Multiple injuries reported after Michigan high school shooting; suspect in custody

[BuffNiag]

Parents of suspected Michigan school shooter plead not guilty to manslaughter

A judge set James and Jennifer Crumbley's bonds at $500,000 each, saying there was concern about them being flight risks because they were apprehended following a manhunt.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[dwa12479]

Thats like saying you shouldn't leave car keys out or steak knives accessible. I think it sets a dangerous precedent to charge the parents with involuntary manslaughter.

 

[GOPerfect]

I guess I am in the minority on this one.

Parents should be charged, tried and convicted.

The past statement is in regards to this particular event, not all shootings.

Each incident needs to be looked at on an individual basis.

 

[Grimscale]

Parents should be charged, tried and convicted.

That, effectively, supports the Democrat's demands for "lock 'em up" laws regarding guns, then.

 

[livingston]

That is a military style gun to the anti gunners...

 

[Uninformed and Compliant]

 

[Parzival]

I guess I am in the minority on this one.

Parents should be charged, tried and convicted.

The past statement is in regards to this particular event, not all shootings.

Each incident needs to be looked at on an individual basis.

Agreed but only if they can prove the parents bought and gave the gun to the kid for Christmas. And it’s not manslaughter, it’s negligence at most.

Based on their behavior prior to arrest, they are guilty of something though. But that could just be mental illness of their own.

 

[Uninformed and Compliant]

Agreed but only if they can prove the parents bought and gave the gun to the kid for Christmas. And it’s not manslaughter, it’s negligence at most.

Based on their behavior prior to arrest, they are guilty of something though. But that could just be mental illness of their own.

May have been fleeing from the press. The phone calls and texts would be non-stop. Who knows.

 

[spat]

I guess I am in the minority on this one.

Parents should be charged, tried and convicted.

The past statement is in regards to this particular event, not all shootings.

Each incident needs to be looked at on an individual basis.

And if he'd stolen their car and driven it into the crowd at a soccer game at the highschool, same thing ?

What if he just took a kitchen knife and stabbed a few people ?

 

[Acer-m14]

should the School ( teacher / staff / principal .. ) be charged too .. they knew about this kids issues .. ???

 

[GOPerfect]

So you do not know the facts of the case?

nd if he'd stolen their car and driven it into the crowd at a soccer game at the highschool, same thing ?

What if he just took a kitchen knife and stabbed a few people ?

 

[GOPerfect]

That, effectively, supports the Democrat's demands for "lock 'em up" laws regarding guns, then.

Completely wrong, you appear to not know the details of this case.

 

[dwa12479]

More details coming to light definitely seem to make the parents out to be complicit. This is a horrible story

 

[Acer-m14]

More details coming to light definitely seem to make the parents out to be complicit. This is a horrible story

the details ??

 

[spat]

So you do not know the facts of the case?

Other than the parents getting called in about the notebook stuff ?

The question still stands. If he had gone home, then stolen the car and drove back, do you still think they should be criminally liable ?


What illegal action did they take ?

 

[dwa12479]

the details ??

Michigan parents found in building; bond set at $500K apiece

www.whec.com

 

[GOPerfect]

Other than the parents getting called in about the notebook stuff ?

The question still stands. If he had gone home, then stolen the car and drove back, do you still think they should be criminally liable ?


What illegal action did they take ?

Sometimes actions do not need to be completely illegal.

 

[GOPerfect]

I am eager to watch this case and see where it leads. So far, I have a lot on this incident. I have read the things that have been posted by both parents. I have read reports from the school in regards to the young man and his actions and previous behavior. I have read his Facebook posts, that he posted that his parents were aware of.

I read that the school had made the parents of threats to other children, the graphics pictures that he was drawing and etching into his school desks.

The parents were aware of drawings and statements to include, Images that officials said were drawn by the teenager included a gun with the words "the thoughts won't stop, help me" and a bullet with the words "blood everywhere,"

The day before the shooting, the son was seen searching ammo, ballistics and gun laws in the State, the teacher that saw all of this tried to reach the mother and left a voice mail. Mom texted her son later that day, "Lol. I’m not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught.”

