ECU Pirates
.308 Win
Burden of proof? This is a forum not a trial. Tens of millions of correct addresses? Source? How’s that holster smell?
Maryland SWAT Team Serving Red Flag Warrant Shoot, Kill 21-Year-Old Man Asleep In His Bed
- Thread starter PutnamCharlie
- Start date
You are the one making claims then running away when asked to back them up. We can see your cornered. Trying to get me to prove the opposite of your claim is proof of that. You have resorted to childish antics. You are dismissed.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
“You’re”
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I don’t see him cornered at all. You asked for data and he asked you for data. Fact of the matter is, even if it is low, low is too much. It should be none. Would you be okay if the government dropped bombs from an aircraft by accident on homes during tests if it only happens 10 times? No. Ban the testing in that area.
There never should be a reason to kick in the wrong door. None. That means there was no surveillance. There should also never be a reason to kick in a door for a gun unless the threat was eminent. IE social media posting of a school shooting tomorrow. But because someone said that he was a prohibited person until 30 years of age? BS. It isn’t eminent enough to warrant that kind of response. An apprehension on the street and a search warrant greatly reduces the risk to both sides.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
Don’t use logic will. The highly trained professionals don’t need to check adresses. They can also just tell when their low life ci’s are being truthful or trying to settle a score. That being said the judges that sign these bs warrants are the real criminals.
He made the claim. Not me. He's playing games trying to get me to disprove his claim. That's not how it works. Prove to me you didn't commit a crime today! Childish games.
Sure is. But the world is an imperfect place. One automobile death is one too many. Maybe we should ban automobiles.
Cringe. Why must some go to the most extreme, nonsensical, made up examples? Well what if magic WAS real and (fill in the blank). Let's stay grounded here. Theres got to be a make believe fantasy forum for that other stuff somewhere.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Because an entire family and a dog killed from the wrong house is extreme. It’s the same as dropping a bomb on it.He made the claim. Not me. He's playing games trying to get me to disprove his claim. That's not how it works. Prove to me you didn't commit a crime today! Childish games.
Sure is. But the world is an imperfect place.
Cringe. Why must some go to the most extreme, nonsensical, made up examples? Well what if magic WAS real and (fill in the blank). Let's stay grounded here. Theres got to be a make believe fantasy forum for that other stuff somewhere.
He’s not playing any games. A google search of SWAT raids gone wrong generates lots of results.
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This thread is old and tired, but I believe earlier in it I was able to find 19 documented cases of wrong address.
spat
.950 JDJ
If we are executing "tens of millions" of no knock warrants as you suggest, we've got bigger problems.
I would suggest that the time for pitchforks and torches is long before it gets to that number.
I googled "no-knock warrants gone bad", there were at least 75 stories that I found in a matter of about a second.
I am still a fan of the no-knocks.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
That was my point. Tens of millions? Come on now. Then the ridiculous “maybe we should ban cars” nonsense. Hitting the wrong house is inexcusable. It shows incompetence and arrogance at the same time. That’s just about the most dangerous combination any armed group can have. There are about 20000 no knocks a year now (vast majority are not needed). Just ten million (not ten’s) would take about 500 years.
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Glenn B
.308 Win
There you go, I fixed it for you. No need to be disrespectful merely because you are an administrator - is there?
Stories do not correlate to incidents of innocent killings of the family pet. I can find 44 million stories of the 49ers winning the Super Bowl in 1995, yet they only won it once that year.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
It isn’t just about only a pet you *%#?€Er! There’s more than that. Risk to your loved ones. Property damage. Risk to your own life. Jail if you kill one of them. Lots of things.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
He won’t put down the shovel. The guy needs to lay down the king and admit defeat. I’m still waiting on the source that states there are tens of millions of no knocks.
Did I mention, I'm a fan of no- knock warrants.
I am also a fan of punishment. Serious punishment when these do get botched.
I am also a fan of punishment. Serious punishment when these do get botched.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
I still say judges need to stop rubber stamping some of these.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I’m fan of no knocks when no knocks are warranted. Because someone may have a gun on a tip from someone else, not so much. Years ago they would get a warrant, detain a man, then search the house with a warrant.
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Not a fan. There is always a better way, A way that doesn't harken to totalitarian regimes throughout history, A way that free men would find acceptable.
Robin
Robin
PutnamCharlie
6.5 Creedmoor
At least they are trying to get answers to this.
