In the other thread- there is no way I would put my hands on gun. Even if told so. My hands would be in air.
Licensed gun owner claims he was 'manhandled,' injured by Amherst police
- Thread starter BuffNiag
- Start date
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
My point is that caring about your appearance and making sure that you don't print, will minimize any interaction with law enforcement that could put you in this situation or the other one in the other thread.
Deplorable Me
.700 Nitro Express
Printing does not mean you are carrying a gun, it means you have a bulge in your pants and the Amherst police are either gay or envious.
This. Head of security at the place I work is retired Amherst cop. He is a real piece of work. His active shooter training wanted to make me have a brain aneurysms.
They must have gotten big heads from the Amherst being safest town in NY crap.
OR,... just move to a "Free State"! A place where you don't get tossed to the ground just because some fucking moron saw your gun. Guns do get exposed, whether CCers will admit it or not. There are just times when it happens. If you live in a place that is not run like a "shit hole country" it's no big deal. People down here just don't give a fuck about other people's business. Hell, I just washed both vehicles in the driveway today, and my tee shirt came up over my gun, NO BIG FUCKING DEAL! We don't need a permit to own a handgun, and are now a Constitution Carry state. It would have to be a REAL serious report to get the LE down here to get too excited.
FUCK Amherst PD!! AND FUCK that liberal Fuck who made the call; "I saw a civilian with a gun"!! Fuck off already with that bullshit!!
Just one more example of why I am so happy to be out of that fucked up state!
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
All it takes is one idiot (conservative or liberal) to call the police and embellish the story to put you in harm's way if he or she wants to put you in harm's way. It doesn't matter what state you live in.
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I love the responses in here.
1) Submit to police, even when their orders are clearly unConstitutional
2) Submit to the will of ignorant and oppressive people, your Rights don't matter
3) Flee your home, say good-by to all your friends and family, quit or lose your job, Rights are locality-based
It's quite sickening, actually. WTF has happened to this Country.
1) Submit to police, even when their orders are clearly unConstitutional
2) Submit to the will of ignorant and oppressive people, your Rights don't matter
3) Flee your home, say good-by to all your friends and family, quit or lose your job, Rights are locality-based
It's quite sickening, actually. WTF has happened to this Country.
misunderestimated
.223 Rem
DONT COUNT ON THAT, Bullshit gets thrown out of the courts south of Washington, you tell a cop that a person has a gun under his shirt, and the cops is going to say YEA what's the problem with that it's legal here . I travel to Florida often and you really don't understand how bad New York and its residents are until your out of the madness for a little while.
As I stated earlier we are in Florida now house shopping and enjoying spring break and I took my wife to the local tax office to get her Florida Non Resident CCW and we were in and out in less then 20 minutes and every one we met could not be more helpful. It was like we were doing them a favor buy coming in.Its almost like being in a cult to live in New York you don't realize how restricted and toxic we are until your out . I have had friends and relatives tell me this before ,but its not until you out of the state for a while do you realize there are states with less Taxes then us constantly improving the infrastructure. The roads don't have to be dirty and littered with Garbage, the politicians ,corruption and unions have such strangle holds on us
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People that want to enslave the world happened. Known as Globalists. They have large amounts of money and are buying power one elected official at a time. We are in trouble not as NYers or Americans but as humans. Just look at what is happening in Europe. That is coming to every corner of the earth if we allow it. We can move now and try to enjoy our lives and what we know as our rights but it is only a matter of time until it spreads. They have worked for decades to start at the base of our society, education. Its why we can't even relate to our children or youth anymore. Its why our society has very little vaules left.
Toecutter
.308 Win
I wonder if there will be a news article published after tax payers fill this guy's bank account due to poorly trained police. On the bright side he's a retired CO so I bet he's given someone an undeserved beating once or twice in his career. Karmas a bitch.
I'm telling you for a fact, that even if someone called in some bullshit like that moron did in Amherst, it would not be handled the same way. There is absolutely no permit needed down here to own a handgun, even before we went to constitutional carry. The LE do not go around tossing people to the ground, then saying "oopsie, my bad"!! People don't get wrapped around the axle down here if they see a gun showing, hell we have OC down here, so it really is no biggie. You can believe it or not, it really doesn't matter to me.
