Just a place to talk about Kalashnikov rifles

[Edwardteach72]

So had some downtime today and I got to thinking (@Farmandguns1 thread didnt help any) how much I really love comblock guns, specifically Kalashnikov type rifles/"pistols"

Not planning a this vs that debate. I will personally concede that there are many things that the AR does better.... with that said.

There is something about the Kalashnikov design that I keep getting drawn to and wish I owned more than just a saiga 7.62x39, i wish I snagged one up in 5.45x39 and even one of the .308 and 7.62x54r.

For such a an old design that hasn't been able to keep up and adapt as much as the original AR design the AK platforms are still such a viable fighting rifle especially when looking at other versions such as the Galil.


Sorry I thought I was going to go somewhere with this other than I love the Kalashnikov type rifles and even after 70+ it holds it's own even with the AR/M16/M4.....

 

[Farmandguns1]

So had some downtime today and I got to thinking (@Farmandguns1 thread didnt help any) how much I really love comblock guns, specifically Kalashnikov type rifles/"pistols"

Not planning a this vs that debate. I will personally concede that there are many things that the AR does better.... with that said.

There is something about the Kalashnikov design that I keep getting drawn to and wish I owned more than just a saiga 7.62x39, i wish I snagged one up in 5.45x39 and even one of the .308 and 7.62x54r.

For such a an old design that hasn't been able to keep up and adapt as much as the original AR design the AK platforms are still such a viable fighting rifle especially when looking at other versions such as the Galil.


Sorry I thought I was going to go somewhere with this other than I love the Kalashnikov type rifles and even after 70+ it holds it's own even with the AR/M16/M4.....

Right on! I have a few ARs and now more AKs. ARs are superior in a lot of ways. Accuracy, optics mounting, price (yes price)...the list goes on. With that said I enjoy shooting AKs more and I think the AKs (especially saigas) make a better featureless rifle. I really like my 223 saiga. Steel cased wolf 223 is around 18 cents per round. AKs eat steel better. Can’t beat that.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Greetings from Russia.

 

[Farmandguns1]

Greetings from Russia.

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F*ck yeah

 

[Edwardteach72]

Right on! I have a few ARs and now more AKs. ARs are superior in a lot of ways. Accuracy, optics mounting, price (yes price)...the list goes on. With that said I enjoy shooting AKs more and I think the AKs (especially saigas) make a better featureless rifle. I really like my 223 saiga. Steel cased wolf 223 is around 18 cents per round. AKs eat steel better. Can’t beat that.

AR reloads are also much more intuitive, but with training that is a moot point as well same with safety levers.


Hell even having an AK pattern in 5.56 isn't sacrilegious the fins did it and so didn't Israel

 

[Podmonkey]

Right on! I have a few ARs and now more AKs. ARs are superior in a lot of ways. Accuracy, optics mounting, price (yes price)...the list goes on. With that said I enjoy shooting AKs more and I think the AKs (especially saigas) make a better featureless rifle. I really like my 223 saiga. Steel cased wolf 223 is around 18 cents per round. AKs eat steel better. Can’t beat that.

As long as you have a side rail that is properly attached straight and true and using mounts from RS Regulate mounting optics is as easy as an AR.
As for AKs eating steel better, it is more about case shape. Steel cases extract more easily with a more pronounced taper to the case. Start feeding Kalashnikovs steel case NATO types and the same problems can exist as on an AR.

Greetings from Russia.

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Thar is a very nice collection.

 

[Farmandguns1]

As long as you have a side rail that is properly attached straight and true and using mounts from RS Regulate mounting optics is as easy as an AR.
As for AKs eating steel better, it is more about case shape. Steel cases extract more easily with a more pronounced taper to the case. Start feeding Kalashnikovs steel case NATO types and the same problems can exist as on an AR.


Thar is a very nice collection.

Agreed. Rs and Midwest make nice stout side rails. My experience with ARs and steel cased ammo was less than impressive. My ak in 223/556 has no malfunctions and it has never tasted brass.

 

[Edwardteach72]

I really want to toss in the ALG trigger in my saiga.

