How does Trump take down the CIA and Spy Agencies?

[Drinkthekoolaid]

If 1/10th of this article is accurate it may be an interesting few days and weeks...

Heads Up Warnings & Attacks Coming From All Directions - "It Has Started, Intel Agencies On The Warpath"

 

[holdover]

Prove that statement with the listed independent agencies. Cite a source that says he can just fire all the CIA.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

legal precedence.

On December 7, 2006, the George W. Bush administration's Department of Justice ordered the unprecedented midterm dismissal of seven United States Attorneys. Congressional investigations focused on whether the Department of Justice and the White House were using the U.S. Attorney positions for political advantage. Allegations were that some of the attorneys were targeted for dismissal to impede investigations of Republican politicians or that some were targeted for their failure to initiate investigations that would damage Democratic politicians or hamper Democratic-leaning voters.The U.S. attorneys were replaced with interim appointees, under provisions in the 2005 USA PATRIOT Act reauthorization.



Trump Can't Shut Federal Agencies. But He Can Turn Them Off.

Dismissal of U.S. attorneys controversy - Wikipedia

On 11 April 1951, U.S. President Harry S. Truman relieved General of the Army Douglas MacArthur of his commands after MacArthur made public statements which contradicted the administration's policies. MacArthur was a popular hero of World War II who was then the commander of United Nations forces fighting in the Korean War, and his relief remains a controversial topic in the field of civil-military relation

.President Truman's relief of General Douglas MacArthur - Wikipedia


WASHINGTON — President Obama on Wednesday fired his top Afghanistan war commander after only a brief meeting in the Oval Office, replacing Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal with his boss and mentor, Gen. David H. Petraeus, and sending a clear signal that the current war strategy will continue despite setbacks and growing public doubts.

President Ronald Reagan fired more than 11,000 air traffic controllers who ignored his order to return to work. The sweeping mass firing of federal employees slowed commercial air travel, but it did not cripple the system as the strikers had forecast.


William S. Sessions. William Steele Sessions (born May 27, 1930) served as a federal judge and fourth Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Sessions served as FBI director from 1987 to 1993, when he was dismissed by President Bill Clinton.

William S. Sessions - Wikipedia

while constitutionally part of the executive branch, are independent of presidential control, usually because the president's power to dismiss the agency head or a member is limited.

How do you dump the FBI director?


Not only can the president dismiss agents , If he deems them a security risk to the himself or the country it is his DUTY to do so! There are a shit ton of legal precedents where The president can dismiss agents of the government. for various reasons . Independent or not. If he deems them a threat, he can take whatever action needed to secure that that .

The president of the united states is the represented voice of the people. The bucks stops there. can you cite where and why the boss of the executive branch cannot exercise His powers of office over the executive branch?

 

[spat]

They are technically part of the executive branch. You think they
Might have been set up this way intentionally? Maybe to prevent s president from having too much control.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They were obviously set up that way intentionally to reduce the president's control. The point is that the constitution doesn't authorize any such thing.

 

[ECU Pirates]

Not one mention of the CIA or any other independent agency in the links. You act like he can walk in and clean house as the CIA. Sorry holdover.

 

[ECU Pirates]

There is actually some talk that the feud is a farce. Trump needs agencies like the CIA more than ever (or since the cold war) due to his foreign policies. Some are speculating he want the black budget expanded. That could be a stretch but maybe not.

 

[ECU Pirates]

They were obviously set up that way intentionally to reduce the president's control. The point is that the constitution doesn't authorize any such thing.

But does it expressly forbid it? Certain things they do sure, but the organization as a whole?

 

[spat]

But does it expressly forbid it? Certain things they do sure, but the organization as a whole?

The 10th Amendment specifically says the feds have only specific enumerated powers, so if it isn't explicitly allowed, then it is forbidden (and exactly the opposite for citizens, with states somewhere in between).

The whole point of the Constitution is that everyone in the evecutive branch is accountable to an elected official, and ultimately the electorate. The whole concept of an independent agency flies in the face of that.

Maybe if there was a constitutional ammendment, and the head of the agency was elected, but otherwise, they are a rogue agency no matter how many times someone in .gov says otherwise.

