How does Trump take down the CIA and Spy Agencies?

[stuck in ny]

Every Agency has been political for a long time, it is not the Obama effect. Intelligence agencies are a very political breed, especially when you can twist or just make up intelligence. Trump will not, I will say it again, he will not be taking down any intelligence agency. He has been handed powers that our Founding Fathers fought against. These powers have been ever growing, growing in earnest from WWII on.

He has nominated Pompeo for CIA Director, just another continuation of the western controlled "terrorism". Trump has gone above and beyond with receiving briefings from private companies who are part of the Military Industrial Complex. Trump is not a savior, nor is he a refreshing breath. He is just a rebranded product that the public refused to buy. Just look at his nominees, a majority of them were recommended by Kissinger. They worked with Kissinger as well, Kissinger who is a war criminal.

Well, considering that if they had won I'm sure Hitlery would have had you disarmed or killed and Cruz would have had americans coming home in body bags after the next zionist land grab, Trump seems like a "savior" to my mind.

 

[ECU Pirates]

What about Nixon specifically?

Day after the break in.
Bledsoe told his story for an FBI oral-history project years later: He flipped through the overnight report on the Watergate break-in and saw that the burglars had been in possession of eavesdropping equipment. He immediately opened a criminal case file under the federal wiretapping statutes.

At four in the afternoon, Bledsoe took a call from the White House. He picked up the phone and said, "This is Agent Supervisor Dan Bledsoe. Who am I speaking with?"

"You are speaking with John Ehrlichman. Do you know who I am?" Ehrlichman was the president's right-hand man and had been Hoover's liaison to the Nixon White House. "I have a mandate from the president of the United States," he said. "The FBI is to terminate the investigation of the break-in."

Bledsoe went silent.

"Did you hear what I said?" Ehrlichman thundered. "Are you going to terminate the investigation?"

"No," Bledsoe replied. "Under the Constitution, the FBI is obligated to initiate an investigation to determine whether there has been a violation of the illegal-interception-of-communications statute."

"Do you realize that you are saying no to the president of the United States?"


"Yes."

"Bledsoe, your career is doomed."

The FBI investigation initiated that day led to the political destruction of Richard Nixon and just about everyone else who obstructed justice in his name.


No, Mr President – how the FBI bosses the White House

 

[ECU Pirates]

Maybe more than a few. The entire culture needs to change. Subordinates need to recognize and refuse illegal or unethical orders. But you are right, we need a foreign intelligence agency, and it might as well be called the CIA, and I imagine most of the rank and file can stay. They just need to be more afraid of violating the law than of disappointing their boss.

What laws are you referring to? They can get warrant even if they are laughable. The NSA seems to violate the law more in my opinion.

 

[ECU Pirates]

Which part of the Constitution authorized a 4th branch of "independent agencies" ?

The whole point of this discussion is that either they report to him, or they are dangerous rogue agencies.

Also, telling your boss he's wrong and that you cannot follow his orders doesn't mean you don't work for him.

You think they follow the constitution?! When has that mattered in foreign intelligence gathering and operations? Domestic sure. The CIA does not even report to the president. I'm more afraid of the NSA. The CIA is not the average agency.
Wiki Is not always correct but this is true:
Independent agencies of the United States federal government are those agencies that exist outside of the federal executive departments (those headed by a Cabinet secretary).[not verified in body] In a more narrow sense, the term may also be used to describe agencies that, while constitutionally part of the executive branch, are independent of presidential control, usually because the president's power to dismiss the agency head or a member is limited.[citation needed]

Independent agencies of the United States government - Wikipedia

 

[spat]

What laws are you referring to? They can get warrant even if they are laughable. The NSA seems to violate the law more in my opinion.

They don't even bother with warrants anymore, even the rubber stamp FISA court was too much bother.

Every subordinate needs to question every order with a simple "does the Constitution authorize this", and if the answer is no, they need to refuse it, or do prison time next to the guy who gave the order. This goes for every single government employee from the president down to the dog catcher.