Incidentally, see below!! It's a fact!
If people would GTFOONY for an extended vacation (more than a week, or two!!) so they can actually see what it's like in quite a few parts of the country, they may change their mind!
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Really? So if I called 911 and said that there is a guy here with a gun waving it around, acting crazy, and talking to himself saying that today is the day that he's going to die, the police would just come and have a polite talk with the man who might be a mental defective and put their own lives in danger? If so, the police there are Keystone cops.
Ever here of the term "Swatting?" If you paint the picture that the guy is unstable, the police have to take it seriously.
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That's very different from, "I just saw a guy with a gun in his pants," @Willjr75 .
Pretty sure that's more the scenario MoMan is referring to.
The police everywhere should respond on alert to a job where they are being told someone is waving a gun around. The "swatting" aspect is the retard caller's fault, and honestly it's not that common. Hopefully the cops who show up when something like does happen can quickly deescalate their actions. They can't deescalate the subject really, that's a separate issue which may have come into play with this retired CO...
Pretty sure that's more the scenario MoMan is referring to.
The police everywhere should respond on alert to a job where they are being told someone is waving a gun around. The "swatting" aspect is the retard caller's fault, and honestly it's not that common. Hopefully the cops who show up when something like does happen can quickly deescalate their actions. They can't deescalate the subject really, that's a separate issue which may have come into play with this retired CO...
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
My point is if you are printing even in a so called "free state" someone could call painting the picture that you are behaving a certain way when you are not.
In their eyes they could be so afraid that they see you doing things that you are not doing or they could just want to swat an asshole gun carrier with a little dick. I'll show him.
And when the responding police show up, they have to treat it as a threat until things are sorted out as they should. If the police just show up La Di Da Di and it's true, they'll be putting their lives in danger.
Now. I was never a real cop. But it's just common sense that the police will show up with a certain mentality based on what command or central reported.
"Unit 21. Respond to Walmart. We have a report of a possible white male wearing a camouflage jacket and blue jean pants waving a handgun around in the electronics section. Witnesses say that he keeps chanting the phrase "I'm going to die tonight."
I don't care if this is gun friendly Montana. You have loons that live there and liberals that travel there too. Responding officers will respond as if there is a threat in the store no matter how gun friendly the state is.
Some months ago two black kids shopping at some store were apprehended at gunpoint in the parking lot when an employee of the store wrongly accused them of stealing and waving would appear to be a gun around.
I remember defending the cops in that thread. There was no gun and they didn't steal anything but the cops acted appropriately.
Sure printing in 99 percent of times result in a big nothing burger. But when it happens that one time to that one person, it could mean his life depending on the type of information the responding officer gets.
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I think you are missing my point, printing is not a thing down here. We have OC, people are used to seeing others walking around WM, HD, Lowes, BK, Mickey D's, etc. Hell, a bunch of the older guys down here OC their pretty revolvers, it really is no big deal.
Oh, and I might also add that even with those old guys OCing, it's not like the libs would have people believing... "Shootouts on Main Street at high noon"!
Of course I've heard of swatting, BUT, that is not at all what I'm talking about here. Could it happen? SURE, but then again there are a whole bunch of things that are more likely when people are used to seeing guns in their everyday travels. I understand what you are saying, BUT, believe me when I say... they do not jump out of the car down here and toss you to the ground, and break your balls.
I'm not in LE, BUT, I would bet that if that call were to come in the responding LEO would take a more cautious approach if they REALLY thought the guy was waving a gun around and saying; today's the day I'm gonna die!
Oh, unless that call came in from a burner phone, the caller may get a visit from LE!! You can't block your number when you call 911.
^^^This right here!!^^^
Perhaps! BUT, unless the responding LEO is from the Amherst PD, it probably won't end with the guy shot or killed just based upon the type of info the responding officer gets! Where I am living down here, we are not near ANY large metropolitan. My town has +/- 9,600 people, the 2 next larger towns each have +/- 20k people, and are 25-30 miles away in each direction. Most own guns, the ones that don't probably were still raised with guns in their homes, it really is a different scenario than being in Amherst, etc.
