Miller's Amish Farm Under Siege by The Feds

[Saltwater60]

Of course it isn't based on just raw milk. That is just a small part of it. It is though based on doing the opposite of what "they" recommend which is what most people follow blindly. As far as genes that is not entirely correct. Do some research on epigenetics and you will understand that genes are like the bullets in a gun. Your lifestyle is what pulls the trigger. Genes, the germ theory, etc.. is just more of the BS the medical profession leans on because they can't help you be healthy. Health is many things not just eating and moving. It is the accumulation of decisions over time. Things that may seem insignificant like organic food, structural work, detoxing the body, etc. accumulate over time. Big things are just a lifetime of little things added up. Again, me and my family have done many things for a very long time to get where we are. I was a very sick kid growing up. Did what most people do and that's where it got me. Learned a better way which is why I haven't taken as much as an aspirin in decades and why my 22 and 25 year old boys have never taken any type of drug ever. I see the same push back when it comes to feeding my cats. So many traditional vets and misinformed people shun a raw diet. "Bacteria" they cry. Meanwhile animals have a much shorter digestive system compared to humans so things go through the body much faster. Of course though the pet food industry that poisons pets with their products don't want you using anything but their products. They teach in the vet schools and educate the students on their wares. Bottom line is this. I know what's best for me and mine. I have a proven track record of the results. I want choice. You don't want to play in my sandbox? You don't have to. Let me live my life with how I see fit and leave me the hell alone. Yeah, I'm a bit pissed off this morning as it looks like Molinaro lost to that "Veteran" that believes in killing babies, defunding the police and is against the 2nd. THIS is what NY is and I loathe it and the people that are for it. I can't get out of this shit stain fast enough.

You’re absolutely correct on something’s and I’ll agree with you that the pet food industry and the human food industry is full of lies and garbage food. Look who is on the FDA board, industry experts that work for the companies asking for these things to be allowed. Some food regulations just make good sense and pasteurizing milk for the general good of the public makes sense to me.
Yes I’m aware of epigenetics and it does make sense to me though I’m not sure consuming raw milk or not will change your genes since I have not looked into it.
Many raw milk places can make it safely, but these farmers don’t generally have the knowledge or the means to keep products safe, some do and do it well. I think many just see it as a way to make money because some one came to their farm and asked for it or they saw so and so getting $7/gallon for it and they are getting that for 10 gallons of milk. This Amish farm may very well be doing every thing properly, but the basis of this video is BS saying that it violates their religious rights? I’d like more details on that aspect of it and that has been the basis of my posts and my thoughts on this thread. Looking at all the facts visible to the public shows they are not violating their religious freedoms because they have a web site. Most Amish farms don’t. Clearly organic meat can be slaughtered and kept organic. I’m not sure how butchering would or could change the nutritional content of the meat. I get ground beef has some additives to it, but they don’t have to add that. I’m questioning the basis of this video on why they say we don’t need or want the USDA. My guess is it is 100% $$$ driven and to be honest with you if they said that I could respect that, but they didn’t.

 

[pshift]

I will put my trust in noone except God. I still pray over my food, regardless of where it came from. I will admit that the 1/2 cow that we got from a PA Farmer was excellent and of much better quality and taste, than what is available at Wegmans, or any other large store.

 

[Saltwater60]

I might agree. If this was about safety.
This is.

 

[Saltwater60]

Says the person who keeps posting about how sickly your family is.... yah low blow, but you are talking out the side of your behind here with stuff you copy and pasted from some aniti's.

Ok? Your point is what? My sons tongue, epiglottis, and ear canal wasn’t formed properly so he has sleep apnea and ear inflections, I guess the fucking USDA inspecting meat caused that one huh?
My other son doesn’t eat at regular intervals and doesn’t drink enough so he passes out. His liver doesn’t clear away billirubens properly so again it’s the FDA and USDA’s fault? He has a nerve/heart/blood pressure issue. Please explain because I’m sure if I sent them both to an Amish farm the same issues would still be there. The main issue with my son passing out was passed down genetically from my wife.
My oldest son eats better and exercises way more than I do. I haven’t had a medical procedure done in years and years. Up until recently I hadn’t been to the doctors in 30+ years. Sick? Almost never. I miss a day or two every 10 years of work and most of that is from a stuffy nose that turns into a bad cough keeping me awake at night because I broke my nose so many times. If I had that fixed I’d bet I’d never miss work from being sick.