 

[ECU Pirates]

The 10th Amendment specifically says the feds have only specific enumerated powers, so if it isn't explicitly allowed, then it is forbidden (and exactly the opposite for citizens, with states somewhere in between).

The whole point of the Constitution is that everyone in the evecutive branch is accountable to an elected official, and ultimately the electorate. The whole concept of an independent agency flies in the face of that.

Maybe if there was a constitutional ammendment, and the head of the agency was elected, but otherwise, they are a rogue agency no matter how many times someone in .gov says otherwise.

That may be true. I need to read up more on it. I read some that said they are constitutional because of other reasons (can't recall all of them right now). One said congress can defund them and the president can fire the director of intelligence. Look at the list of other independent agencies. I was surprised by a few. No matter what though, no supreme court will rule that they violate the 10th. Not even with Trump appointees.

 

[ECU Pirates]

At least they get something right haha

CIA: Repeat After Me. The NYPD Is NOT A REAL Intelligence Agency.

 

[spat]

That may be true. I need to read up more on it. I read some that said they are constitutional because of other reasons (can't recall all of them right now). One said congress can defund them and the president can fire the director of intelligence. Look at the list of other independent agencies. I was surprised by a few. No matter what though, no supreme court will rule that they violate the 10th. Not even with Trump appointees.

The Supreme Court let's them get away with a lot of things, doesn't mean it's legal.

They locked up everyone with Japanese ancestry, nobody went to prison for that.

They confiscated all the privately owned gold, nothing there either.

Using "they got away with it before" as the yardstick of whats legitimate basically says they can do whatever the hell they want.

Hell, Trump could deploy FDR's SCOTUS nuclear option and up the number of justices to 15 and get them to agree he can fire all of congress, but that wouldn't make it legitimate.....

 

[ECU Pirates]

The Supreme Court let's them get away with a lot of things, doesn't mean it's legal.

They locked up everyone with Japanese ancestry, nobody went to prison for that.

They confiscated all the privately owned gold, nothing there either.

Using "they got away with it before" as the yardstick of whats legitimate basically says they can do whatever the hell they want.

Hell, Trump could deploy FDR's SCOTUS nuclear option and up the number of justices to 15 and get them to agree he can fire all of congress, but that wouldn't make it legitimate.....

I'm not disagreeing. Just trying to stay in the real world. It's not going away and he can't fire everyone (as you know). I also think Trump will expand the black budget the more I think about it.

 

[spat]

I'm not disagreeing. Just trying to stay in the real world. It's not going away and he can't fire everyone (as you know). I also think Trump will expand the black budget the more I think about it.

It remains to be seen how much house cleaning trump can manage, but I think it will be more limited by how much effort he chooses to direct than by an actual hard limit on the power of the office.

I said earlier that we need a national intelligence agency, and we might as well call it the CIA however it is comprised.

I completely agree that it isn't going away, the only question is how thorough a scrubbing it's upper echelons get.

 

[Jmac00]

The last president that took on the intelligence community BEFORE taking office......was John F. Kennedy. Look how that turned out???

just making an observation

 

[ECU Pirates]

The last president that took on the intelligence community BEFORE taking office......was John F. Kennedy. Look how that turned out???

just making an observation

If they wanted to kill him it would have been much sooner. How long was he in office? 2.5 years?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[holdover]

I'm not disagreeing. Just trying to stay in the real world. It's not going away and he can't fire everyone (as you know). I also think Trump will expand the black budget the more I think about it.

You know what ?stop talking out of your ass. if there was threat to national security from the CIA they could and would be fired . Period. End of fucking story . there is no argument there. At all , WHY? because they are breaking the fucking law and endangering the country .

I don't want to hear how the law is going to protect a lawbreaker. Its not gonna happen . The president takes ultimate president over any agency . The life of the president and the continuity of government outweighs any argument you have . End of story.


You telling me the president is powerless to protect the country and himself if he believes he is facing a direct threat ? Get real.

 

[holdover]

The last president that took on the intelligence community BEFORE taking office......was John F. Kennedy. Look how that turned out???

just making an observation

Actually it was after the bay of pigs , when he found out that they lied to him .