I accept the fact that it could still happen anywhere, including in gun friendly states, but are you willing to accept the fact the chances are WAAAAAAY better in states like NY, CA, and the rest of the loony states??
People have fled other oppressive dictatorships before. It may not be the ideal situation, but short of a full on uprising, there are only 2 other choices; stay and live under the dictator's rule, or GTFO!! Me I decided to say FUCK IT, I'm gone, I'm not lining that dictators pockets anymore!!
It really is sickening! We allowed the liberal/socialists to hijack our education system, and they have turned it into an indoctrination camp. AND... we're paying them to do it!!!
I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest with anyone, I am saying that not every place is full of liberal assholes who need to fill their evil little heads with how they "saved the world today"!! That's the cool thing about forums like this, we can have spirited discussions, and no one is so sensitive that they get their nose out of joint over it. UNLESS it becomes a personal attack,... then fuck it all bets are off!!
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
@MoMan . I'm not missing the point. I include open carriers in with the printers. I understand that cops have a different mentality in some states. But if you are swatted against or if dispatch gave the responding police a different picture then what's really happening, the police will respond based on what the threat given to them was.
You can't honestly say that police in free states always approach every gun situation they are dispatched to the exact same way whether it's just a regular call or a call from someone acting a certain way that indicates mental instability. The woman who made the call in the OP said that the guy was acting erratic and yelling. He wasn't but suppose he really was? Now if the police in your state approach him with no care in the world and he was mentally unstable, what do you think could happen to them?
Sorry. I'm not buying that. Based on what you are saying, there has never ever been a shootout between an assailant and the police ever in your state. Every encounter with a man with a gun in your state has always resulted in a positive outcome with no shots fired and if it did result in shots fired, the police would be dead because they all approach people the same way.
You can't honestly say that police in free states always approach every gun situation they are dispatched to the exact same way whether it's just a regular call or a call from someone acting a certain way that indicates mental instability. The woman who made the call in the OP said that the guy was acting erratic and yelling. He wasn't but suppose he really was? Now if the police in your state approach him with no care in the world and he was mentally unstable, what do you think could happen to them?
Sorry. I'm not buying that. Based on what you are saying, there has never ever been a shootout between an assailant and the police ever in your state. Every encounter with a man with a gun in your state has always resulted in a positive outcome with no shots fired and if it did result in shots fired, the police would be dead because they all approach people the same way.
Come on man, ya know that's not even close to what I'm saying. First of all, I have no idea about in the northern sections of KY, like Louisville, or Lexington, much the same as you may not have a full view of what happens in other areas of NYS!!
Let me give you an example of what happened in our town about 2 years or so ago. A call went into the 911 system at like 2 or 3AM about a guy walking down the street handling a pistol. The responding officer pulled up and he did end up shooting the guy. It ends up the guy made the call to get some excitement going, when he was approached he made some kind of move that the LEO who shot him took as threatening. The guy was shot, and taken to the local hospital, then taken to a larger hospital for surgery. He eventually got out of the hospital and was arrested for making the false report. INCIDENTALLY, he did not even have a gun on him!!
The KSP did the investigation, NOT our local PD!
Could this same situation happen if someone else made the call? SURE, BUT remember that the guy made a threatening move, the cops didn't come out with guns blazing and just drop him. I would imagine they had their guns drawn before getting out of their car, and probably even gave strong verbal commands to the guy, before he decided to act like he was reaching for something. That's a BIG difference from what happened in Amherst. Look if any one of us either there, here, or on the moon, gets approached by a LEO who has his gun drawn, and we decide it is a good idea to reach in your waistband, or pocket, well let's just say... that would be plain ass stupid.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I don't think you're understanding my point. For argument's sake, let's say that I was an anti gunner went to your state, and called the police on you saying that you pistol-whipped me in aisle 7 of Walmart because I don't think you should be open carrying and wanted to teach you a lesson. You really think that they will just walk to you with holstered weapons to talk? From their end, all they know is that someone might have been pistol-whipped at Walmart and they have to get to the bottom of it.
