LEO should be subject to the same restrictions as civilians.

[Truebeliever]

And considering conviction rate, most citizens cops arrest did not as well.

I'll make a compromise. Simple accountability. If a cop makes any arrest, and the outcome is "not guilty", no hard feelings. It happens. But the cop will now face the exact punishment a guilty verdict would have.

Let's see how fast the "see what sticks " mentality disappears.

The conviction rate has absolutely nothing to do with the police. If you have a woke DA and they just don’t want to prosecute, that’s on them , not the cop. If the victim no longer wants to participate in the case for whatever reason, that’s on them, not the cop . Most cops learn quickly not to care about the court case. And aren’t supposed to really care, unless they were an actual witness to the actual crime which is not common.

 

[Darth]

The conviction rate has absolutely nothing to do with the police. If you have a woke DA and they just don’t want to prosecute, that’s on them , not the cop. If the victim no longer wants to participate in the case for whatever reason, that’s on them, not the cop . Most cops learn quickly not to care about the court case. And aren’t supposed to really care, unless they were an actual witness to the actual crime which is not common.

That will certainly make them think twice before an arrest. Win win.

 

[spat]

I agree but payments are made to insurance company by employer. Just wanted to make the distinction as I think it's important when comparing these two very different occupations.

That's likely how it would go with cops too.

But if you've got a train wreck of a doctor on your payroll, your insurance company will likely demand you get rid of them or they'll raise your premiums through the roof.

The same would happen with cops.

 

[spat]

The conviction rate has absolutely nothing to do with the police. If you have a woke DA and they just don’t want to prosecute, that’s on them , not the cop. If the victim no longer wants to participate in the case for whatever reason, that’s on them, not the cop . Most cops learn quickly not to care about the court case. And aren’t supposed to really care, unless they were an actual witness to the actual crime which is not common.

It is the justice system that's fucked.

The cops are the pointy end of that system.

You can't be part of it but deny your responsibility.

Just like you can serve food in a restaurant that's a health hazard and then tell yourself it's not your fault it's the kitchen that leaves the shrimp out overnight.

You served it, you knew it was bad, you're responsible.

 

[spat]

You want an ANTIFA like Police Department/Officers? Take away QI and most of us would walk the following day. You'll love what comes after those of us that have actually read the Constitution and abide by it leave.

Then they can staff entire departments with those who will happily and gleefully trample your rights.

Some of you guys truly believe the bullshit the media propagated about QI. It's not an "I can do whatever I want and get away with it." It's a "well that wasn't clear" or "that's a completely bullshit lawsuit because someone got butthurt"

For example: I make a LEGAL and lawful arrest for possession of stolen credit cards. The mutt PLEADS GUILTY to the charges. I get sued by the mutt for a false arrest. I should be expected to risk my life/freedom for that?

Everyone without a badge manages to do that every day.

You seem to think your job exposes you in ways others aren't. It doesn't.

Everyone else just has to suck up the risk.

 

[Truebeliever]

That will certainly make them think twice before an arrest. Win win.

And the rapist goes free. Not even stopped to be identified. It will happen for every crime the officer didn’t personally witness. And even then , not always

 

[spat]

Not really a cost effective option considering the salaries are paid with tax dollars. I don't really want to see my taxes triple to cover the extra cost for each individual to have their own liability insurance vs an umbrella policy.

Just exempting bad cops from legitimate lawsuits to save some tax dollars is worse.

Why should government be exempt from the mess of a tort system they have built ?

Get rid if their exemptions and you'll see them fix the mess post haste.

Imagine how much money the public would save if the lawsuit lottery ended for *everyone* because the government finally had to fix it or be subject to it.

 

[spat]

And the rapist goes free. Not even stopped to be identified. It will happen for every crime the officer didn’t personally witness. And even then , not always

You seem to be under the illusion that it matters how many criminals you arrest.

It doesn't.

99% of crimes go unpunished.

If you catch twice as many, that only goes down 1%

If you catch half as many it only goes up 0.5%

Just like it doesn't matter how many "drugs" or "guns" you remove from the street. The trade is the same.

You guys are playing a giant game of whack-a-mole and thinking it matters how fast you swing the bat.

Then you drag out these emotional pleas about "what if this guy gets away" like it's the end of the world.

