Mossberg Shockwave

[GUNSICK]

My point is you should have no exemption.
It seems any grey area means you throw the person into the system and say fuck it I got mine sucka. This scenario has been played out countless times on many forums, good to know where you stand.

He's obviously more qualified than a regular civilian.

 

[Stretz Tactical Inc.]

I do have a problem with all that.

I doubt anything is going to change anytime soon.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I doubt anything is going to change anytime soon.

You think it's okay to disarm a guy at a routine traffic stop for speeding that tells you he's carrying and produces a handgun carry license who obviously isn't a criminal if he has one?

What about those that don't inform? Do you search them too on routine traffic stops for speeding?

 

[Stretz Tactical Inc.]

You think it's okay to disarm a guy at a routine traffic stop for speeding that tells you he's carrying and produces a handgun carry license who obviously isn't a criminal if he has one?

What about those that don't inform? Do you search them too on routine traffic stops for speeding?

Everything is situation dependent. There is no one size fits all

 

[Marine Cpl]

Everything is situation dependent. There is no one size fits all

Routine stops. That's the situation.

 

[Stretz Tactical Inc.]

This thread is quickly becoming an anti cop thread. I tried to give guys my advice as I have seen some silly shit happen in the street. The laws suck, the state sucks and cops don't always make the best decisions - sometimes it is on them, sometimes it is they way the law is written, sometimes it is the bosses orders. It has strayed way off topic. I'm unsubscribing from the thread. Lesson learned - some people are their own worst enemy and maybe they need to learn the hard way. Good luck!

 

[dubleuhb]

It plays out in forums because everybody is a tough guy on the internet, instead of having intelligent conversation

Have a donut, relax, I just gave my opinion, if that sets you off Lord help anyone in your jurisdiction, damn.

This crap attitude that somehow you're superior is all I need know about what side your on, damn.

 

[GUNSICK]

This thread is quickly becoming an anti cop thread. I tried to give guys my advice as I have seen some silly shit happen in the street. The laws suck, the state sucks and cops don't always make the best decisions - sometimes it is on them, sometimes it is they way the law is written, sometimes it is the bosses orders. It has strayed way off topic. I'm unsubscribing from the thread. Lesson learned - some people are their own worst enemy and maybe they need to learn the hard way. Good luck!

Quitter.

 

[Marine Cpl]

This thread is quickly becoming an anti cop thread. I tried to give guys my advice as I have seen some silly shit happen in the street. The laws suck, the state sucks and cops don't always make the best decisions - sometimes it is on them, sometimes it is they way the law is written, sometimes it is the bosses orders. It has strayed way off topic. I'm unsubscribing from the thread. Lesson learned - some people are their own worst enemy and maybe they need to learn the hard way. Good luck!

This right there is the reason we have problems with police. You can't take someone else's differing opinions. I was on your side earlier. But the minute I stray from that.... I'm against you and am anti cop.

 

[Tinman]

All I wanted was an opinion on the Mossberg Shockwave that I was thinking about buying. Wow did this thread derail quickly. Thanks a lot .

 

[freddy]

The crux of the Shockwave's problem is that according to NYS law, it's neither a firearm, pistol, rifle, or shotgun. It's not classified as anything according to NYS definitions.

It is classified as a firearm by federal definition however. In NYS firearms are illegal unless exempted. Federal law supercedes state law when there is a conflict between the two.

So would the federal definition supercede the state one? If so, then it'll be illegal because it's a firearm.

Will, did you read the letter from the police commisioner?
https://www.dark-storm.com/images/promo/0/SCPD-Shockwave-Letter-5-19-2017.pdf

 

[Marine Cpl]

All I wanted was an opinion on the Mossberg Shockwave that I was thinking about buying. Wow did it derail quickly.

For what it is, it looks good not counting the legalities of it whether legal or not or gray. Here is a good video on the proper way to hold it, the shooting and accuracy of it.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Will, did you read the letter from the police commisioner?
https://www.dark-storm.com/images/promo/0/SCPD-Shockwave-Letter-5-19-2017.pdf

Letters from police commissioners, attorneys, or manufacturers mean nothing. You should know that already. Only an interpretation from a judge means anything.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

@freddy

Dsi? Nah. Not a letter from them.....the last letter........

 

[GUNSICK]

All I wanted was an opinion on the Mossberg Shockwave that I was thinking about buying. Wow did it derail quickly.

You should get one

 

[freddy]

@freddy

Dsi? Nah. Not a letter from them.....the last letter........

I don't understand.

 

[freddy]

Letters from police commissioners, attorneys, or manufacturers mean nothing. You should know that already. Only an interpretation from a judge means anything.

In other words, no, you did not read it.

 

[Marine Cpl]

In other words, no, you did not read it.

I did. You posted it on another thread. It still means nothing.

 

[freddy]

I did. You posted it on another thread. It still means nothing.

Okay good. Just making sure it still means nothing.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Okay good. Just making sure it still means nothing.