Firearms Policy Coalition
@gunpolicy
Just because there is a “pandemic” does not mean we can forget what and who we’re fighting for. For freedom and for the people! That is why FPC has filed a public records request in the police shooting of Duncan Lemp. Stay up to date at http://FPCResearch.org #duncanlemp
Firearms Policy Coalition
@gunpolicy
Just because there is a “pandemic” does not mean we can forget what and who we’re fighting for. For freedom and for the people! That is why FPC has filed a public records request in the police shooting of Duncan Lemp. Stay up to date at http://FPCResearch.org #duncanlemp
Yes. Bad things indeed. Good thing it almost never happens. If it were a perfect utopia it would be zero, but that isn't real life.
Celt
.450/400 Nitro Ex
getting hit by lightning almost never happens, but I don't go golfing in a lightning storm, and sure as hell wouldnt want to be the poor sumbitch that gets struck by lightning.
"In 2003, then-NYPD Commissioner Ray Kelly estimated that 10 percent of the more than 450 no-knock raids his officers carried out every month went to the wrong address. "
that is a tid bit from a simple google search. with that math, that means that approximately 540 no knock raids a year go to the wrong address. i would not say that it almost never happens. id say it happens waaaayyyyyy too often.
Going to the wrong address doesn't mean they shot grandma. We need more specifics. I went to the wrong address once. When I realized it I backed up and pulled into the correct house 2 doors down. No lives were lost as a result. The house didn't burst into flames. Not every situation is a travesty. Lots of people here seem to jump to worse case conclusions pretty quick.
Celt
.450/400 Nitro Ex
whether they shoot someone or not, a no knock raid to the wrong house is going to be a bad situation for the victims. no knock raids destroy property, traumatize victims, and can end up with someone getting hurt or killed.
We need specific information. All that was said was they went to the wrong address. It doesn't say they made entry. It is likely in at least some of those cases the homeowners never even knew it.
Glenn B
.308 Win
Agents in my agency rarely were able to obtain a federal no knock when I was on the job. They were not applied for all that often but the application went in when deemed truly necessary. They were given out in some instances and not in others in cases that were extremely similar. Usually depended both on how written up and on the judge. They are definitely a necessity toward safety in some cases but not a necessity in most.
You'd maybe be surprised though how soon after a knock with no answer, or with an answer and no door opened by the occupant, that some doors came down - almost as fast as with a no knock. On my cases, I preferred to wait a legally reasonable (sometimes subject to the whims of a judge later on in a suppression hearing) time to see if there would be an answer or if the door was opened within a reasonable time after an immediate answer. No more though than three times knocking for anyone and never lost a suppression hearing due to not giving enough time.
In this case, I'd sure like to know the entire story. Seems truly to be a bizarre case if it happened as the family described but then again, who knows, they could be spot on in their description of the events. I am certain there must be video of what took place and am anticipating seeing it and seeing some followup reporting on this case.
You'd maybe be surprised though how soon after a knock with no answer, or with an answer and no door opened by the occupant, that some doors came down - almost as fast as with a no knock. On my cases, I preferred to wait a legally reasonable (sometimes subject to the whims of a judge later on in a suppression hearing) time to see if there would be an answer or if the door was opened within a reasonable time after an immediate answer. No more though than three times knocking for anyone and never lost a suppression hearing due to not giving enough time.
In this case, I'd sure like to know the entire story. Seems truly to be a bizarre case if it happened as the family described but then again, who knows, they could be spot on in their description of the events. I am certain there must be video of what took place and am anticipating seeing it and seeing some followup reporting on this case.
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Celt
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Honestly, it sounds more like you are trying to defend YOUR position on this. In the statement made by the PC he said that roughly 10% of the 450 no knock raids per month went to the wrong house. Thats more than 1 per day going to the wrong house. You are making an assumption that most of those dont make entry, and I disagree, but regardless. Lets say you are right, and out of the 45 per month, 30 of them don't make entry, 15 per month kicking in the wrong door is waaaayyyyy too often. Even 1 is not acceptable to me.
Its better to let 10 bad guys go free than to prosecute 1 innocent person.
True. But what does prosecution have to do with this?
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Chevy is the type of guy that even though he may read a point posted by another and know that that there is validity to it, he will not acknowledge it. He’s not man enough. His ego doesn’t let him so he’ll argue to the end of time. Not because it’s a discussion that he and all of us can learn from, but rather it’s a personal competition.
I’m one of the most argumentative people here. But when someone says something that is correct, I’ll concede and acknowledge their fact as much as it pisses me off that I was wrong.
I’m one of the most argumentative people here. But when someone says something that is correct, I’ll concede and acknowledge their fact as much as it pisses me off that I was wrong.
A false tip, fraudulent warrant, no-knock raid — and two innocents dead
Are you confident that police won’t break down your door tonight? If so, it is probably because you assume the warrant required for such an armed invasion of your home has to be based on reliable e…
nypost.com
Good example of wrong doings...