 

[spat]

You think they follow the constitution?! When has that mattered in foreign intelligence gathering and operations? Domestic sure. The CIA does not even report to the president. I'm more afraid of the NSA. The CIA is not the average agency.
Wiki Is not always correct but this is true:
Independent agencies of the United States federal government are those agencies that exist outside of the federal executive departments (those headed by a Cabinet secretary).[not verified in body] In a more narrow sense, the term may also be used to describe agencies that, while constitutionally part of the executive branch, are independent of presidential control, usually because the president's power to dismiss the agency head or a member is limited.[citation needed]

Independent agencies of the United States government - Wikipedia

Exactly, rogue agencies. They need to be brought back under the chain of command established by the Constitution or treated like drug gangs.

 

[ECU Pirates]

They don't even bother with warrants anymore, even the rubber stamp FISA court was too much bother.

Every subordinate needs to question every order with a simple "does the Constitution authorize this", and if the answer is no, they need to refuse it, or do prison time next to the guy who gave the order. This goes for every single government employee from the president down to the dog catcher.

But for foreign operations? Warrant needed?

 

[holdover]

Day after the break in.
Bledsoe told his story for an FBI oral-history project years later: He flipped through the overnight report on the Watergate break-in and saw that the burglars had been in possession of eavesdropping equipment. He immediately opened a criminal case file under the federal wiretapping statutes.

At four in the afternoon, Bledsoe took a call from the White House. He picked up the phone and said, "This is Agent Supervisor Dan Bledsoe. Who am I speaking with?"

"You are speaking with John Ehrlichman. Do you know who I am?" Ehrlichman was the president's right-hand man and had been Hoover's liaison to the Nixon White House. "I have a mandate from the president of the United States," he said. "The FBI is to terminate the investigation of the break-in."

Bledsoe went silent.

"Did you hear what I said?" Ehrlichman thundered. "Are you going to terminate the investigation?"

"No," Bledsoe replied. "Under the Constitution, the FBI is obligated to initiate an investigation to determine whether there has been a violation of the illegal-interception-of-communications statute."

"Do you realize that you are saying no to the president of the United States?"


"Yes."

"Bledsoe, your career is doomed."

The FBI investigation initiated that day led to the political destruction of Richard Nixon and just about everyone else who obstructed justice in his name.


No, Mr President – how the FBI bosses the White House

What Ehrlichman said was an illegal order. There was s specific crime that took place and , And he was being asked to participate In a cover up. The difference is ,that the agent was doing his job by doing so.

Trump would be issueing a completely legal order on the basis of national security by removing CIA agents from their desks if they refused.

 

[Snappo]

Total speculation on my part . The idea was that the CIA is threating the president, what are the options for the president? What would you do if your the president and you had reason to believe that they were going to make an attempt on your life?

You fly immediately to Dallas TX and drive around in a convertible at like 20 mph.

 

[holdover]

Class, anybody want to explain to Snapple why that's not a good idea?

 

[Gunner57]

Class, anybody want to explain to Snapple why that's not a good idea?

Cuz the Packers just kicked the Cowboys ass?

 

[holdover]

IS he right??

 

[nfernaays]

Day after the break in.
Bledsoe told his story for an FBI oral-history project years later: He flipped through the overnight report on the Watergate break-in and saw that the burglars had been in possession of eavesdropping equipment. He immediately opened a criminal case file under the federal wiretapping statutes.

At four in the afternoon, Bledsoe took a call from the White House. He picked up the phone and said, "This is Agent Supervisor Dan Bledsoe. Who am I speaking with?"

"You are speaking with John Ehrlichman. Do you know who I am?" Ehrlichman was the president's right-hand man and had been Hoover's liaison to the Nixon White House. "I have a mandate from the president of the United States," he said. "The FBI is to terminate the investigation of the break-in."

Bledsoe went silent.

"Did you hear what I said?" Ehrlichman thundered. "Are you going to terminate the investigation?"

"No," Bledsoe replied. "Under the Constitution, the FBI is obligated to initiate an investigation to determine whether there has been a violation of the illegal-interception-of-communications statute."

"Do you realize that you are saying no to the president of the United States?"


"Yes."

"Bledsoe, your career is doomed."

The FBI investigation initiated that day led to the political destruction of Richard Nixon and just about everyone else who obstructed justice in his name.


No, Mr President – how the FBI bosses the White House

Ahhh the good old days when the FBI would actually pursue criminals...how far have they fallen!

