using the Defense Production Act and seizing inventory of a commercial seller who will be paid the fair market value of the goods.

 

[@thewheels]

Just because they regularly steal land doesn't mean they should be able to steal other stuff too.

Can the government steal your masks, give you $0.10 each for them, then send a $1/mask bill to the hospital that finally gets them ? They do that sort of thing with land all the time.

Price gouging is only legal for the government and hospitals.

 

[@thewheels]

who will be paid the fair market value of the goods.

 

[Darth]

No mixed feelings here.

Going to be a comedy when the first few end up ventilated.

Absolutly shameful anyone can support any part of this.

 

[spat]

Let's be clear on the legal underpinning. This was the government using the Defense Production Act and seizing inventory of a commercial seller who will be paid the fair market value of the goods.

The fair market value of an N95 mask is considerably higher today than it was 6 months ago.

I doubt these guys are getting a fair market value.

Maybe if we allowed "price gouging" there would be some entrepreneurs out there who saw this coming and stocked a warehouse with ventilators and masks.

Wouldn't it be great to be able to buy 100k ventilators delivered today at 5x the old price right now ?

If someone did that, don't they deserve to get insanely rich for saving all those lives ?

But since anyone who had that idea also knows that they would just have gotten stolen by the government instead of making enough profit to cover their risk, we don't have any.

 

[C3D]

The beauty of fair market value is that if you don't like what the government offers you can go to court and sue.

 

[Darth]

The beauty of fair market value is that if you don't like what the government offers you can go to court and sue.

"We investigated ourself, and found out that we did nothing wrong."

 

[spat]

Let's be clear on the legal underpinning. This was the government using the Defense Production Act and seizing inventory of a commercial seller who will be paid the fair market value of the goods.

Let's be fair, this is the government deciding that the government can take anything you own if it thinks it wants it.

Anything they steal they are going to dress up and make it legal. They are certainly smart enough to sell this as the "Defense production act" and not the "let's take C3D's stuff act". But that doesn't mean it's any different.

 

[Darth]

Let's be fair, this is the government deciding that the government can take anything you own if it thinks it wants it.

Anything they steal they are going to dress up and make it legal. They are certainly smart enough to sell this as the "Defense production act" and not the "let's take C3D's stuff act". But that doesn't mean it's any different.

Call it a "war."

Tell them it's for the greater good.

The flock will belive it.

 

[spat]

The beauty of fair market value is that if you don't like what the government offers you can go to court and sue.

And the court will rule that the market value is what it was in January of this year, or January of 2025 when it hears the case.

But the plain fact is that a mask in April of 2020 is worth a hell of a lot more than it was in January, or will be whenever the case is actually heard.

Not to mention that we have no idea what the fair market value is right now, because anyone attempting to sell a mask for that is being shut down.

If masks (or TP, or sanitizer, or anything else) were allowed to be sold for fair market value, there wouldn't be a shortage, just expensive stuff.

 

[Darth]

And the court will rule that the market value is what it was in January of this year, or January of 2025 when it hears the case.

But the plain fact is that a mask in April of 2020 is worth a hell of a lot more than it was in January, or will be whenever the case is actually heard.

Not to mention that we have no idea what the fair market value is right now, because anyone attempting to sell a mask for that is being shut down.

If masks (or TP, or sanitizer, or anything else) were allowed to be sold for fair market value, there wouldn't be a shortage, just expensive stuff.

Who gives 2 shits what "fair market value" is? A fair market is one in which neither party is compelled to participate.

What gives them the right to your property?

Nothing.

 

[Airborneguy]

Is that what he was doing? If so, did they not at least compensate him at pre-surge prices?

It’s been mentioned here multiple times that most have been compensated. The shitbag in Brooklyn wasn’t for other reasons.

 

[Airborneguy]

Thankfully for a lot of deserving people, you loons aren’t in charge.

 

[PutnamCharlie]

Not sure why some people are so against what was done here. I am certainly not for the government taking shit from people BUT these were not taken for the government itself. They were taken for people that are trying to save the lives of other people they don't even know. At what point does morality come into play.

 

[Airborneguy]

Here? Never. This is all really just a means to create hypothetical situations where anything the government does equates to stealing your guns.

In a legit national emergency where hundreds are dying daily, Spat actually prefers that price gouging be not only legal but encouraged. It’s mindbogglingly sick.

 

[Darth]

At what point does morality come into play.

What was done here was the taking of morality out of play.

Now instead of someone making a moral decision to do X or Y, the government has decided what is best.

Now, instead of you having the option of doing what you wish with your property, you've had that removed so the government, that does things like hide stockpiles for reasons as silly as political squabbles, has control of it.

Any time I hear a statement "I'm all for X, BUT" I rarely if ever hear any sort of compelling reasoning after the BUT.

 

[spat]

Thankfully for a lot of deserving people, you loons aren’t in charge.

Too bad we're not. Might not have these shortages if people were allowed to charge a fair price.

How much more stock would the ventilator manufacturer keep in their warehouse if they knew they'd be allowed to charge "surge pricing" ?

How many people have to die because the public can't stand someone making a profit off a tragedy ?

 

[spat]

Not sure why some people are so against what was done here. I am certainly not for the government taking shit from people BUT these were not taken for the government itself. They were taken for people that are trying to save the lives of other people they don't even know. At what point does morality come into play.

What are the odds these will be found 6 months from now gathering dust in some warehouse because the politicians wanted the "shortage" to be worse so they could make some political points ?

It's not like we don't have a lot of recent examples of that behavior.

Next time there is an ammo shortage, can I go down and demand the sheriff stop hoarding it and give me my fair share ? I'll be happy to pay 1995 pricing for it.

 

[Airborneguy]

Lol. The best way to combat this pandemic is to let hasidic jew hoarders upcharge $.50 masks 700%.

Got it.

 

[Darth]

Well, without the blatant racism, the answer is yes.

And it's not "to combat the pandemic", it's to make the supplies available to all.

Scary they trust these people with guns.

 

[spat]

Lol. The best way to combat this pandemic is to let hasidic jew hoarders upcharge $.50 masks 700%.

Got it.

Actually it is.

Would you rather your friends in healthcare have masks that the hospital paid some "hasidic jew hoarders 700% for" or no masks at all ?

You don't have the option of paying the hoarder regular price, if he knows that's all he'll get he won't have risked his money hoarding them.

Collectively we have chosen "no masks and ventilators" over "expensive masks and ventilators" and people will die from that decision.

Not sure why you are cheering that on

 

[@thewheels]

Not sure why some people are so against what was done here. I am certainly not for the government taking shit from people BUT these were not taken for the government itself. They were taken for people that are trying to save the lives of other people they don't even know. At what point does morality come into play.

There's always a good reason for government overstepping isn't there?
If it saves just one life...

 

[C3D]

Who gives 2 shits what "fair market value" is? A fair market is one in which neither party is compelled to participate.

What gives them the right to your property?

Nothing.

And that is why there are laws against gouging.

 

[Darth]

And that is why there are laws against gouging.

The laws against gouging created this situation.