ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
You are right, we don't know what is really going on over there. We only know what we are told or through what we can find. If what you said is true, then it makes me think the situation is way worse than we think it is.
Looming north korean threat
- Thread starter Drinkthekoolaid
- Start date
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
Not sure if fake but interesting: Chinese military preparing for "surprise attack" in sea near North Korea
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
@wizrd, No we really don't, But we do have some facts , stories of North Korean soldiers told to pick and eat corn are questionable, Kims mental abilities are questionable, Even things Kim says are questionable. stories from behind the curtain are questionable , North Korean threats may be questionable. but there are things that we do have a reliable handle on .
We know for certain Trump has threated NK .
We Know we have around 30,000 troops stationed on the DMZ in NK
We Know japan has no offensive military power
We know China have been and still are military allies
We know China will not allow US soldiers on its borders
We know China sees NK as a national security issue
We know China trades with NK
We know that that we trade with China
We know Trump has proposed sanctions against Anyone doing business with NK
We know NK has atomic weapons
There are a lot of things we do know , just from the last ten years alone. From the information we do know, we can deduce other information. Saying that fake news is everywhere therefore we cant believe anything is just wrong . We do know some things . stories are taken with a grain of salt. I usually dismiss story's as fake news. I try to understand what we do know based on the information we mostly agree is true.
I don't doubt your story of NK dead, shit like that happens, Bengazi for instance, only they wernt able to cover it up , I know theres a lot of shit like that goes down . Saddam Hussein using Gas against our troops went unreported , But the guys I know who were there were telling me of that. Your not telling me anything I don't know. I was claiming fake news back in 91 , everyone thought I was nuts.I was claiming Saddam had nothing to do with 911 , and I couldn't find one person who believed me . not one. everybody thought I was a fruitcake. I am totally aware of propaganda and false stories , And if you think my observations are way off the mark , you should jump in and correct it or question it. No harm no foul , its a discussion on an open forum. just prepare to back up what your saying with sources .Saying we shouldn't discuss the situation because were all in the dark is arrogant and unfounded . Im sure you may have plenty of facts about NK or the military , so point out where were misguided instead of just making that claim .
We know for certain Trump has threated NK .
We Know we have around 30,000 troops stationed on the DMZ in NK
We Know japan has no offensive military power
We know China have been and still are military allies
We know China will not allow US soldiers on its borders
We know China sees NK as a national security issue
We know China trades with NK
We know that that we trade with China
We know Trump has proposed sanctions against Anyone doing business with NK
We know NK has atomic weapons
There are a lot of things we do know , just from the last ten years alone. From the information we do know, we can deduce other information. Saying that fake news is everywhere therefore we cant believe anything is just wrong . We do know some things . stories are taken with a grain of salt. I usually dismiss story's as fake news. I try to understand what we do know based on the information we mostly agree is true.
I don't doubt your story of NK dead, shit like that happens, Bengazi for instance, only they wernt able to cover it up , I know theres a lot of shit like that goes down . Saddam Hussein using Gas against our troops went unreported , But the guys I know who were there were telling me of that. Your not telling me anything I don't know. I was claiming fake news back in 91 , everyone thought I was nuts.I was claiming Saddam had nothing to do with 911 , and I couldn't find one person who believed me . not one. everybody thought I was a fruitcake. I am totally aware of propaganda and false stories , And if you think my observations are way off the mark , you should jump in and correct it or question it. No harm no foul , its a discussion on an open forum. just prepare to back up what your saying with sources .Saying we shouldn't discuss the situation because were all in the dark is arrogant and unfounded . Im sure you may have plenty of facts about NK or the military , so point out where were misguided instead of just making that claim .
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
One thing we know for sure, our intelligence gathering technology has grown and gotten even better. Another thing we don't know, what the folks at USIC, NSA, CIA, FBI, DHSNIA, and a crap load more of them know and have been feeding President Trump. I just hope he's getting the truth.
Robin
Robin
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
I guess the mirror article I posted earlier was on point. China carries out live-fire exercise fending off 'surprise' overseas attack
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
More than once I have qualified that I am an armchair warrior and most of us realize we are not one of the joint chiefs. We also know there are things going on not reported in the news. We can guess as to what those are but ultimately everyone in this thread is merely using their best reasoning skills against whatever is on fox or CNN.
A holdover says there are despite lots of dark corners to this some things we know unequivocally.
My long belief is kim Jong il was not crazy and I don't think un is either. Both of them have kept power in a ridiculous country. It isn't because of luck.
