Liability with an APEX trigger.

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Quydoewan

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I have a M&P Shield with an APEX trigger. I know it is completely legal in NY, but I'm starting to have 2nd thoughts of using it as an EDC. Does anyone have thoughts on the liability of having a modified trigger? Just to be clear, it was installed by a gunsmith to the specs given by APEX (no extra tweaks).

Thanks
 
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Quydoewan

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In the unlikely event that I need to use it for defense, the gun will get vouchered by the police and inspected. The prosecutor can (and likely will) dissect the gun to make sure it wasn't altered from the factory specs. Then it all goes down hill from there with wanting to know why the job was done. "The trigger sucked" isn't a good enough answer. Remember, FUAC.
 
fnfalguy

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In a class I took with Mas Ayoob he briefly discussed something similar but different. It was the use of handloads for self defense. I do not know if his experience was anecdotal or not but he brought up if you did ever have to use the weapon in self defense, the fun involved in the line of questioning:

Lawyer: So you didn’t feel that Federal Arms creates a powerful enough round so you the individual looking to make sure you killed somebody had to create your babypuppykiller round of Doom 2.0.

Lawyer: so you felt that John Moses Browning or Gaston Glock didn’t create enough of a killing machine, so you needed to make yourself a more efficient killer by adding the (insert after market part here)

My decision is that my carry guns remain stock. All bets are off for completion guns.

As a FYI, it’s been a while but I believe Clint Smith said the same thing in courses I took with him. Yes, it’s name dropping, but giving a reference as to where the information is coming from.
 
Edwardteach72

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fnfalguy said:
In a class I took with Mas Ayoob he briefly discussed something similar but different. It was the use of handloads for self defense. I do not know if his experience was anecdotal or not but he brought up if you did ever have to use the weapon in self defense, the fun involved in the line of questioning:

Lawyer: So you didn’t feel that Federal Arms creates a powerful enough round so you the individual looking to make sure you killed somebody had to create your babypuppykiller round of Doom 2.0.

Lawyer: so you felt that John Moses Browning or Gaston Glock didn’t create enough of a killing machine, so you needed to make yourself a more efficient killer by adding the (insert after market part here)

My decision is that my carry guns remain stock. All bets are off for completion guns.

As a FYI, it’s been a while but I believe Clint Smith said the same thing in courses I took with him. Yes, it’s name dropping, but giving a reference as to where the information is coming from.
Click to expand...

Ayoob also says everyone should put a NY trigger in their glock
 
Edwardteach72

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A good shoot is a good shoot.

Just make sure you can articulate why you wanted a different trigger and it's not one that bypasses any of the factory safeties (apex is g2g)
 
Cleck

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As with the trigger, I'd probably answer the same way for the rounds - it's a self-defense handgun made by someone else. If my life is going to depend on it, I want to know that it'll work every time, the right way. If that means I need to modify it to get more comfortable with it or I need rounds that I personally know will work better, then I will use those. I'm not leaving my life to the craftsmanship of someone else. It's not about killing more, it's about using the tool effectively.
 
Edwardteach72

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fnfalguy said:
Interesting as that wasn’t discussed during the time he was either lecturing or on the range.

Not here to get into a debate. Putting information out there for grownups to make their own decisions.
Click to expand...

I wish I still had the article when he talks about adding the ny trigger
 
Cleck

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Since I got my 45, I have forgotten about upgrading the trigger on the Shield, until I go to the range and shoot it, haha. I'll do it eventually, but I'm sure taking my sweet time.

Man, an 11lbs trigger pull? Pass.
 
Phazer

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Eddie Gunks said:
Yawn

When was the last time any if this ammo/trigger BS REALLY HAPPENED ?



FUCKING NEVER!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Beat me to it.

I cannot ever recall hearing about a legitimate deployment of a defensive firearm result in the victim being cited, or penalized, for having had their personal protection tool modified from factory stock. The issue at hand would be why a firearm was used and not what legitimate platform was wielded.

Could it happen in some crazy jurisdiction? I have no idea. Would I worry about it? Not really.
 
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fnfalguy said:
One last item for reading and I’ll go back to lurk mode

Gun Modifications
Click to expand...
Interesting take.
Ordinarily, and in most cases, a modified gun and anything but ball ammo is a nothingburger. That’s in Merica.
I’ll guess in some anti states any modification could be argued by the prosecutor to a jury. For instance I wouldn’t want a Brooklyn jury of my “peers” having my freedom in their hands, after hearing about a “hair trigger” and “cop killer ammo”.
All assuming a prosecutor would even go that far. Almost all wouldn’t, a good shoot is a good shoot, in most jurisdictions.
 
Edwardteach72

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fartgamer said:
Interesting take.
Ordinarily, and in most cases, a modified gun and anything but ball ammo is a nothingburger. That’s in Merica.
I’ll guess in some anti states any modification could be argued by the prosecutor to a jury. For instance I wouldn’t want a Brooklyn jury of my “peers” having my freedom in their hands, after hearing about a “hair trigger” and “cop killer ammo”.
All assuming a prosecutor would even go that far. Almost all wouldn’t, a good shoot is a good shoot, in most jurisdictions.
Click to expand...

Omg we partly agree on something 2d3894d93b2f5423fcc37f83c8a6a41853e7cc8cc1fc8075002cdd40a4a87471.jpg
 
Phazer

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Simple questioning:

DA: Sir, why did you shoot?

Victim: My family and I were directly threatened with imminent serious harm by the attacker who drew his weapon and charged at us. In accordance with New York State's Article 35 regarding the use of force, I was unable to retreat because my wife and daughter were with me. So, I responded with force necessary to stop the threat.

What's the DA going to follow up with?

DA: Um...sir...did your pistol have a 5 pound trigger pull or 8 pound trigger pull?

Seriously?
 
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