Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
They should. The answer isn’t to try to make something impossible to ban illegal so that it doesn’t happen as much.
How to Fix This Country
- Thread starter Marine Cpl
- Start date
Toecutter
.308 Win
California illegal pot problem stems from the state taxing the shit out of it and making permits epa inspection fines so bad that its easier to sell illegally. I know pot farmers ,i have friends that moved to Colorado to do just that.
Either way the government doesn’t get to tell people how to live their lives. They dont have the right to pass drug laws . If they want to outlaw drugs amend the constitution like they did with alcohol. That is liberty. If someone isn’t stealing or harming people let them do what they want. Why is it people in this country are ok with drinking their face off but not ok with other drugs its the same exact thing.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Cigarettes are sold illegally because they are taxed to high heaven. You do not see people buying bootleg liquor because it’s reasonably taxed. Also in states where pot is legal, it’s legal due to needing a prescription for it. If they took that requirement away, the black market would be even less.
None of this will be fixed unless the global elite want it. They are the puppet masters.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Those junkies that bust into cars will do so whether it’s illegal or legal. Making it illegal clearly doesn’t stop those junkies from busting into cars.
But making it legal now doesn’t fill our jails with possession and it stops drug raids, car searches, and every charge on a police officer whether justified or unjustified regarding right’s violations because such person will now not be arrested.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I’m not sure that I can agree with you on the police punishment part for an arrest where the person turns out to be innocent. People come out innocent everyday. That would totally ruin arrests for those that are guilty. What should happen is a payout for the inconvenience after a trial finds them not guilty.
kev74
20×102mm Vulcan
Two things that are causing the continuation of black market sales:
1- Its still illegal federally. Unless you want to be on a list, risk prosecution, fail a NICS, etc., the pusher man is still the safer bet.
2- States that have legalized it have bastardized the market. Prices are higher, selection is lower, and there are multiple hoops to jump through with prescriptions, registration, quantity limits, etc.
If they let Walgreens sell it like cough drops, the dealers would be looking for new lines of work.
Defending bad policy with bad policy.
The amount of tax collected on legal weed should be 0%.
How would that ruin an arrest for a guilty party?
Again, defending bad policy with bad policy.
You can't legalize something, tax the shit out of it, and be all:
...when people still choose the cheaper option.
spat
.950 JDJ
There are different standards for a reason.
The ideal standard would be factual guilt, but that is an impossible standard to meet.
So, we set "probable cause" for arrest, and "reasonable doubt" for conviction.
What should happen to an officer who makes an arrest without probable cause ? I'm not sure, but it certainly shouldn't be "nothing".
Then, how do we determine if they had probable cause or not ?
I've got some ideas on how that sort of thing should be measured, but they would require other changes in the way the justice system works before they would be practical.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Because many times you do not really know they are guilty but circumstances at first glance point to their guilt.
For example. A cop shows up to a stabbing. When he gets to the scene, their is a man on top of a woman. She is unconscious. There is no one else around. The knife is beside him. Should the cops let him go because they didn’t see the stabbing and they do not want to lose their jobs like you said by arresting him if it may not be him?
That guy could be a consoling boyfriend. He could also be a murdering boyfriend. No one knows until the facts come out in trial. That’s what trials are for.
I'm not sure if you are aware, but cops actually have to let such people go when their is no evidence that they did the crime in question.
@spat
We already have reams of court precedent and law which establish probable cause. Why would that suddenly need to be redefined?
I actually discussed probable cause on an ID theft case as I was walking out the door today to go to the protest detail while only half listening to the story, that’s how routine it becomes.
Establishing probable cause depends on what crime is alleged anyway.
We already have reams of court precedent and law which establish probable cause. Why would that suddenly need to be redefined?
I actually discussed probable cause on an ID theft case as I was walking out the door today to go to the protest detail while only half listening to the story, that’s how routine it becomes.
Establishing probable cause depends on what crime is alleged anyway.
No offense, I get your point, but poor example.
The facts in this scenario would be investigated long before the trial. He’d certainly be cuffed, but not arrested/charged until more could be established.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Not when there is circumstantial evidence.
Again, no.
And to be clear, on the question of "Should the cops let him go because they didn’t see the stabbing and they do not want to lose their jobs like you said by arresting him if it may not be him?" I'd rather let 1,000 guilty people go than 1 innocent be "oops"ed.
Today’s incident is a great example of establishing probable cause fwiw.