They will walk up to you on guard more than likely with their guns drawn or at a minimum with their hands on their guns ready to fire and make you put your hands up so that they could disarm you or get you down on the ground so that they could frisk you. I'm assuming you'd comply and wouldn't do anything stupid and probably live.
But the point is that I inconvenienced you. I could have gotten you shot too if you got confused and did something you didn't really mean to do against the officer's commands. It has happened before and people have been killed for it.
All that because I didn't like that you were open carrying a gun. Now if you were concealing, my deranged mind wouldn't have thought of that.
In the OP, the woman alerted the secretary that a man with a gun was in the lobby. The secretary called the police and said that a man was waving a gun. See what just happened there?
So the police got a different situation then what the initial complaint was. As far as they knew there was a man waving a gun in the lobby or waiting area. He wasn't a good guy. Whether they would have gone in with guns drawn on him or tackled him isn't the point.
The point is what would have happened if it was concealed and the woman never saw it? Absolutely nothing. That's my point.
Never mind that the police threw him on the ground. And never mind if they wouldn't have thrown him on the ground. But either way he was going to be disarmed until questioning.
My statement about printing matters holds water. If no one knows you have a gun, the no one knows you have a gun no matter what state you're in.
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I'll agree with this!^^^
gun_slinger_boy
.338 Win Mag
Around here we shoot guns, blow things up and burn shit down. No one gives a flying fuck. We mind our own bidniss. It's kinda sad that some will never know that freedom. It's one thing if you have legitimate reasons that keep you in a communist state. But it's annoying when people complain but have the ability to leave. At that point you're complaining just to complain/gun rights must not be that important to you.
Like my lawyer told me, "it's your tax money your fighting and they have more than you! They know your license plate so prepare to be pulled over all the time, but yes you could sue them"
Long story but I wouldn't give SS# or place of work, got handcuffed then a fat turd started to beat on me.
Long story but I wouldn't give SS# or place of work, got handcuffed then a fat turd started to beat on me.
misunderestimated
.223 Rem
Willjr75 spend some time out of NewYork and you'll understand what moman is saying.
Ill share a story, I used to smoke cigarettes, as a matter of a fact 2.5 packs day. A good friend of mine said your killing yourself what do you smoke for you'll be dragging around an oxcegen tank or talking thru a hole in your throat in some nursing home by the time your 70. I told him NO I am a good guy, god with take me with a heart attack long before I go to a nursing home. Its because that's what I seen with my relatives they smoked them selfs to death and then die at an early age.I was so emerged in smoking my entire life all I ever knew was you smoke all you want and die early . i thought this was OK and normal. It wasn't until ole monkey face raised the sin tax to 2.85 a pack and when the cigarette industry said it would put them out of business, the monkey face says NOPE New Yorkers are too stupid to quit smoking they will pay what every the price is. Well I quit smoking that week. (the only reason I did not quit that day was I just bought my carton of cigarets.) Well with in one month of quitting and becoming un addicted to smoking cigarettes and I put distance between me and other smokers did I realize you don't have to die young, I had this great awaking after I stopped smoking (holy shit I really was addicted to smoking) I ACTUALLY CONVINCED MY SELF IT WAS OK TO DIE YOUNG. Not only that but I was telling people it was a good thing. Make a long story short, Once you leave New York you get the same awakening, I hope you get that awakening
Ill share a story, I used to smoke cigarettes, as a matter of a fact 2.5 packs day. A good friend of mine said your killing yourself what do you smoke for you'll be dragging around an oxcegen tank or talking thru a hole in your throat in some nursing home by the time your 70. I told him NO I am a good guy, god with take me with a heart attack long before I go to a nursing home. Its because that's what I seen with my relatives they smoked them selfs to death and then die at an early age.I was so emerged in smoking my entire life all I ever knew was you smoke all you want and die early . i thought this was OK and normal. It wasn't until ole monkey face raised the sin tax to 2.85 a pack and when the cigarette industry said it would put them out of business, the monkey face says NOPE New Yorkers are too stupid to quit smoking they will pay what every the price is. Well I quit smoking that week. (the only reason I did not quit that day was I just bought my carton of cigarets.) Well with in one month of quitting and becoming un addicted to smoking cigarettes and I put distance between me and other smokers did I realize you don't have to die young, I had this great awaking after I stopped smoking (holy shit I really was addicted to smoking) I ACTUALLY CONVINCED MY SELF IT WAS OK TO DIE YOUNG. Not only that but I was telling people it was a good thing. Make a long story short, Once you leave New York you get the same awakening, I hope you get that awakening
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Maybe I'm dense but I don't see the correlation with quitting smoking and printing.