 

[ECU Pirates]

You know what ?stop talking out of your ass. if there was threat to national security from the CIA they could and would be fired . Period. End of fucking story . there is no argument there. At all , WHY? because they are breaking the fucking law and endangering the country .

I don't want to hear how the law is going to protect a lawbreaker. Its not gonna happen . The president takes ultimate president over any agency . The life of the president and the continuity of government outweighs any argument you have . End of story.

WRONG.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[holdover]

bullshit

 

[ECU Pirates]

Ohhhh holdover thinks the CIA is putting his life in danger? Tinfoil time!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[holdover]

That was the whole point of the conversation !! cant you read??

 

[holdover]

what could he do if he felt his life was in danger from the CIA? I said fire them, that's how it started.

 

[holdover]

You think he would do nothing and get whacked? LOL what planet are you from?

 

[ECU Pirates]

I didn't think you were saying they are going to kill him. Of course if someone had proof they were endangering the president they would be fired. Good luck ever getting any proof. I don't think they are in the business of killing Americans.... well not on our own soil and not the president.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ECU Pirates]

Holdover, do you think the CIA is planning on killing trump? If so why?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ECU Pirates]

That was the whole point of the conversation !! cant you read??

I can read well enough to know about independent agencies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ECU Pirates]

Admittedly I read most of this thread on my phone and on company time (not thoroughly). I saw fake news and news organizations mentioned. I didn't think anyone actually thought the CIA was going to kill the guy. I don't want a president to be able to just fire all intelligence agency employees (or even most of them) just because of a theory or without any proof. That's how we get dictators. We also need checks on them. If there was some credible evidence that they were plotting on him, sure he could do something. Without it not much could be done. If evidence did make it's way out then they would not be good at their jobs. The CIA will not want to take out Trump.

1. Trump's director is starting tomorrow.

2. The CIA loves Trump. He's going to do great things to increase their numbers and budget. Make the CIA great again. We went from Obama bending over to the worlds bad actors to Trump taking a stand (Russia might be an odd situation though).

3. The CIA hated and hates Clinton and Obama. The rank and file didn't forget the Benghazi lies and cover-up.

4. The CIA backs Israel. So does Trump.

5. The CIA is against the Iran deal, so is Trump.

The list goes on and on.

 

[holdover]

Holdover, do you think the CIA is planning on killing trump? If so why?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No not necessarily, I have absolutely zero evidence of it. the idea was just being floated . He was pissed about the Russian hacking fake news , and Trump mentioned that he was going to dismantle the CIA. We saw what happened the last time somebody said that , so the idea was being entertained as what should he do if that was the case? That's all its about. The idea stems from the following :


The new leader of Democrats in the Senate says Donald Trump is being "really dumb" for picking a fight with intelligence officials, suggesting they have ways to strike back, after the president-elect speculated Tuesday that his "so-called" briefing about Russian cyberattacks had been delayed in order to build a case.

"Let me tell you: You take on the intelligence community — they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you," said Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer

Schumer warns Trump: Intel officials 'have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you'


Trump’s transition team is reportedly discussing how to remove the Cabinet-level position and incorporate its responsibilities into the intelligence agencies it currently oversees, according to both sources.

The process will be “long and messy,” the former intelligence official told The Intercept, but Trump’s team is confident it will be successful.

The office — which was formed under former President George W. Bush in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks — has long been a source of friction in the intelligence community, where some see it as unnecessary bureaucracy.

The ODNI was a key recommendation of the 9/11 Commission Report, intended to facilitate smoother information-sharing between the 16 agencies that make up the U.S. intelligence community.

But critics have characterized it as lacking sufficient authority to lead the sprawling U.S. intelligence apparatus effectively. The ODNI maintains control of the national intelligence budget, but lacks the power to direct any element of the intelligence community — including hiring and firing personnel — beyond its own staff.

Unwinding the agency would reverse a 2004 law passed by Congress establishing the role.

Trump on Friday morning announced his pick of Kansas Republican Rep. Mike Pompeo (R-Kan.) to lead the CIA but made no announcement for the DNI position. Prior to 2004, the CIA director was the head of the intelligence community.

