I like the 40 S&W

[Greywolf224]

Disable a person? I'd rather stop the threat entirely. That's what I was trained to do. A dead man can't come back to get you later.

To each his own. In civilian life it seems to be a bit different. They seem to come back at you harder when they are dead than when they’re alive. Mentally physically emotionally.

Everyone talks a big game about what they going to do when it happens. Let’s see what one does when it does happen.

 

[Marine Cpl]

To each his own. In civilian life it seems to be a bit different. They seem to come back at you harder when they are dead than when they’re alive. Mentally physically emotionally.

Everyone talks a big game about what they going to do when it happens. Let’s see what one does when it does happen.

So what is it that you are saying exactly? You won't shoot center mass? You'll shoot at the legs or arms?

If that isn't the case and you shoot center mass, you shoot to kill.

 

[dsdmmat]

So what is it that you are saying exactly? You won't shoot center mass? You'll shoot at the legs or arms?

If that isn't the case and you shoot center mass, you shoot to kill.

Legalese says the correct answer is "shooting to stop the threat." No other answer is recommended.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I wasnt aware we were on trial here. But regardless, in a trial you either are justified in using deadly force or you aren't. You aren't going to get off if you shoot someone in the leg after a verbal argument. It's either you are justified to shoot him to kill him or you aren't. Whether he lives or dies is neither here nor there.

 

[Greywolf224]

My intent is always stop the threat in every possible case. To kill is not my first option.

No if I can make a split second decision I will not go for Center mass, rather the shooting arm, shoulder or leg.

 

[Uzi]

Legalese says the correct answer is "shooting to stop the threat." No other answer is recommended.

That is the correct answer.

You're not being assigned a special operations mission by the government. A concealed handgun is designed to defend yourself and stop a threat. Killing someone that you shot at is a positive side effect, albeit it's not the priority over defending your safety. People that say "shoot to kill" as a priority for civilian concealed carry need more training in the classroom. If the threat is incapacitated, you probably would be in the wrong to finish off the magazine into their head for good measure while being video recorded outside the gas station convenience store.

 

[Marine Cpl]

OMG. You either are justified in shooting center mass or you aren't. It's really that simple. What happens after that happens.

 

[dsdmmat]

OMG. You either are justified in shooting center mass or you aren't. It's really that simple. What happens after that happens.

Anything you say or "post" can and will be used against you. Hence the shoot to stop the threat is the preferred language whenever talking about shooting any living animal in defense of your life.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Anything you say or "post" can and will be used against you. Hence the shoot to stop the threat is the preferred language whenever talking about shooting any living animal.

Ok. I guess I'm fucked now for admitting that if my life is in danger and I feel justified in using DEADLY physical force which is in the Penal Law, I would do so and fire at the biggest area of a body. Center mass.

 

[dsdmmat]

Ok. I guess I'm fucked now for admitting that if my life is in danger and I feel justified in using DEADLY physical force which is in the Penal Law, I would do so and fire at the biggest area of a body. Center mass.

probably, depends on the DA. You can stop the threat from advancing on your position with a shot to the pelvis, center mass or the brainstem, in any case your intent should always be to stop the threat.

 

[GOPerfect]

My intent is always stop the threat in every possible case. To kill is not my first option.

No if I can make a split second decision I will not go for Center mass, rather the shooting arm, shoulder or leg.

I will always shoot center mass or head. Never a limb. Shoot the right arm, the bad guy still has a left arm. Center mass to stop all threats.

 

[Marine Cpl]

probably, depends on the DA. You can stop the threat from advancing on your position with a shot to the pelvis, center mass or the brainstem, in any case your intent should always be to stop the threat.

The DA is going to determine if you were justified in using "Deadly Physical Force" rather than stopping a threat as it's being said here which isn't in the penal law.

That justification could be his or her decision or a Jury's.

There is nothing in the penal law about stopping threats. It's either justification in Deadly Physical Force or nothing.

 

[dsdmmat]

The DA is going to determine if you were justified in using "Deadly Physical Force" rather than stopping a threat as it's being said here which isn't in the penal law.

That justification could be his or her decision or a Jury's.

There is nothing in the penal law about stopping threats. It's either justification in Deadly Physical Force or nothing.

You are correct, and it is your words that will be used against you in the civil trial that will come after you beat the criminal trial. There are always three trials you will go through after a deadly force encounter, Criminal, Civil and in the Court of Public Opinion. You want to be able to defend yourself in all three.

If Someone posts on an open site they use the 9mm loaded with super shot exploding bullets because it is the greatest man killer combination on earth you can bet it will be found and used against them in all three trials after the incident.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I've never heard of that but in the interest of not going back and forth over and over I will just say. OK. I'm not concerned.