 

[holdover]

The president can fire the director but do little else. Why didn't Obama clean house when they were spying on members of the senate?

holdover said: ↑
""There is only one way he can do it, he needs to fire everybody in leadership positions effective immediately,""

ECU Pirates said:
Since he can't do that it's impossible. He's the president elect not a dictator.


in 1981, President Ronald Reagan fired more than 11,000 air traffic controllers who ignored his order to return to work. The sweeping mass firing of federal employees slowed commercial air travel, but it did not cripple the system as the strikers had forecast.

Two days earlier, nearly 13,000 controllers walked out after talks with the Federal Aviation Administration collapsed. As a result, some 7,000 flights across the country were canceled on that day at the peak of the summer travel season.

Reagan branded the strike illegal. He threatened to fire any controller who failed to return to work within 48 hours. Federal judges levied fines of $1 million per day against the union.

In 1955, Congress made such strikes punishable by fines or a one-year jail term — a law the Supreme Court upheld in 1971.

To the chagrin of the strikers, the FAA’s contingency plans worked. Some 3,000 supervisors joined 2,000 nonstriking controllers and 900 military controllers in manning airport towers. Before long, about 80 percent of flights were operating normally. Air freight remained virtually unaffected.

In carrying out his threat, Reagan also imposed a lifetime ban on rehiring the strikers. In October 1981, the Federal Labor Relations Authority decertified PATCO.

 

[Robin]

Trump needs one Tsar, Swamp drainer! It must be thorough, complete, and with an air of permanence. Maybe then, even many big corporations in the private sector won't feel like they are being held hostage, big media included. They have infiltrated them for years to disseminate what is now called 'fake news', and just what will be 'news.
Robin

 

[holdover]

Your right he needs to pull them out of the media.

 

[ECU Pirates]

holdover said: ↑
""There is only one way he can do it, he needs to fire everybody in leadership positions effective immediately,""

ECU Pirates said:
Since he can't do that it's impossible. He's the president elect not a dictator.


in 1981, President Ronald Reagan fired more than 11,000 air traffic controllers who ignored his order to return to work. The sweeping mass firing of federal employees slowed commercial air travel, but it did not cripple the system as the strikers had forecast.

Two days earlier, nearly 13,000 controllers walked out after talks with the Federal Aviation Administration collapsed. As a result, some 7,000 flights across the country were canceled on that day at the peak of the summer travel season.

Reagan branded the strike illegal. He threatened to fire any controller who failed to return to work within 48 hours. Federal judges levied fines of $1 million per day against the union.

In 1955, Congress made such strikes punishable by fines or a one-year jail term — a law the Supreme Court upheld in 1971.

To the chagrin of the strikers, the FAA’s contingency plans worked. Some 3,000 supervisors joined 2,000 nonstriking controllers and 900 military controllers in manning airport towers. Before long, about 80 percent of flights were operating normally. Air freight remained virtually unaffected.

In carrying out his threat, Reagan also imposed a lifetime ban on rehiring the strikers. In October 1981, the Federal Labor Relations Authority decertified PATCO.

Were the strikers part on an independent agency? The FAA is part of the DOT. So I would say no.


"Independent agencies of the United States federal government are those agencies that exist outside of the federal executive departments (those headed by a Cabinet secretary).[not verified in body] In a more narrow sense, the term may also be used to describe agencies that, while constitutionally part of the executive branch, are independent of presidential control, usually because the president's power to dismiss the agency head or a member is limited"


Trump can't go to Langley and go from vault to vault saying "You're fired". It would be funny to watch him try though.

 

[spat]

What Ehrlichman said was an illegal order. There was s specific crime that took place and , And he was being asked to participate In a cover up. The difference is ,that the agent was doing his job by doing so.

Trump would be issueing a completely legal order on the basis of national security by removing CIA agents from their desks if they refused.

Ehrlichman should have done prison time for that.

OTOH, if he'd just said "you're fired, clean out your desk", then someone else would have had to prove that was done specifically to impede the investigation for it to be criminal.

Oh, and if he had just fired him, then the FBI should have assigned the case to another agent, making the firing moot.

 

[spat]

Were the strikers part on an independent agency? The FAA is part of the DOT. So I would say no.