Woman was reporting that her ex opened a credit card in her name and ran it up. Normally this is a hard scenario to establish a perp for initially. The cop was putting the boyfriend down as a suspect and I asked why. He showed me the bill with her name and his address listed. I said that’s not enough. He kept telling me “but it’s his address.” I said again, that’s not enough. Then she said “but I was at his house and took this bill from there while arguing with him over it.” I said ok, that’s enough now because she’s willing to swear that he acknowledged having the bill in his possession.
Woman was reporting that her ex opened a credit card in her name and ran it up. Normally this is a hard scenario to establish a perp for initially. The cop was putting the boyfriend down as a suspect and I asked why. He showed me the bill with her name and his address listed. I said that’s not enough. He kept telling me “but it’s his address.” I said again, that’s not enough. Then she said “but I was at his house and took this bill from there while arguing with him over it.” I said ok, that’s enough now because she’s willing to swear that he acknowledged having the bill in his possession.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Read AB’s scenario above. Now it was enough. But later in trial it turns out that she lied. Should the cop get fired?
If the cop made the arrest, yes.
If I end someones life based on what later turns out to be a lie, do I get to "oops" my way out of it? Hell no.
I mean do you really have to ask? Ignore him. It’s retardedness.
If you want examples of probable cause, give me scenarios. I’m bored in a van on overtime again in Brooklyn.
I hate getting into these as well. I posted a video last night, Seattle is dying. Proof positive that much of these ideas will not work.
Some really dumb things have been said in this thread. It is as if people have no clue at all about the real life.
I do not know all, heel, I'm not even sure that I am all that smart, I do know this, nearly nothing that has been posted in this thread work work to solve anything in the real world.
Want to really solve some issues?
Death penalty.
No saving lives of Overdoses. Ever.
No free medical, let people to their own whims.
No welfare,
No food stamps.
No free needles.
No free anything.
Get rid of every single gun law and regulation in the US.
Alter nearly every self defense law.
No mandatory Social Security buy in.
Term Limits to include the Supreme Court.
All tax payer funded budgets need to be balanced. 100% of the time.
Build more jails and prisons. Mandatory sentencing.
Abolish Plea deals.
Cap what can be spent on all elections.
Hold the press to a standard of truth.
I can't think of anymore off the top of my head.
Some really dumb things have been said in this thread. It is as if people have no clue at all about the real life.
I do not know all, heel, I'm not even sure that I am all that smart, I do know this, nearly nothing that has been posted in this thread work work to solve anything in the real world.
Want to really solve some issues?
Death penalty.
No saving lives of Overdoses. Ever.
No free medical, let people to their own whims.
No welfare,
No food stamps.
No free needles.
No free anything.
Get rid of every single gun law and regulation in the US.
Alter nearly every self defense law.
No mandatory Social Security buy in.
Term Limits to include the Supreme Court.
All tax payer funded budgets need to be balanced. 100% of the time.
Build more jails and prisons. Mandatory sentencing.
Abolish Plea deals.
Cap what can be spent on all elections.
Hold the press to a standard of truth.
I can't think of anymore off the top of my head.
spat
.950 JDJ
We need to redefine a lot of stuff before we will have a functional justice system again.
My preference would be to scrap it all and start from first principles.
Agreed. In these hypotheticals I always say err on the side of freedom.
spat
.950 JDJ
And simplicity.
The fact that we have "reams of precedent" on probable cause suggests that we do not have a good definition.
Like sticking your finger in all the holes popping up in the dyke.
Knock it down, start over and maybe we'll consider various oddball scenarios.
DrBleachCocktail
.44 mag
Because alcohol doesn’t stay in your system long and other drugs fuck you up in a short period of time liberals way of thinking. I’m obviously being sarcastic.
Saltwater60
20×102mm Vulcan
There plenty of states right now that allow recreational use of weed no prescription. If you’re going to argue this at least know the facts. Also bootleg liquor is still a thing. Not so much in the north but a lot of the rest of the country it is. Also lots and lots of home brewers and wine makers.
Keep in mind you’ll never get the states to not tax drugs. Never. Legalizing these items will cost $$ from police and medical calls and it should be taxed to pay for that. I won’t touch the stuff either way so I should have to pay for it.
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Saltwater60
20×102mm Vulcan
Good luck with that. You and I know that will never happen
Saltwater60
20×102mm Vulcan
I’m not defending anything. I’m posting facts and what’s currently occurring and what I feel will continue to occur.
If people here feel legalizing drugs will prevent crime it won’t because it’s too costly to do it the government’s way and there will still be a black market and drug dealer lead by gangs. It’s not my policy it’s not what I want I’m just saying that’s what will continue to happen.