 

[Saltwater60]

I will put their 10 year old up against any 18 year old product of the public 'er government school any day of the week, Their 10 year old will blow them away in work ethic and knowledge (among many others things life). THE NUMBER ONE REASON TODAY we are in a mess is so many of you dummies send or sent your children to such schools! ONLY A FOOL sends their kids to a government run school.... and I stand by that statement 100%!

Work ethic yes. Knowledge likely no, but maybe yes on farming practices. So knowledge means nothing in this instance except to your specific situation. Yes the Amish kid is more knowledgeable on his situation but my son going to college for what he wants his career to be is more knowledgeable in his area as well.
Look the facts are the way they grow and do things on the farm increase risks. Ananias feces in and around food increases risks. Disagree if you want, but facts are facts and he’s in aware first of an animal can impact their pathogen load, but there is a reason they say to wash your hands after you shit and that makes sense to me.

 

[Dr. Evil]

You’re absolutely correct on something’s and I’ll agree with you that the pet food industry and the human food industry is full of lies and garbage food. Look who is on the FDA board, industry experts that work for the companies asking for these things to be allowed. Some food regulations just make good sense and pasteurizing milk for the general good of the public makes sense to me.
Yes I’m aware of epigenetics and it does make sense to me though I’m not sure consuming raw milk or not will change your genes since I have not looked into it.

It's not a question of "changing" your genes. It's all about living in a way that causes your genes to either express themselves or not express themselves. Again, I never said that raw milk is the end all be all. It is just part of an overall approach. Now, if you'll excuse me. I'm downing my shake that I have every day as my first meal post workout. 1.5 cups of raw milk (from a local farm), a cracked raw egg (Lord have mercy), a scoop of good quality whey protein, fiber, organic peanut butter, organic oats, organic frozen strawberries and organic frozen blueberries. YUMMMMM.

 

[Saltwater60]

It's not a question of "changing" your genes. It's all about living in a way that causes your genes to either express themselves or not express themselves. Again, I never said that raw milk is the end all be all. It is just part of an overall approach. Now, if you'll excuse me. I'm downing my shake that I have every day as my first meal post workout. 1.5 cups of raw milk (from a local farm), a cracked raw egg (Lord have mercy), a scoop of good quality whey protein, fiber, organic peanut butter, organic oats, organic frozen strawberries and organic frozen blueberries. YUMMMMM.

You’re aware your whey protein is from pasteurized milk that was made into cheese, concentrated and then pasteurized again, then spray dried at high heat right? This goes through more hearing steps than many products do.

 

[Dr. Evil]

I might agree. If this was about safety.
This is.

We will just agree to disagree.

 

[Dr. Evil]

You’re aware your whey protein is from pasteurized milk that was made into cheese, concentrated and then pasteurized again, then spray dried at high heat right? This goes through more hearing steps than many products do.

Not quite. You don't know some of the companies I deal with.

 

[Saltwater60]

Not quite. You don't know some of the companies I deal with.

Ok? Then how is your whey protein made? I’d like to research the company. At the very least it has to be spray dried or it wouldn’t be in powder form and would spoil extremely fast. Whey goes bad extremely quickly in liquid form.

Look I agree with you that a lot of government regulations on food overreach or are in place for the wrong reasons. If you remember I said this repeatedly in the baby formula shortage thread and all it would take is the FDA temporarily removing their labeling requirements to fix it.
I also agree the FDA and CDC are a joke. All I’m saying is some rules and regulations are truly for the greater good of the public. There is an organic standard set up by the government and in fact the same USDA that your bashing, yet you look for that symbol while buying your organic food.
I think high fructose corn syrup is the Devil and makes us all fat. I could go on. Same with GMO’s. Patent a living thing wow, how did we get there?