It doesn't matter what state you're in. and for the record I've been in many states during my military career. If 911 is called and unit 21 gets a call to respond to a location where there is a suspicious man brandishing a gun, they will respond tentatively. Any cop who doesn't is a fool. They want to go home at night.
So why put yourself in that situation? We all know that innocent men have been killed for making the wrong move or misinterpreting police commands.
I mean put yourself in the mindset of the cop. You respond to Walmart and when you see the dude you told him to freeze. The dude is confused, hears loud yelling and spins around with his hand on the butt of the gun to protect himself.
What do you do if you are the cop in that split-second moment? Do you take a gamble and say," Yeah he's a good guy?" Or do you err on the side of caution.
Now if everything checks out and the citizen obeyed commands, you as the cop are now pissed off that this idiot got your adrenaline up and made you get out of the car and drop his your lunch to respond to this idiotic call because he didn't conceal it right.
Nine times out of ten, the encounter goes well if there is an encounter. That one time out of 10 could be the time that you were misconstrued to make the wrong move.
But maybe I'm wrong here. Maybe in places like Montana, cops never misconstrue anything. They are always on the ball and alert and know who's a good guy and the bad guy.
It doesn't matter what state you're in. and for the record I've been in many states during my military career. If 911 is called and unit 21 gets a call to respond to a location where there is a suspicious man brandishing a gun, they will respond tentatively. Any cop who doesn't is a fool. They want to go home at night.
So why put yourself in that situation? We all know that innocent men have been killed for making the wrong move or misinterpreting police commands.
I mean put yourself in the mindset of the cop. You respond to Walmart and when you see the dude you told him to freeze. The dude is confused, hears loud yelling and spins around with his hand on the butt of the gun to protect himself.
What do you do if you are the cop in that split-second moment? Do you take a gamble and say," Yeah he's a good guy?" Or do you err on the side of caution.
Now if everything checks out and the citizen obeyed commands, you as the cop are now pissed off that this idiot got your adrenaline up and made you get out of the car and drop his your lunch to respond to this idiotic call because he didn't conceal it right.
Nine times out of ten, the encounter goes well if there is an encounter. That one time out of 10 could be the time that you were misconstrued to make the wrong move.
But maybe I'm wrong here. Maybe in places like Montana, cops never misconstrue anything. They are always on the ball and alert and know who's a good guy and the bad guy.
misunderestimated
.223 Rem
Maybe I'm dense but I don't see the correlation with quitting smoking and printing.
Your probably not dense just closed minded and more interested in getting your point across then understanding what what written
It doesn't matter what state you're in. and for the record I've been in many states during my military career. If 911 is called and unit 21 gets a call to respond to a location where there is a suspicious man brandishing a gun, they will respond tentatively. Any cop who doesn't is a fool. They want to go home at night
Actually we have to look at the root cause What started this, A person who has been brainwashed into thinking guns are bad , Who lives in an area with people who think having guns are bad, in an area were the schools teach all guns are bad, in an area where they don't believe in the second amendment, who Spotted a gun and was made nervous, Shared that information with another Dolt with the same indoctrine . And panic inssued and they called the police
South of washington if some one was in a DR office and seen a gun , their thoughts would be , "I wonder what kinda holster that is it looks nice, NO COPS CALLED just another dr visit. nothing out of the ordinary .