 

[dsdmmat]

I've never heard of that but in the interest of not going back and forth over and over I will just say. OK. I'm not concerned.

Neither am I, everyone makes choices and they live with the consequences of those choices.

 

[dsdmmat]

I will always shoot center mass or head. Never a limb. Shoot the right arm, the bad guy still has a left arm. Center mass to stop all threats.

Shots to the limbs are very hard to make under normal circumstances, that is what normally makes them a poor choice when shooting under duress. When you are being held accountable for each and every bullet that comes out of your gun I would have to say choosing a limb to aim at would not be the best decision that one could make. That combined with the potential for a through and through shot would make it stack up as a bad decision in my book.

 

[Greywolf224]

Great discussion all great key points.
But I really need to ask if all CCW folks really have ever asked themselves the question and really forced themselves to come out with an honest answer.
“ To defend myself My intent is to always aim for a kill “

 

[Robin]

I rarely use 'always' and 'never', life and circumstance are too transitory.
Robin

 

[Edwardteach72]

You are correct, and it is your words that will be used against you in the civil trial that will come after you beat the criminal trial. There are always three trials you will go through after a deadly force encounter, Criminal, Civil and in the Court of Public Opinion. You want to be able to defend yourself in all three.

If Someone posts on an open site they use the 9mm loaded with super shot exploding bullets because it is the greatest man killer combination on earth you can bet it will be found and used against them in all three trials after the incident.

can you provide court cases and evidence of your statement?

 

[dsdmmat]

can you provide court cases and evidence of your statement?

Elonis v. United States (United States Supreme Court): Social Media Posts and Specific Criminal Intent?
Search social media posts used as evidence against a defendant and you will find a lot more cases.
Is Social Media Evidence Admissible in Court? - Social Media Information

 

[Marine Cpl]

Elonis v. United States (United States Supreme Court): Social Media Posts and Specific Criminal Intent?
Search social media posts used as evidence against a defendant and you will find a lot more cases.
Is Social Media Evidence Admissible in Court? - Social Media Information

That's a bit more personal when you post music videos about killing your wife, actually killing her shortly after compared to saying you are going to kill someone if they want to kill you by aiming center mass at vitals if defending yourself when your life is on the line.

 

[dsdmmat]

That's a bit more personal when you post music videos about killing your wife, actually killing her shortly after compared to saying you are going to kill someone if they want to kill you by aiming center mass at vitals if defending yourself when your life is on the line.

Just an example of how social media posts can and will be used against you.

 

[zzrguy]

I going 40 cause if prefer to punch big holes in thing.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I going 40 cause if prefer to punch big holes in thing.

 

[dsdmmat]

proving that 9mm punches the smallest holes.

 

[Marine Cpl]

proving that 9mm punches the smallest holes.

Yep. By a minut amount measured in millimetres. The human body isn't going to know the difference when either the FMJ of all 3 calibers penetrates both sides of a body or a hollow point of all 3 calibers penetrates between 12 to 18 inches inside in a body.

Your body will however with the recoil put on your wrists affecting follow up shots and your magazine will as well when it can only accept 7 or 8 instead of 10 or 15 to 17 depending on if you follow the law or not.

 

[dsdmmat]

Yep. By a minut amount measured in millimetres. The human body isn't going to know the difference when either the FMJ of all 3 calibers penetrates both sides of a body or a hollow point of all 3 calibers penetrates between 12 to 18 inches in a body.

Your body will however with the recoil put on your wrists affecting follow up shots and your magazine will as well when it can only accept 7 or 8 instead of 10 or 15 to 17 depending on if you follow the law or not.

OH come on now admit that you use the 9mm to produce the least amount of damage while stopping the threat.

 

[nortatoga]

The DA is going to determine if you were justified in using "Deadly Physical Force" rather than stopping a threat as it's being said here which isn't in the penal law.

That justification could be his or her decision or a Jury's.

There is nothing in the penal law about stopping threats. It's either justification in Deadly Physical Force or nothing.

As you said justification could be decided by the DA or a Jury's! With either but more so the Jury your words are very important!

Have you ever sat through a Article 35 lecture? If not you and anyone who carries should!

 

[Marine Cpl]

OH come on now admit that you use the 9mm to produce the least amount of damage while stopping the threat.

And I want you to admit you use the .45 to produce the least amount of damage while stopping a threat after it fails to penetrate a barrier.

 

[dsdmmat]

Depending on my employment situation next year I will be looking to get one of these. 1911 TRP™ 10mm - Springfield Armory Probably in the 6 inch version.

 

[dsdmmat]

And I want you to admit you use the .45 to produce the least amount of damage while stopping a threat after it fails to penetrate a barrier.

I don't shoot through barriers, it may be impossible to see what is behind the barrier. Therefore it may/ would be irresponsible to do so.