 

[Dr. Evil]

Ok? Then how is your whey protein made? I’d like to research the company. At the very least it has to be spray dried or it wouldn’t be in powder form and would spoil extremely fast. Whey goes bad extremely quickly in liquid form.

Look I agree with you that a lot of government regulations on food overreach or are in place for the wrong reasons. If you remember I said this repeatedly in the baby formula shortage thread and all it would take is the FDA temporarily removing their labeling requirements to fix it.
I also agree the FDA and CDC are a joke. All I’m saying is some rules and regulations are truly for the greater good of the public. There is an organic standard set up by the government and in fact the same USDA that your bashing, yet you look for that symbol while buying your organic food.
I think high fructose corn syrup is the Devil and makes us all fat. I could go on. Same with GMO’s. Patent a living thing wow, how did we get there?

I may be different than some folks but I look for no such label when I buy organic especially since there are a lot of farms locally.

 

[spat]

If you're selling food products to the general public then those products should meet whatever food safety requirements are in place

All the federal "safety" agencies should be advisory only.

Want to display the "FDA approved" logo, then follow the rules. If you don't, and you can find customers who don't care, then more power to you.

That goes for FDA, CPSC, OSHA, the lot of them.

They should have the same authority as ANSI.

 

[spat]

The majority of that shows no direct link. Ok it has more nutritional value and the article says that’s because raw milk cows are out to pasture. Ok buy pasture raised cows milk and it will be the same.
The link between a reduction in allergies and asthma is not proven and is just happenstance. Most people that drink raw milk don’t live in the city or make other healthy choices. So what’s the cause, the milk or the other things? I can tell you I live in the city and everyday I have to clean dried crusted buggers out of my nose, but I was in the 1000 islands camping for over a week and I don’t need to. So does camping cure my congestion? No it’s the air up there is cleaner and less vehicle traffic.
Also as stated there are many time and temperature combinations of pasteurization and currently pasteurized milk is done at 165-170 for 15 seconds to achieve the log reduction. You could pasteurize for 135 for 30 minutes and the milk would be less impacted, but that costs money so they don’t.
Look up the list of organic approved chemicals, yes chemicals are used regularly on organic products. Organic produce gets sprayed more frequently with chemicals because it washes off so easily. Think about it organic and raw milk shouldn’t coat more, but it does.
You could put your health against mine and I’m sure you’d be more healthy than me, but it’s not only based on raw milk. It’s mainly genes and your physical activity. Yes eating plays into it, but I could eat the same and work out the same as you and be less healthy or you could tell zero difference if you ate organically and I ate conventionally grown foods.

If the cleaner air up there cured your congestion, then I would say it wasn't camping per se, but it was camping up there.

Yep, the raw milk might not be the key, it probably is all the other things that raw milk people do that makes the difference. Your average raw milk drinker probably eats much healthier than your average junk food junky in general.

That means correlation but not causation. That doesn’t mean it's not a good thing.

If you do 10 things different and end up healthier, you could try to figure out which one it was, or you could just keep doing those 10 and look for something else to add.

 

[ronstar]

Cuz humans drinking cow milk is sooooooo "natural".

 

[Dr. Evil]

It boils down to this IMHO. The more "they" regulate the easier it is for "them" to take away. Remember when that psycho governor Whitmer was going after people during the scamdemic for buying seeds and wanting to plant their own food? If the scamdemic didn't open your eyes to the huge conflicts of interest present related to the alphabet agencies you've been sucking the guberment teat too long. Like I mentioned before how "they" would love nothing more than for you to have to go to the medical doctor to purchase vitamin C or D3 under the pretense that supplements can be dangerous if given out or taken incorrectly. Like they don't have enough to address with big pharma and how that industry is part of being responsible for being the 3rd leading cause of death in the US.