You think a letter from a commissioner in Long Island is going to be binding on the whole state and negate a Penal Law? You think when the Penal Law is read to a jury they will be instructed to disregard it and to go by the police commissioner's letter assuming they contradict one another?

 

[freddy]

You think a letter from a commissioner in Long Island is going to be binding on the whole state and negate a Penal Law? You think when the Penal Law is read to a jury they will be instructed to disregard it and to go by the police commissioner's letter assuming they contradict one another?

No, Will, I certainly do not think that.

But the letter is an example of the process to interpret the intertwined federal and state definitions (eg 'firearm').

Also, there is this...

"No provision of this chapter shall be construed as indicating an intent on the part of the Congress to occupy the field in which such provision operates to the exclusion of the law of any State on the same subject matter, unless there is a direct and positive conflict between such provision and the law of the State so that the two cannot be reconciled or consistently stand together."

[...]

(3) The term “firearm” means (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.

18 U.S. Code Chapter 44 - FIREARMS​

 

[Marine Cpl]

No, Will, I certainly do not think that.

But the letter is an example of the process to interpret the intertwined federal and state definitions (eg 'firearm').

Also, there is this...

"No provision of this chapter shall be construed as indicating an intent on the part of the Congress to occupy the field in which such provision operates to the exclusion of the law of any State on the same subject matter, unless there is a direct and positive conflict between such provision and the law of the State so that the two cannot be reconciled or consistently stand together."

[...]

(3) The term “firearm” means (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.

18 U.S. Code Chapter 44 - FIREARMS​

I'm not understanding your point. Are you saying they are not in conflict of one another?

 

[spat]

The crux of the Shockwave's problem is that according to NYS law, it's neither a firearm, pistol, rifle, or shotgun. It's not classified as anything according to NYS definitions.

It is classified as a firearm by federal definition however. In NYS firearms are illegal unless exempted. Federal law supercedes state law when there is a conflict between the two.

So would the federal definition supercede the state one? If so, then it'll be illegal because it's a firearm.

If that were the case, every rifle and shotgun would need to be on a pistol permit to be legal, because they are all firearms to the ATF.

 

[Marine Cpl]

If that were the case, every rifle and shotgun would need to be on a pistol permit to be legal, because they are all firearms to the ATF.

Nowhere in the penal law does it say that firearms need to be on pistol permits.

 

[spat]

Nowhere in the penal law does it say that firearms need to be on pistol permits.

LOL, that's the only reason you *ever* need a permit in NY.

S 265.01-b Criminal possession of a firearm.
A person is guilty of criminal possession of a firearm when he or she:
(1) possesses any firearm or; (2) lawfully possesses a firearm prior to
the effective date of the chapter of the laws of two thousand thirteen
which added this section subject to the registration requirements of
subdivision sixteen-a of section 400.00 of this chapter and knowingly
fails to register such firearm pursuant to such subdivision.
Criminal possession of a firearm is a class E felony.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Read penal law 400. Nowhere does it say that firearms go on pistol permits. It says pistols and revolvers good on permits.

 

[spat]

Read penal law 400. Nowhere does it say that firearms go on pistol permits. It says pistols and revolvers good on permits.

Read pl265 above, firearms are illegal unless they are on a permit, period.

Good thing NYS doesn't consider rifles and shotguns firearms.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Read pl265 above, firearms are illegal unless they are on a permit, period.

Good thing NYS doesn't consider rifles and shotguns firearms.

I did. It says subject to the registration requirements of Penal Law 400. Then if you read Penal Law 400, it lists the types of licenses. It lists the licenses for dealers and FFL's to possess, carry, or repair any firearms. It lists licenses for police to carry and possess any firearms. Then when it gets to us, it says a license for a PISTOL or REVOLVER to have and carry concealed. It makes no mention of firearms other than pistols or revolvers. That's the only license we can have.

You should really read Penal Law 400.

 

[spat]

I did. It says subject to the registration requirements of Penal Law 400. Then if you read Penal Law 400, it lists the types of licenses. It lists the licenses for dealers and FFL's to possess, carry, or repair any firearms. It lists licenses for police to carry and possess any firearms. Then when it gets to us, it says a license for a PISTOL or REVOLVER to have and carry concealed. It makes no mention of firearms other than pistols or revolvers. That's the only license we can have.

You should really read Penal Law 400.

Yep, the only license we can have is for handguns, all other firearms are illegal.

You can only have rifles and shotguns because N.Y. doesn't consider them firearms, that much at least is well understood.

Ask any attorney familiar with N.Y. firearms law if you don't believe me.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Yep, the only license we can have is for handguns, all other firearms are illegal.

You can only have rifles and shotguns because N.Y. doesn't consider them firearms, that much at least is well understood.

Ask any attorney familiar with N.Y. firearms law if you don't believe me.

I'm not disputing anything you just said in the quote above. I never once said that rifles and shotguns are firearms.