"Independent agencies of the United States federal government are those agencies that exist outside of the federal executive departments (those headed by a Cabinet secretary).[not verified in body] In a more narrow sense, the term may also be used to describe agencies that, while constitutionally part of the executive branch, are independent of presidential control, usually because the president's power to dismiss the agency head or a member is limited"


Trump can't go to Langley and go from vault to vault saying "You're fired". It would be funny to watch him try though.

There is no authority in the constitution for such agencies to even exist. Trump could simply declare that they are illegal agencies and anyone working there who wants a job on Monday has to reapply for a legitimate agency.

 

[holdover]

Were the strikers part on an independent agency?

Yes ,they were federal employees.

 

[holdover]

Were the strikers part on an independent agency? The FAA is part of the DOT. So I would say no.


"Independent agencies of the United States federal government are those agencies that exist outside of the federal executive departments (those headed by a Cabinet secretary).[not verified in body] In a more narrow sense, the term may also be used to describe agencies that, while constitutionally part of the executive branch, are independent of presidential control, usually because the president's power to dismiss the agency head or a member is limited"

If they are getting a federal check then the president can eliminate their job. Simple.



Trump can't go to Langley and go from vault to vault saying "You're fired". It would be funny to watch him try though.

I agree it would be funny , but that's the beauty of being president. He doesn't have to. a simple memorandum is all it requires. He is acting on behalf of the people. the CIA are acting on behalf of the president, He can pull the plug anytime he wants .

 

[holdover]

The fact is, he has the ability to decimate the CIA if he wants to . The CIA is not a legal requirement . the point being that the president can initiate mass firings if he had to.

 

[Snappo]

Cuz the Packers just kicked the Cowboys ass?

I'm thinking Patriots-Falcons in the SB.

 

[Gunner57]

I'm thinking Patriots-Falcons in the SB.

Well then, you would be wrong, it'll be the Steelers & Packers.

 

[Snappo]

There is no authority in the constitution for such agencies to even exist. Trump could simply declare that they are illegal agencies and anyone working there who wants a job on Monday has to reapply for a legitimate agency.

Is that true? Why didn't the Supreme Court support de-funding CIA in USA v Richardson? Has SCOTUS ever had to decide on the legitimacy of the National Security Act of 1947? Google says Truman created the NIA and CIG and then replaced them with the CIA; but I cannot see where SCOTUS ever took a look at NIA and CIG. Only that they looked at how CIA was funded.

 

[Snappo]

Well then, you would be wrong, it'll be the Steelers & Packers.

I don't see the Squeelers getting past the Patriots at home. They couldn't even score a TD in the divisional round. They lost at Gillette in 2013, 2015, and lost at Heinz in 2016. You could take the position that Rapeburger is due since he has only beat Brady once in his entire career in 2011; but Pats at home are tough and the only person they are short right now is Gronk. I like our chances.

And speaking of the game - I can't go Sunday so if anyone wants to go to the game I have a pair of front row tickets in the end zone and I am selling them for $1,400 for the pair. They are are up on Stub Hub so if you want them let me know fast. Cash only.

 

[Gunner57]

I don't see the Squeelers getting past the Patriots at home. They couldn't even score a TD in the divisional round. They lost at Gillette in 2013, 2015, and lost at Heinz in 2016. You could take the position that Rapeburger is due since he has only beat Brady once in his entire career in 2011; but Pats at home are tough and the only person they are short right now is Gronk. I like our chances.

All I gotta say is, there were a shit ton of people who didn't think Trump had a chance either.

 

[ECU Pirates]

Trump can't just declare them illegal agencies. Read up on it. Don't pull the "constitution says" because we all know that makes no difference in the county today. Look at how it's. Violated all the time. The president has very little control of independent agencies. Congress would have more luck reining them in. I'm not saying it's a good thing. Just telling it like it is.


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[ECU Pirates]

The fact is, he has the ability to decimate the CIA if he wants to . The CIA is not a legal requirement . the point being that the president can initiate mass firings if he had to.

Prove that statement with the listed independent agencies. Cite a source that says he can just fire all the CIA.


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[ECU Pirates]

There is no authority in the constitution for such agencies to even exist. Trump could simply declare that they are illegal agencies and anyone working there who wants a job on Monday has to reapply for a legitimate agency.

They are technically part of the executive branch. You think they
Might have been set up this way intentionally? Maybe to prevent s president from having too much control.


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