 

[99cummins]

So I’ve been involved in animal agriculture my entire life. Grew up on a dairy farm, transitioned to raising heifers for another dairy farm and now raise beef, pork and lamb to direct market to customers in both bulk sales and individual cuts. Our animals are now being butchered at a friends small, but usda and state inspected facility. I’m intimately familiar with all of this. The usda and state are bullies, especially to the small outfits. Some of the rules and regulations are just gov bullshit. However, many of the rules/regulations they have are absolutely best practices to keep our foods safe. I don’t always agree with how they go about enforcing the rules or even informing you of a minor violation, but most of the regulations are good. I don’t want any of our customers or myself and my family getting ill from something we sell. In my perfect world, the usda/state ag and markets would be more advisory but unfortunately you would still have to give them some teeth to go after some operations that may do something that makes the meats unsafe.

Raw milk-I’ve milked cows. I’ve been on a number of dairy farms. I like pasteurization and we don’t drink raw milk even though we have it available to us from our animals. I think it’s a good idea that ensures the safety of the milk. That being said, I think you should be able to buy raw milk so long as you have been informed of the risks it carries. New York allows farms to sell raw milk off the farm. If you go to that farm and the operation is satisfactory to you and you trust the farmer, have at your raw milk. To say that there are only benefits to raw milk and zero risk is ignorant. That doesn’t mean I want it outlawed though. It’s foolish that I can go buy enough alcohol to put myself in a comma but not raw milk. Know the risks and make your own decisions.

 

[Jsmegs77]

As someone who used to work for a Cargill meatpacking plant (the old Taylor Beef plant in Wyalusing PA), if you think slaughterhouses are clean you should take a tour, you’d see some shit (literally). And yes, there’s a USDA inspector on site. Things don’t get sanitized or cleaned nearly as well or as often as you might think.

I’d be willing to bet there’s not a whole lot of difference in bacterial load from a cut of Amish butchered beef vs. a USDA “inspected” cut. Furthermore, if you actually cook your food you have little to worry about anyhow.

 

[Saltwater60]

As someone who used to work for a Cargill meatpacking plant (the old Taylor Beef plant in Wyalusing PA), if you think slaughterhouses are clean you should take a tour, you’d see some shit (literally). And yes, there’s a USDA inspector on site. Things don’t get sanitized or cleaned nearly as well or as often as you might think.

I’d be willing to bet there’s not a whole lot of difference in bacterial load from a cut of Amish butchered beef vs. a USDA “inspected” cut. Furthermore, if you actually cook your food you have little to worry about anyhow.

I’m sure you’re correct on meat plants not being as clean as many would think and cooking food does make it safe, but remember you’re buying meat and not meat contaminated with feces. Also remember if those plants are as dirty as you say with oversight what would they look like without oversight?

 

[spat]

So I’ve been involved in animal agriculture my entire life. Grew up on a dairy farm, transitioned to raising heifers for another dairy farm and now raise beef, pork and lamb to direct market to customers in both bulk sales and individual cuts. Our animals are now being butchered at a friends small, but usda and state inspected facility. I’m intimately familiar with all of this. The usda and state are bullies, especially to the small outfits. Some of the rules and regulations are just gov bullshit. However, many of the rules/regulations they have are absolutely best practices to keep our foods safe. I don’t always agree with how they go about enforcing the rules or even informing you of a minor violation, but most of the regulations are good. I don’t want any of our customers or myself and my family getting ill from something we sell. In my perfect world, the usda/state ag and markets would be more advisory but unfortunately you would still have to give them some teeth to go after some operations that may do something that makes the meats unsafe.