It isn't. If this guy gets away, the same thing happens as with the other 99 guys you didn't catch.


Until the courts start really removing the scum from society, what you guys do is irrelevant.

If you're not going to stop the criminals (and it doesn't matter who's fault it is that you can't), I'd rather have you quit stopping regular people from handling it themselves too.

 

[spat]

I'm not willing to bet my freedom/life on what a judge "Should" do.
Some are quite clearly anti-cop, BLM/Antifa supporters.

But you're willing to subject everyone else to that arbitrary justice system ?

If you can't trust the courts to give you a fair shake, isn't it a bit hypocritical to force other people to ?

 

[SomeSoldier]

I'm not willing to bet my freedom/life on what a judge "Should" do.
Some are quite clearly anti-cop, BLM/Antifa supporters.

Then they should be removed. Because they are not applying the law equally.

 

[Rocpo]

When they should be removed. Because they are not applying the law equally.

Absolutely concur. But they serve at the behest of the voters.

 

[GOPerfect]

When they should be removed. Because they are not applying the law equally.

Who is going to remove them?

I do not see many stepping up to get these judges out of office. Most are getting reelected and re-appointed.

 

[Darth]

And the rapist goes free. Not even stopped to be identified. It will happen for every crime the officer didn’t personally witness. And even then , not always

You know you're being dishonest, but even in that case, I'd rather 1000 guilty go free than 1 innocent get an "oops.'

 

[SomeSoldier]

Who is going to remove them?

I do not see many stepping up to get these judges out of office. Most are getting reelected and re-appointed.

Does the law not apply to them? Call your local Sheriff.

 

[GOPerfect]

Does the law not apply to them? Call your local Sheriff.

Now, you are just being funny. For real, we all know this is not happening. Not now, not anytime soon.

 

[SomeSoldier]

Now, you are just being funny. For real, we all know this is not happening. Not now, not anytime soon.

But it should.

 

[SomeSoldier]

Absolutely concur. But they serve at the behest of the voters.

A broken law by any elected official, is still a broken law. They should be investigate, arrested and tried.

 

[spat]

Now, you are just being funny. For real, we all know this is not happening. Not now, not anytime soon.

More evidence the system is broken beyond repair.

Serving it just perpetuates the problem.

We still have some good people who wear a badge and serve a corrupt system. But it's only a matter of time before you won't be able to be both.

 

[Defilade]

Common Law needs to be exercised to hold these "Officials" to account. Codes, rules, statues don't apply to we the people if we represent ourselves in a public courthouse with a jury of our peers. Judges, Cops work for a Corporation. Government is a corporation which is beneath "We the People." People need to learn how to use common law and drag the head of that Corporation in the court house. Basically it entails I am not your property nor do I have a contract with the corporation you are working for.

View attachment VID_20230919_183805_341.mp4

 

[Truebeliever]

You know you're being dishonest, but even in that case, I'd rather 1000 guilty go free than 1 innocent get an "oops.'

I’m not being dishonest. It’s already happening. Why do you think crime is skyrocketing? The Ferguson effect is real .
So let’s go with the 1 innocent man vs 1000 theory . That’s courtroom, or formal charges and conviction, not arrest . Why? Because arrest is how the suspect is identified or discounted . “Bring him in for questioning “ is an arrest . Stopping someone and putting them in a line-up ( as opposed to a show-up) is an arrest .
What happens with the 1000 go free( never arrested level)? People don’t use the criminal justice system and take the law into their own hands— tribalism. We are going to see more and more of that with these woke DAs who are refusing to prosecute no matter the evidence including for having shootouts in the street ( yes, Kim Foxx did that even though the incident was on video).
Look what allegedly happened in NYC, a woman was beaten with a stick while on the ground . The cops got there while the man was still there . They let him go. I’m still waiting for all of the facts to come out but the two cops are now being investigated.
Go to the police forums and how posters are advising active cops to just do the report and nothing else. It’s happening.
And by the way , qualified immunity gone, who pays the bill? The taxpayers just like all the other lawsuits . Qualified immunity isn’t what you think it is .

 

[Truebeliever]

You seem to be under the illusion that it matters how many criminals you arrest.

It doesn't.

99% of crimes go unpunished.