And I need to get off my ass and even just write the dude at NY Legal Arms start talking to him to see if he can help finish up my saiga conversion (with their stock) but get all the right sights and shit to finish it all up

 

[Podmonkey]

Agreed. Rs and Midwest make nice stout side rails. My experience with ARs and steel cased ammo was less than impressive. My ak in 223/556 has no malfunctions and it has never tasted brass.

I ran a case of Wolf through my previous Daniel Defense with no issue. However with brass case being as cheap as it is I don't bother with steel case 5.56. Quality M193 surplus is not much more.

 

[Edwardteach72]

I guess kind of on topic..

Not much in the world of good SD/HD ammo like there is for 5.56 (say like speer gold dots) but anyone have any suggestions on good ammo for such roles. Or how does Russian soft points hold up

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

I ran a case of Wolf through my previous Daniel Defense with no issue. However with brass case being as cheap as it is I don't bother with steel case 5.56. Quality M193 surplus is not much more.

I once ran steel 223 through my M&P sport (gen 1) and it ran flawlessly. For shits and giggles I reloaded the casings and tried again. It was disastrous. I was setting off more mortars than the NVA. I'm not sure if it was because of the casings themselves not being able to be sized properly or because I was just starting out reloading and didn't size them enough. I never tried it again but now kinda want to.

I guess kind of on topic..

Not much in the world of good SD/HD ammo like there is for 5.56 (say like speer gold dots) but anyone have any suggestions on good ammo for such roles. Or how does Russian soft points hold up

I know some don't want to hear this but. Reload. There are 762x39 brass casings. That opens up a whole lot of good pills to put through the platform. I have about 1k brass casings but don't reload for the caliber that much as steel factory prices can't be beat even by reloading. I use the brass predominantly for reloading sub sonics. FYI the AK suppressed is waaaaay quieter than 300BLK. Comically quiet in fact. If anyone needs some brass AK casings I wouldn't be against gifting some.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

I've always liked the platform and I'd like to get into the AK game at some point. Not here in NY though.

 

[Edwardteach72]

I had a feeling reloads were the answer.

I am looking at the Winchester defender pdx-1

One day I really hope to get my hands on atleast 1 or 2 nice 5.45 guns

 

[Edwardteach72]

I've always liked the platform and I'd like to get into the AK game at some point. Not here in NY though.

TBH when saigas were a dime a dozen (or even if you can find one 700 or under, or if Lee can ever keep their similar built AK in stock) they are pretty damn decent "compliant" rifles

 

[Edwardteach72]

I've always liked the platform and I'd like to get into the AK game at some point. Not here in NY though.

Or even better, check out NY Legal Guns Facebook page, they usually have a solid selection of wasr10s and Romanians and at one point had a few Hungarian AMD63s and 65s (removed the front grip, and they have the option of their claw grip or their own version of the thordsen stock)

 

[Farmandguns1]

Here’s one of Lee’s...pretty nice but it took almost a year to get...

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Here’s one of Lee’s...pretty nice but it took almost a year to get...

Nice. Do you happen to know if the gas tube is an ULTIMAK? I only ask because I know that the ULTIMAKs have to be leveled. When I was looking for a gas tube I researched and didn't like the idea of having to level every time it's taken off. Granted you really never really have to take it off but still. Anyway what I found was the Troy Industries gas tube. It's fitted on the 47 above. It needs no leveling and mounts on rock solid. I'm willing to bet taken on and off with an optic it would hold zero. Best of all it's only about $10 more than the ultimak on primary arms. Just throwing that out there is someone is looking for a railed gas tube.

 

[Farmandguns1]

Nice. Do you happen to know if the gas tube is an ULTIMAK? I only ask because I know that the ULTIMAKs have to be leveled. When I was looking for a gas tube I researched and didn't like the idea of having to level every time it's taken off. Granted you really never really have to take it off but still. Anyway what I found was the Troy Industries gas tube. It's fitted on the 47 above. It needs no leveling and mounts on rock solid. I'm willing to bet taken on and off with an optic it would hold zero. Best of all it's only about $10 more than the ultimak on primary arms. Just throwing that out there is someone is looking for a railed gas tube.