Raw milk-I’ve milked cows. I’ve been on a number of dairy farms. I like pasteurization and we don’t drink raw milk even though we have it available to us from our animals. I think it’s a good idea that ensures the safety of the milk. That being said, I think you should be able to buy raw milk so long as you have been informed of the risks it carries. New York allows farms to sell raw milk off the farm. If you go to that farm and the operation is satisfactory to you and you trust the farmer, have at your raw milk. To say that there are only benefits to raw milk and zero risk is ignorant. That doesn’t mean I want it outlawed though. It’s foolish that I can go buy enough alcohol to put myself in a comma but not raw milk. Know the risks and make your own decisions.

Then look for the USDA label.

But don't force people who are willing to take the risk to pay for it too.

It's like seatbelts. They're a good idea, but freedom means you have to let people accept the responsibility for making their own bad choices.

 

[Saltwater60]

Then look for the USDA label.

But don't force people who are willing to take the risk to pay for it too.

It's like seatbelts. They're a good idea, but freedom means you have to let people accept the responsibility for making their own bad choices.

Then the risk takers to save a few bucks should have to pay their own medical bills if and when they get sick. Same with those that refuse to wear a seatbelt. You want to take risks fine, but I shouldn’t have to pay for it. Food borne illnesses cost is a lot of money.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Then the risk takers to save a few bucks should have to pay their own medical bills if and when they get sick. Same with those that refuse to wear a seatbelt. You want to take risks fine, but I shouldn’t have to pay for it. Food borne illnesses cost is a lot of money.

This is one of my issues with people that not only don't do anything to take care of their bodies but actually work hard at making the wrong choices regarding them. We all wind up paying for their lifestyle choices. If it's a lifestyle disease you should be responsible for the bill.

 

[Jsmegs77]

I’m sure you’re correct on meat plants not being as clean as many would think and cooking food does make it safe, but remember you’re buying meat and not meat contaminated with feces. Also remember if those plants are as dirty as you say with oversight what would they look like without oversight?

Depends greatly on the plant workers and owners/management. I’ve seen places with minimal outside interference that presented much better than those with government inspectors that had actual offices and designated parking. It’s caring about what you do and how you do it. Basically doing the right thing regardless of regulation rather than because of regulation.

Bottom line, if someone wishes to accept a particular risk factor in their food selection, why shouldn’t they be left alone to do that? How many people have chickens and butcher them in the yard, eat the eggs, and don’t obliterate them with industrial level antibiotics? How many people go and get half a beef from a local small farmer who cuts it himself? Does anyone think the Amish sell anything much different from what they themselves eat? Do they have rampant food borne illness in their communities, that they then seek public assistance in correcting? I’ll go with no on that point too. What about wild game? Nobody gets the USDA involved when cutting up their deer.

If one wishes to only consume USDA stamped meats, that’s absolutely their prerogative. But I may wish to consume unregulated meats, and that is my prerogative as well. I’m perfectly ok with the risk level, I have had no ill effects and I’ve been doing it my entire life. I’ve had worse results eating at a local Chinese buffet.

 

[Uninformed and Compliant]

I’m sure you’re correct on meat plants not being as clean as many would think and cooking food does make it safe, but remember you’re buying meat and not meat contaminated with feces. Also remember if those plants are as dirty as you say with oversight what would they look like without oversight?

Hotdogs get a USDA stamp, despite what's in them.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Hotdogs get a USDA stamp, despite what's in them.

I thought we were talking about meat.

 

[Saltwater60]

Hotdogs get a USDA stamp, despite what's in them.

You have a point there. I eat two a year if that.
On a serious note one needs to consider what the USDA is looking for and it’s not nutrition or good for you, it’s mainly a safe food handling inspection to ensure the beef/meat is safe for human consumption. Meat Inspection: The Edible Stamp of Approval - Clover Meadows Beef

 

[John Stark]

Its amazing the level of trust people put into government departments that are run by total morons who have no experience in what the government department oversees, or who are politically appointed hacks who could care less about what they are supposed to be overseeing. How many people in the USDA are long time agricultural workers or have run their own AG business?