According to the former senior official who spoke to The Intercept, the transition team is also considering reversing reforms undertaken in the CIA under current Director John Brennan. In 2015, the spy agency embarked on sweeping reforms intended to expand the focus on digital espionage.

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/306767-trump-weighs-dismantling-top-spy-agency-report



Donald Trump’s national security team is discussing plans to dismantle the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, the organization that was created in response to the 9/11 attacks, according to an adviser to the president-elect and a former senior intelligence official. The news comes as the current director of national intelligence, James Clapper, announced his resignation Thursday.

The Trump national security team has been meeting in recent days, planning the removal of the cabinet-level position and assessing how to fold parts of the organization into the 16 federal intelligence agencies it oversees, according to both people with knowledge of the plans. If the restructuring is accomplished, it would undo legislation passed by Congress in 2004, dismantle the biggest American intelligence bureaucracy created since the end of World War II, and roll back a key recommendation of the 9/11 Commission.

The national security team believes the effort will be “long and messy” but is confident it will be successful, according to the former senior U.S. intelligence official who is consulting with those involved in the transition.


Donald Trump Plans Revamp of Top U.S. Spy Agency

British politician George Galloway has warned Donald Trump the American deep state is engaged in a “soft coup d’etat” and the CIA is planning to a*sassinate him.
I’d be very careful if I was Donald Trump about my personal security. I think I’d have to employ guards to guard the guards.“

Galloway, who has served 31 years as an elected British Member of Parliament, also dismissed claims that Russia was interfering in US politics – and instead pointed the finger at British intelligence services

British Politician Warns Trump ‘CIA Is Plotting Assassination’ – Anonymous



CIA head John Brennan warns Trump to watch his tongue

CIA Director John Brennan has warned US President-elect Donald Trump to avoid off-the-cuff remarks once he takes office.

He said spontaneity was not in the interests of national security.

Mr Trump is known for regularly making broad pronouncements on issues of national importance on his Twitter feed.

Mr Brennan also said that Mr Trump did not fully appreciate Russia's capabilities or intentions.

"I think Mr Trump has to understand that absolving Russia of various actions that it's taken in the past number of years is a road that he, I think, needs to be very, very careful about moving down," he said.

"What I do find outrageous is equating the intelligence community with Nazi Germany," he said, referring to a tweet by Mr Trump last Wednesday.

CIA head John Brennan warns Trump to watch his tongue - BBC News

Donald J. TrumpVerified account ‏@realDonaldTrump Jan 11


Intelligence agencies should never have allowed this fake news to "leak" into the public. One last shot at me.Are we living in Nazi Germany?


Trump Engages CIA in War of Words Over Russian Election Hacking
Trump Engages CIA in War of Words Over Russian Election Hacking

 

[holdover]

I can read well enough to know about independent agencies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But not enough to know that if they were suspected of a plot against the president or were unloyal to the country in any way ,the president has EVERY legal right to dismiss them immediately . which is what we were talking about to begin with, not as a normal course of action which I think you took it,to be .

 

[Gunright]

The Supreme Court let's them get away with a lot of things, doesn't mean it's legal.

They locked up everyone with Japanese ancestry, nobody went to prison for that.

They confiscated all the privately owned gold, nothing there either.

Using "they got away with it before" as the yardstick of whats legitimate basically says they can do whatever the hell they want.

Hell, Trump could deploy FDR's SCOTUS nuclear option and up the number of justices to 15 and get them to agree he can fire all of congress, but that wouldn't make it legitimate.....

Congress (house and senate) determine the number of justices on the supreme court. It originally was 6 (Judiciary Act of 1789), then changed in 1807 to 7, then changed to 9 in 1837, to 10 in 1863, back down to 7 in 1866 (as a way of preventing Andrew Johnson from making any appointments), back to 9 in 1869, and has stayed there since. FDR tried to get congress to change it to allow it to go up to 15, but congress did not pass this legislation.

 

[Robin]

Brennan should be investigated, shooting his mouth of like that is unprecedented. Commie asshole!
Robin