Very cool...it was installed by lee armory I assume they leveled it. I haven’t taken it off I just use a shotgun cleaning kit to clean the gas tube. I tried mounting a red dot on it...it turned out to be really front heavy. Now I use an rs side mount. Good info tho I’ll have to check Troy out. Sounds like a great option for a “fixed mag” rifle.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Well damn didnt know that about the ultimaks, that's what I have on mine

 

[Edwardteach72]

Granted I do want to move over to an RS mount and eventually something better like an aimpoint but still use the ultimak for a light mount

 

[Farmandguns1]

Granted I do want to move over to an RS mount and eventually something better like an aimpoint but still use the ultimak for a light mount

Ultimaks seem to be the most robust option...only down side is you can’t remove for cleaning. My rifle felt front heavy with a red dot on it because it is in “saiga” unconverted form.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Ultimaks seem to be the most robust option...only down side is you can’t remove for cleaning. My rifle felt front heavy with a red dot on it because it is in “saiga” unconverted form.

I.just have a cheapol' bushnell on my saiga right now, and I mean it also does feel front heavy but all AKs kinda do to some extent.

Since I'm still a poo boy I will for sure be doing some more research at some holosun options (they seem to have upped their quality) sadly it's for sure not at all the same as an Aimpoint or Trijicon but I'm also not going to war or kicking in doors.

As much as I hate pigeonholing one gun to fill multiple roles I'm going to try and set this up mostly as a HD gun, but really want to take a deer with it just once even lol and my local range does one 3 gun match every year and I'd bang with this for shits and giggles

 

[Farmandguns1]

I.just have a cheapol' bushnell on my saiga right now, and I mean it also does feel front heavy but all AKs kinda do to some extent.

Since I'm still a poo boy I will for sure be doing some more research at some holosun options (they seem to have upped their quality) sadly it's for sure not at all the same as an Aimpoint or Trijicon but I'm also not going to war or kicking in doors.

As much as I hate pigeonholing one gun to fill multiple roles I'm going to try and set this up mostly as a HD gun, but really want to take a deer with it just once even lol and my local range does one 3 gun match every year and I'd bang with this for shits and giggles

I would call a saiga a solid “do it all” rifle!

I’m a huge fan of the Sig Romeo 5 red dot. I have 4 of them. Same specs as an aimpoint...auto on auto off. I saw some YouTube video where a guy was torture teasing the Romeo 5. He even shot it with birdshot. For the money I think they are great.

 

[Edwardteach72]

I would call a saiga a solid “do it all” rifle!

I’m a huge fan of the Sig Romeo 5 red dot. I have 4 of them. Same specs as an aimpoint...auto on auto off. I saw some YouTube video where a guy was torture teasing the Romeo 5. He even shot it with birdshot. For the money I think they are great.

I mean yea it can do all those things well, especially if set up for each one individually, but have something set up for home defense isnt really going to do well keeping up with say custom 3 gun rifles, and a custom 3 gun rifle isnt going to be the best option for taking a deer or HD.

But figure it will mostly be set up as a fighting rifle which should work fine for hunting and may struggle for a 3 gun competition but that would really jus tbe once a year for shits and giggles.

I'm also looking at the Trijicon MRO

 

[Podmonkey]

I guess kind of on topic..

Not much in the world of good SD/HD ammo like there is for 5.56 (say like speer gold dots) but anyone have any suggestions on good ammo for such roles. Or how does Russian soft points hold up

I have heard the Russian soft point stuff doesn't expand much at all. There are no HD/SD speciality loads in 7.62x39. Legend has it the Chinese surplus would tumble and fragment for nasty terminal effect, also the Yugo surplus was known for having better than average terminal ballistics. Good luck finding any of either of those, and they will come at a serious premium if you do.

I've always liked the platform and I'd like to get into the AK game at some point. Not here in NY though.

The Saiga sporters are fine, Veprs too. Lee Armory apparently makes a similar config in beautiful red wood. Really great NY compliance option.

I had a feeling reloads were the answer.

I am looking at the Winchester defender pdx-1

One day I really hope to get my hands on atleast 1 or 2 nice 5.45 guns

I wouldn't bother with a 5.45 gun at this point.
5.45x39 dosen't do anything the 5.56 already does. The reason we got 5.45 AKs was because back in the day you could get a 2160 round crate (2 1080 round spam cans) of 7n6 surplus for $179.
Stick with a sporter in 5.56 these days.