Here is an article detailing precisely the topic at hand (USDA and beef inspections) and how retarded people in government are:

Poke and Sniff: A Lesson from 1906 ⋆ Brownstone Institute

The case of poke-and-sniff in meat-packing should serve as a warning for all measures that claim to improve our health, whether designed to protect us from disease, balance our diet, or bring us safety or any other reason.

brownstone.org

Poke and Sniff!!! Went on for about 90 years before the practice was done away with, all in response to a situation that was nothing more than another excuse to make another useless federal agency to have oversight over what should be dealt with mostly by local and county officials.

Poke and Sniff was a policy only a moron would think was practical and useful for beef inspections! But it became enshrined as "best practice" because there is no accountability in our government AT ALL, and there hasn't been in a long while.

Department after department in our so-called "government" came about just like this; newspapers and government hype some bullshit story or situation (real or imagined), and slam bang! We now have a command and control economy run almost completely by government hacks and brown shirts along with their corporate pay masters.

The massive amount of regulation, taxation, special carve outs, inspections, permits, insurance, compliance, and on and on is nothing more than a government power grab to crush the little guy out of business (who can't afford compliance or lawyers to fight it) and to create the massive corporate cartels who now think they run not just our own country, but the world.

We live in a fascist state (defined as the collusion between government and big business to rule over a nation and its people with near total control) with an illusion of Liberty and a base veneer of "legality."

I have witnessed this first hand in the rural areas where I work and live in this shit hole state. Smaller farms and businesses get bought up by the corporate conglomerates because they can no longer afford the demands of government compliance and the entailing costs of "doing business" in a rigged economy, where the only real competition is which conglomerate gets their hand on the next bankrupt or otherwise defunct business.

The big corporate entities are corrupt to the bone, and they wield political power through their lobbyists to gets all of these regulations, taxes, and compliance matters passed into law as a means of creating a less competitive business environment and an economy that is run by them and for them. When "compliance" costs go up, they hire another lawyer or accountant to handle that and to pass the new compliance costs onto the consumer. Adding a new compliance officer is chump change to these corporations compared to the profits they will reap as other businesses go under or sell out to them.

Last I checked, the Founders were no more in favor of oligarchy than they were in favor of "democracy," and yet that is, at a minimum, precisely where we are at today.

We are ruled by the corporations and their chosen political hacks who supposedly "represent" us; backed up by a massive bureaucracy that serves no purpose than to rule over us no matter who we vote for, and to provide guaranteed votes from government employees who vote for their own self-interest (i.e., Big Government) and who should never have been allowed to be unionized in the first place.

All of the massive corporations that own everything now ought to be trust busted and broken up as monopolies, and a very large number of government agencies should be done away with completely or subsumed into other agencies.

That will never happen now at this point. People with power do not relinquish such power easily or without a fight, and we have as a People failed to heed the warnings of our Founders on this matter.

 

[spat]

Then the risk takers to save a few bucks should have to pay their own medical bills if and when they get sick. Same with those that refuse to wear a seatbelt. You want to take risks fine, but I shouldn’t have to pay for it. Food borne illnesses cost is a lot of money.

Absolutely.

There are plenty of risky things I do, that will eventually cost me money.

But I'm not giving up eating red meat, or too much sugar, and I don't exercise enough.

And you can't force me into some shared healthcare cost scheme and then demand that I change my lifestyle to meet with your approval because of it.

The leftist notion that they hate to see anyone suffer does not justify their demand for everyone to life their life the way they demand.

 

[repete]

This is probably perfectly legal since there are expeditions of small egg producers. For beef and pork any slaughter needs to take place at a usda plant/butcher unless it’s for yourself. There are plenty of other things they could do to make money to skirt having to use any government services.

So should we be made to have our deer, rabbits and fish processed at a USDA facilty?

 

[ronstar]

Then look for the USDA label.

But don't force people who are willing to take the risk to pay for it too.

It's like seatbelts. They're a good idea, but freedom means you have to let people accept the responsibility for making their own bad choices.

So you are against people having to pay a fine for not wearing their seat belt while driving or as a passenger?

 

[fresch]

Was just going to ask that.