If you catch twice as many, that only goes down 1%

If you catch half as many it only goes up 0.5%

Just like it doesn't matter how many "drugs" or "guns" you remove from the street. The trade is the same.

You guys are playing a giant game of whack-a-mole and thinking it matters how fast you swing the bat.

Then you drag out these emotional pleas about "what if this guy gets away" like it's the end of the world.

It isn't. If this guy gets away, the same thing happens as with the other 99 guys you didn't catch.


Until the courts start really removing the scum from society, what you guys do is irrelevant.

If you're not going to stop the criminals (and it doesn't matter who's fault it is that you can't), I'd rather have you quit stopping regular people from handling it themselves too.

You are wrong . Arrests in themselves when there was bail did make a difference.
Do you actually think the courts in NY were really “putting people away “ during the 1990s when the huge crime reduction started ? They weren’t . The average sentence for a child molester was probation . Robbery for the first and second robbery convictions— yep, probation .
What made the difference was small arrests . NYC transit police under Bratton and Maple showed the way — forget Comstat - but the broken windows theory . They arrested people for hoping the turnstiles ( not paying their fare). Subway crime went down so much, it was safer on the street than the subway — that’s not exaggeration. Criminals who do big crimes , don’t even think about the small crimes and do them out of habit . They get caught , arrested and aren’t out there for the bigger crimes . Plus the smaller crimes lead to the bigger ones all the time . OK bombing , how was he caught?— he didn’t have his license plate on the back of his car . He was in a jail cell before the FBI knew to even look for him.
Why did Auto crime dramatically go down in Queens , NY on Friday nights? Because if they got caught, they would have to spend the weekend in jail, so they didn’t do it on Friday nights .
Arrests do lower crime . Even with this bail reform bs. Arrests are down , crime is up in part that cops are getting sued when the DA declines to prosecute even for serious crimes.

 

[Truebeliever]

More evidence the system is broken beyond repair.

Serving it just perpetuates the problem.

We still have some good people who wear a badge and serve a corrupt system. But it's only a matter of time before you won't be able to be both.

Maybe. The real problem is you and many other people don’t really understand what is going on and why the system works the way it does . And where to fix it. It’s usually not with the enforcers but the makers of these laws and the courts . You want equal enforcement in general of the laws. If the individual cop is interpreting it as opposed to the courts , you don’t know what you are going to get each time . There is discretion to a point that each officer has , but you don’t want each officer deciding each case. It’s hard enough keeping up with the court Decisions where everyone is supposed to be on the same page .

 

[GOPerfect]

I long for the day that either all, or the vast majority of cops in the big cities either leave the job or have mass, week long sick calls.

 

[Darth]

I’m not being dishonest. It’s already happening. Why do you think crime is skyrocketing? The Ferguson effect is real .
So let’s go with the 1 innocent man vs 1000 theory . That’s courtroom, or formal charges and conviction, not arrest . Why? Because arrest is how the suspect is identified or discounted . “Bring him in for questioning “ is an arrest . Stopping someone and putting them in a line-up ( as opposed to a show-up) is an arrest .
What happens with the 1000 go free( never arrested level)? People don’t use the criminal justice system and take the law into their own hands— tribalism. We are going to see more and more of that with these woke DAs who are refusing to prosecute no matter the evidence including for having shootouts in the street ( yes, Kim Foxx did that even though the incident was on video).
Look what allegedly happened in NYC, a woman was beaten with a stick while on the ground . The cops got there while the man was still there . They let him go. I’m still waiting for all of the facts to come out but the two cops are now being investigated.
Go to the police forums and how posters are advising active cops to just do the report and nothing else. It’s happening.
And by the way , qualified immunity gone, who pays the bill? The taxpayers just like all the other lawsuits . Qualified immunity isn’t what you think it is .

Ok, I'll make a deal with you. I'll meet you half way. Let's make three be some sort of standard you have to meet up make an attest. A sort of cause for you to believe that they probably committed a crime. That way you aren't just out attesting people to let the courts sort it out, and if you still are, whoops, you are on the hook now.

Far far far too many cops write off their life altering mistakes as "whoops, my bad. "

You want to put someone's life on the line? Be damn well sure you are right.