This is also why I am positive NK will not do things that will 100% ensure a US response. Surely nobody took his talk of launching missiles at Guam seriously? There are certain tripwires and that is one of them. Remember how they used to randomly shell parts of SK? Notice how they are not doing that these days? My sense is NK has a very good idea about what will initiate a preemptive attack and they are deftly staying just below the threshold.
Launch missiles near Guam = USA strike
Launch missile over Tokyo = USA strike
Most of their missiles land in the middle of nowhere and the missile over Japan was carefully chosen to go over Japan but only just. I do think NK realizes they would be shit banged if the USA decided to do it.
Nukes are the ultimate form of defense, and when kim has them he can probably even blackmail foreign aid in exchange for not developing more. So far I think the missile over Japan was their ballsiest move. But Japan can't do a damn thing about it. NK will never try it over us territory because MAD requires some level of respect. The USA cannot tolerate such a thing with Russia and china watching.
A holdover says there are despite lots of dark corners to this some things we know unequivocally.
My long belief is kim Jong il was not crazy and I don't think un is either. Both of them have kept power in a ridiculous country. It isn't because of luck.
This is also why I am positive NK will not do things that will 100% ensure a US response. Surely nobody took his talk of launching missiles at Guam seriously? There are certain tripwires and that is one of them. Remember how they used to randomly shell parts of SK? Notice how they are not doing that these days? My sense is NK has a very good idea about what will initiate a preemptive attack and they are deftly staying just below the threshold.
Launch missiles near Guam = USA strike
Launch missile over Tokyo = USA strike
Most of their missiles land in the middle of nowhere and the missile over Japan was carefully chosen to go over Japan but only just. I do think NK realizes they would be shit banged if the USA decided to do it.
Nukes are the ultimate form of defense, and when kim has them he can probably even blackmail foreign aid in exchange for not developing more. So far I think the missile over Japan was their ballsiest move. But Japan can't do a damn thing about it. NK will never try it over us territory because MAD requires some level of respect. The USA cannot tolerate such a thing with Russia and china watching.
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
Shoot. It. Down.
Period.
From this point forward any launch should be immediately shot down.
masterswimmer
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
If a shoot down attempt fails, US looks weak. I still think we don't want other adversaries to know how good or bad our anti-missile tech is, so I'm pretty sure that nobody will try and shoot down a NK missile unless its trajectory has it terminating near a major city. I'm sure I speak for everyone here saying if the attempt was made in any case it would be pretty awesome (as long as it takes the NK missile out). Fatty would lose his shit! He might legit lose it then. It would be a public smack across the face and who knows what he'd have to do then.
If you look at a globe he carefully chose that location in Japan. Short of flying over SK, Russia, China, NK has only several hundred miles of sea to work with on missile tests and then they have to choose a neighbor to fly over. They simply think Japan is the most likely to roll over and they are probably correct.
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
NK has vowed to make the us pay dearly for the hysteric fit and tongue lashing from Nikki Haley. I alhave now realized when the pics show kim and his generals laughing they are laughing at the crazy stuff they are going to put in the news. It is just one big epic troll by them. I know they don't believe most of what they say in these broadcasts.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
If they shoot one over the ocean, I say let it go, if over Japan Guam or US territory shoot it. Let them shoot off two or three more, Then the US can turn to China and Russia and say WTF? Really? If you cant stop him I will .
They will both have legitimate reasons why they wont back him anymore. Nobody wants to have a nuclear war with the US. it gives them an out or excuse not to back him . Im sure they wont say it publicly, or tell NK , Just quietly pull their support from him and not come to his aid.
Shooting down a NK missile is still an act of war , So is an oil embargo which has been proposed. If an oil embargo goes into effect , NK would be forced to attack for their own survival. just like japan did in 41
They will both have legitimate reasons why they wont back him anymore. Nobody wants to have a nuclear war with the US. it gives them an out or excuse not to back him . Im sure they wont say it publicly, or tell NK , Just quietly pull their support from him and not come to his aid.
Shooting down a NK missile is still an act of war , So is an oil embargo which has been proposed. If an oil embargo goes into effect , NK would be forced to attack for their own survival. just like japan did in 41
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I would think that firing an ICBM over another country, like Japan is an act of war, already.
Robin
Robin
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
It is certainly rude. Japan would have been morally sound to take that out no doubt.
Imagine Russia's reaction if the US shot a missile over its territory for a test or China's reaction. What if Russia shot a missile over Alaska? We would lose our shit. What NK did was inexcusable.