Last fall me and the wife Were in Florida going to a Beach, I thought I was doing the speed limit but it dropped at a crest on a hill and I was speeding ,I got pulled over bottom of the hill. Officer come up, I realize he may be able to see the tip of my holster so I tell him , Sir I am a Licensed pistol permit holder and I have my firearm on me. He Told me We are not even going to worry about that now, leave it were it is, and the conversation turned over to me speeding on the hill. Its the Culture,its the environment, to him it was an every day encounter, just another person using his 2nd amendment rights , Image this stop in NY
What a liberal New Yorker identifies as brandishing is normally just a glance of a fire arm.
I BEEN OUT SIDE OF THE GATE, its nice , its cleaner, you have more freedom and less corrupt there .
Your probably not dense just closed minded and more interested in getting your point across then understanding what what written
It doesn't matter what state you're in. and for the record I've been in many states during my military career. If 911 is called and unit 21 gets a call to respond to a location where there is a suspicious man brandishing a gun, they will respond tentatively. Any cop who doesn't is a fool. They want to go home at night
Actually we have to look at the root cause What started this, A person who has been brainwashed into thinking guns are bad , Who lives in an area with people who think having guns are bad, in an area were the schools teach all guns are bad, in an area where they don't believe in the second amendment, who Spotted a gun and was made nervous, Shared that information with another Dolt with the same indoctrine . And panic inssued and they called the police
South of washington if some one was in a DR office and seen a gun , their thoughts would be , "I wonder what kinda holster that is it looks nice, NO COPS CALLED just another dr visit. nothing out of the ordinary .
Last fall me and the wife Were in Florida going to a Beach, I thought I was doing the speed limit but it dropped at a crest on a hill and I was speeding ,I got pulled over bottom of the hill. Officer come up, I realize he may be able to see the tip of my holster so I tell him , Sir I am a Licensed pistol permit holder and I have my firearm on me. He Told me We are not even going to worry about that now, leave it were it is, and the conversation turned over to me speeding on the hill. Its the Culture,its the environment, to him it was an every day encounter, just another person using his 2nd amendment rights , Image this stop in NY
What a liberal New Yorker identifies as brandishing is normally just a glance of a fire arm.
I BEEN OUT SIDE OF THE GATE, its nice , its cleaner, you have more freedom and less corrupt there .
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This is sad.
So you blame the gun owner who is merely trying to exercise his Constitutional Right, and had a little trouble with onerous draconian laws, rather than blame the asshole who is so paranoid they should be locked away from society, and who escalates the situation by filing a false report.
Nice.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Yep. It is sad. I blame the carrier who put himself in that situation. Just the same as I blame the open carrier who thought it a good idea to open carry an AK pistol to Walmart for attention or a samurai sword or ax to pick up his kid in day care.
It's legal to walk into a police station open carrying an AK pistol wearing a ski mask but is it smart?
Michigan open carry stunt backfires - CNN
So, then, you don't agree with people exercising their Constitutional Rights.
Saltwater60
.950 JDJ
Y
Yes I found that to be a very rude statement and will likely come back to bite him. Sounds to me like the cops over reacted and possibly the lady that called. Seems like the Ontario women was reasonable, but she should have called the police not the secretary. Who knows and the article doesn’t say what the caller actually stated.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
The 1st Amendment is unlimited as well but if you stand in a store screaming, "Fuck liberals! , It's the same as someone open carrying an AK to Walmart.
Both create a disturbance and both create a police response that the carrier or screamer shouldn't be looking for unless he or she wants attention.
So yeah. I'm pretty sure you'd think me an idiot for screaming, "Fuck liberals!" at the top of my lungs in Wal-Mart just the same as I'd think you an idiot for open carrying a Glock or AK in a Walmart potentially creating a disturbance for some pansy liberal that's visiting in Wyoming. Both rights should carry discretion so as not to create disturbances.
Is totally legal to wear a ski mask in Wal-Mart because it's cold while open carrying a pistol and muttering out loud that you hate liberals because you don't care what they think and you hate the sight of them but you don't do so as not to create attention and a police response.
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