Granted I do want to move over to an RS mount and eventually something better like an aimpoint but still use the ultimak for a light mount

There are a number of really nice Mlok handguards in a variety of configurations available for AKs now. Better route than an Ultimak nowadays.

For those that have plans to move out of NY someday, the Sporters are easily converted to the proper style. They are only going up in price so if any of you want in the AK game I'd just bite the $700 bullet and get one.

 

[BDinPutnam]

I've always liked the platform and I'd like to get into the AK game at some point. Not here in NY though.

Same here although I have to admit the Thordsen featureless variants kind of look like compact Dragunovs. Cost of yet another gun and not wanting to get into another caliber are factors for me.

 

[Edwardteach72]

I have heard the Russian soft point stuff doesn't expand much at all. There are no HD/SD speciality loads in 7.62x39. Legend has it the Chinese surplus would tumble and fragment for nasty terminal effect, also the Yugo surplus was known for having better than average terminal ballistics. Good luck finding any of either of those, and they will come at a serious premium if you do.


The Saiga sporters are fine, Veprs too. Lee Armory apparently makes a similar config in beautiful red wood. Really great NY compliance option.


I wouldn't bother with a 5.45 gun at this point.
5.45x39 dosen't do anything the 5.56 already does. The reason we got 5.45 AKs was because back in the day you could get a 2160 round crate (2 1080 round spam cans) of 7n6 surplus for $179.
Stick with a sporter in 5.56 these days.


There are a number of really nice Mlok handguards in a variety of configurations available for AKs now. Better route than an Ultimak nowadays.

For those that have plans to move out of NY someday, the Sporters are easily converted to the proper style. They are only going up in price so if any of you want in the AK game I'd just bite the $700 bullet and get one.

The 5.45 would just be for the lulz honestly, and I guess there is still some "cheap" ammo but not like the old surpluses.

I would also like one of these in 5.56 to do even somewhat of a valmet clone

 

[Edwardteach72]

Oh and looking for ammo today, the Hornady SST seems pretty decent, along with federal Fusion

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

I have heard the Russian soft point stuff doesn't expand much at all. There are no HD/SD speciality loads in 7.62x39. Legend has it the Chinese surplus would tumble and fragment for nasty terminal effect, also the Yugo surplus was known for having better than average terminal ballistics. Good luck finding any of either of those, and they will come at a serious premium if you do.


I wouldn't bother with a 5.45 gun at this point.
5.45x39 dosen't do anything the 5.56 already does. The reason we got 5.45 AKs was because back in the day you could get a 2160 round crate (2 1080 round spam cans) of 7n6 surplus for $179.
Stick with a sporter in 5.56 these days.

7N6 is great ammo but here's the thing with it. It's corrosive. I have a bunch of it but shoot the modern stuff because the rust left in your gun is a pain. And you HAVE to clean it right after use or things can get stuck. 1080 rounds today is about $100 dollars more than the 2 1080 cans back in the day but all ammo is more expensive than it was back then. I remember when I could get a 100 count box of winchester white box 9mm for 9.99 and a 20 box of 7.62x39 for $1.99. A brick of 22 for $10 etc.

Here's what the 7.62 soft points can do. Spoiler alert it works just fine.

 

[Podmonkey]

7N6 is great ammo but here's the thing with it. It's corrosive. I have a bunch of it but shoot the modern stuff because the rust left in your gun is a pain. And you HAVE to clean it right after use or things can get stuck. 1080 rounds today is about $100 dollars more than the 2 1080 cans back in the day but all ammo is more expensive than it was back then. I remember when I could get a 100 count box of winchester white box 9mm for 9.99 and a 20 box of 7.62x39 for $1.99. A brick of 22 for $10 etc.

Here's what the 7.62 soft points can do. Spoiler alert it works just fine.

Its mildly corrosive. And is a simple, simple thing to flush the bore of the corrosive salt residue by simply pouring water down the bore. A bottle of water before you go home from the range and as much hot water as you feel necessary when you get home, then dry and proceed with whatever cleaning regimen you normally do. I just had a rubber hose thing that slipped over the spigot in my bathtub and I'd run hot water out of that down the bore for a minute, then I'd run a dry bore snake through, then Hoppes then Breakfree. Altogether I think I'd spend 10 minutes on cleaning my 74. I had it for a short time but I got my use out of it, several crates worth.