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
We haven't stopped being "at war" with NK. It's only an armistice, which I guess NK ripped up a few years back...
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
that's true too
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
Well, I'm back from camping. It was a great weekend! I'm surprised there was no ICBM test though. I guess we'll see what happens tomorrow. North Korea Threatens US With "Greatest Pain And Suffering Ever" Over Fresh Sanctions | Zero Hedge
Jmac00
.475 A&M Magnum
"greatest pain and suffering" does that mean he wears braces and uses his teeth when sucking Trumps dick
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
Opinion | Time for maximum pressure on North Korea, even without China’s permission
it's just an opinion piece, but if these types of sanctions are implemented it could start something as it would effect China.
it's just an opinion piece, but if these types of sanctions are implemented it could start something as it would effect China.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Russia and China wont go along with it, They both want to avoid a war with the US , As long as KIM has oil he wont be forced into an attack. Even though it is an act of war. Im pretty sure China had a sit down with him and told Kim that if he launched any missiles Over US or its allies territory they are on their own . So I don't expect Kim to do anything , He will get his oil and the US will look weak when they cant stop China and Russia from supplying Kim from overland . Its in China and Russia's best interest to stop a war from happening if they can ,I don't think they are going to go along with the program, especially after the US announced sanctions against both of them recently. I don't know what Trump is thinking here, This is a loser no matter what happens.
The man is not going to give up his missiles, he wont attack if China wont back him. and the US doesn't want to attack if China does back him . This is a stalemate. As long as Kim doesn't attack he is safe to continue developing his toys , I don't think the US wants to have nuclear war with China. So the US is stuck . The next step is to give Japan and south Korea Nukes to counter balance NK .
The man is not going to give up his missiles, he wont attack if China wont back him. and the US doesn't want to attack if China does back him . This is a stalemate. As long as Kim doesn't attack he is safe to continue developing his toys , I don't think the US wants to have nuclear war with China. So the US is stuck . The next step is to give Japan and south Korea Nukes to counter balance NK .
masterswimmer
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I think this is obvious to aNYone with a brain. And further evidence on why NK must be stopped. They cannot be allowed to share their technology with others.
Did Iran secretly help North Korea?
Did Iran secretly help North Korea?
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
The way I see it , the US and China do not want to fight a nuclear war. And if the only way to take out NK is to have a nuclear war with China then I think the US will not attack.
The only other way which requires brass balls is to attack NK and dare China to react. which is a maniac game of chicken. Most likely the Chinese would back down after seeing what just happened to NK,But your risking millions of American lives on a bet.
The only other way which requires brass balls is to attack NK and dare China to react. which is a maniac game of chicken. Most likely the Chinese would back down after seeing what just happened to NK,But your risking millions of American lives on a bet.
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
The thought comes to mind of measured response. I think what China meant when they said that if we strike first they will come to NK's aide was if there were to be an all out attack, or a strike which would lead to a large NK response and then a larger conflict. But lets say hypothetically, we take Kim out strategically or we shoot one their missiles down. What is China going to do really? Are they going to go to war with the US over a downed missile or a political assassination not of one of their own? I doubt it. Let's also say for arguments sake, NK tests another missile and we shoot it down and NK retaliates to the downing of their missile by lobbing one towards Guam or Japan. What is China going to do then? Honestly, if our strategy contains no US boots in NK, then what is China going to do except maybe help defend NK airspace? So we end up with an air war with China, which they will loose badly but with no US boots approaching their border, what's the motivation for them? I get that they are "allies" but China's only real interest in NK is with having that buffer state and maybe taking pleasure in the torment NK causes the western world, but I don't see NK as an ally they are willing to get into a shooting war with their biggest trading partner over.
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
we could also move nukes to Taiwan... see how the Chinese like that.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Lots of valid points, Lot of unknowns and risks. It reminds me of the Cuban missile crisis .How far is the other side willing to go? I tend to agree with you, A measured response will be met with a measured response. Not necessarily an all out nuclear war. Shooting down a missile over allied territory will not cause the Chinese to go to war. If anything, it may cause the Chinese to pull away from their defense obligations as they would also see firing missiles over Japan as a direct provocation. They arnt going to defend those kind of actions , they even condemned the last one openly .
I think its pretty clear they will not except US boots on the ground in NK at any cost. I think that's a deal breaker.
I think its pretty clear they will not except US boots on the ground in NK at any cost. I think that's a deal breaker.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Ouch. that's like moving missiles on Cuba.