 

[Darth]

I long for the day that either all, or the vast majority of cops in the big cities either leave the job or have mass, week long sick calls.

Same.

 

[Podmonkey]

This civilian not civilian thing is a bit tiring.

Police officers are in fact Civilians.

Definitions have been altered.

There are two types of people, Civilians and Non civilians...

Those in the Military and those that are not in the military.

No it is not tiring. It is a significant distinction that we as a society have allowed to become blurred since Bush used 9/11 to bamboozle the public into accepting a police state.
There is far too much 'us and them" mentality in law enforcement today.
The widely held notion that private citizens are somehow "lesser" than public servants (of any type whether cop or fireman or paramedic or most certainly definitely absolutely bureaucrat)
Has to cease.
The concept of the public sector as subordinate to the private sector was one of the essential tenants of the Founding Father's vision.
This false division of public servants and private citizens into "civilIan and non-civilian" camps is counter-productive to this ideal and frankly is an intentional piece of social engineering on the part of our so-called leaders.
Leaders, pah! Our "leaders" couldn't find a man dying of thirst water if they were on a boat in the middle of lake Erie.

 

[RooftopKorean]

No it is not tiring. It is a significant distinction that we as a society have allowed to become blurred since Bush used 9/11 to bamboozle the public into accepting a police state.
There is far too much 'us and them" mentality in law enforcement today.
The widely held notion that private citizens are somehow "lesser" than public servants (of any type whether cop or fireman or paramedic or most certainly definitely absolutely bureaucrat)
Has to cease.
The concept of the public sector as subordinate to the private sector was one of the essential tenants of the Founding Father's vision.
This false division of public servants and private citizens into "civilIan and non-civilian" camps is counter-productive to this ideal and frankly is an intentional piece of social engineering on the part of our so-called leaders.
Leaders, pah! Our "leaders" couldn't find a man dying of thirst water if they were on a boat in the middle of lake Erie.

Being a Paramedic myself I wouldn't even put my job title in the same category of cops. We get shit on frequently by the public. The vast majority of the public see us as a glorified Uber rather than trained medical professionals.

 

[GOPerfect]

Being a Paramedic myself I wouldn't even put my job title in the same category of cops. We get shit on frequently by the public. The vast majority of the public see us as a glorified Uber rather than trained medical professionals.

I work with many EMT's and Paramedics, most do an amazing job. Thankless. Many of them, depending on their areas of concern, see and experience as much as or more than many cops do. Many have to deal with the same scum, day after day.

Thank you

 

[RooftopKorean]

I'd like to make a correction to my last statement. My comment holds true in the city, when I am outside of NYC at my other home in PA and when I am upstate many people thank me for my service.

99% of the people are complete asshats toward first responders except FDNY firefighters who they kiss ass to. But that's largly the fault of the city administration and the media. I don't hate on firefighters but they receive way too much credit for what us EMS personnel do in the field.

 

[spat]

You are wrong . Arrests in themselves when there was bail did make a difference.
Do you actually think the courts in NY were really “putting people away “ during the 1990s when the huge crime reduction started ? They weren’t . The average sentence for a child molester was probation . Robbery for the first and second robbery convictions— yep, probation .
What made the difference was small arrests . NYC transit police under Bratton and Maple showed the way — forget Comstat - but the broken windows theory . They arrested people for hoping the turnstiles ( not paying their fare). Subway crime went down so much, it was safer on the street than the subway — that’s not exaggeration. Criminals who do big crimes , don’t even think about the small crimes and do them out of habit . They get caught , arrested and aren’t out there for the bigger crimes . Plus the smaller crimes lead to the bigger ones all the time . OK bombing , how was he caught?— he didn’t have his license plate on the back of his car . He was in a jail cell before the FBI knew to even look for him.
Why did Auto crime dramatically go down in Queens , NY on Friday nights? Because if they got caught, they would have to spend the weekend in jail, so they didn’t do it on Friday nights .
Arrests do lower crime . Even with this bail reform bs. Arrests are down , crime is up in part that cops are getting sued when the DA declines to prosecute even for serious crimes.

There was a cultural shift that did it.

Not an arrest blitz.

And there was a cultural shift back to celebrating victimhood that is the root cause of our problems now, and you can't arrest your way out of it.