The gun was bought for the child even though the parents knew he very well may be a serious danger to others.

The school urged the parents to take him out of school for a period of time and get him some assistance, help and counseling. They refused.


Under Michigan law, an involuntary manslaughter charge can be pursued if there's evidence someone contributed to a victim's harm or death.

I do not know all in this case, what I do know is this...

Today, all of the dead would be alive if the parents had done their job as parents. They knew, KNEW, their child was touched in a bad way, they knew that he was having serious issues at school. They knew that he was troubled. They knew that he was on some serious mental health meds. They knew all of this and still bought him a gun. They bought him spare magazines for that gun and they bought him ammo. This was not the fathers gun that the son was able to shoot at a club or a range, this was purchased as a Xmas gift for this kid. He used the tool that his parents gave him.

I will watch this close.

 

[GOPerfect]

I am eager to watch this case and see where it leads. So far, I have a lot on this incident. I have read the things that have been posted by both parents. I have read reports from the school in regards to the young man and his actions and previous behavior. I have read his Facebook posts, that he posted that his parents were aware of.

I read that the school had made the parents of threats to other children, the graphics pictures that he was drawing and etching into his school desks.

The parents were aware of drawings and statements to include, Images that officials said were drawn by the teenager included a gun with the words "the thoughts won't stop, help me" and a bullet with the words "blood everywhere,"

The day before the shooting, the son was seen searching ammo, ballistics and gun laws in the State, the teacher that saw all of this tried to reach the mother and left a voice mail. Mom texted her son later that day, "Lol. I’m not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught.”

The gun was bought for the child even though the parents knew he very well may be a serious danger to others.

The school urged the parents to take him out of school for a period of time and get him some assistance, help and counseling. They refused.


Under Michigan law, an involuntary manslaughter charge can be pursued if there's evidence someone contributed to a victim's harm or death.

I do not know all in this case, what I do know is this...

Today, all of the dead would be alive if the parents had done their job as parents. They knew, KNEW, their child was touched in a bad way, they knew that he was having serious issues at school. They knew that he was troubled. They knew that he was on some serious mental health meds. They knew all of this and still bought him a gun. They bought him spare magazines for that gun and they bought him ammo. This was not the fathers gun that the son was able to shoot at a club or a range, this was purchased as a Xmas gift for this kid. He used the tool that his parents gave him.

I will watch this close.

Hell, maybe I am completely wrong on all of this. Tell me why I am wrong.

And, please do not use the car or knife to prove your point. Open for all to explain why I am wrong.

 

[spat]

Hell, maybe I am completely wrong on all of this. Tell me why I am wrong.

And, please do not use the car or knife to prove your point. Open for all to explain why I am wrong.

Why would a car or knife be any different than a gun ?

What if the kid built a bomb instead ?

The kid was old enough to be responsible for his own actions (as evident by his being charged as an adult).

Sure, the parents should have known something was wrong. So should the school. They didn't have to send him back to class either.

Should the principal be charged too ?

 

[GOPerfect]

Why would a car or knife be any different than a gun ?

What if the kid built a bomb instead ?

The kid was old enough to be responsible for his own actions (as evident by his being charged as an adult).

Sure, the parents should have known something was wrong. So should the school. They didn't have to send him back to class either.

Should the principal be charged too ?

If he were drawing pictures of blood guts and running over other people and a day later they bought him a gun, yep.

If he were drawing pictures and letting the parents know that he was going to blow people up, and they bought him all the supplies needed to build a bomb, yep.

The principle was not aware of the Facebook postings, they were not aware of the drugs he was taking. So no.

 

[SomeSoldier]

If he were drawing pictures of blood guts and running over other people and a day later they bought him a gun, yep.

If he were drawing pictures and letting the parents know that he was going to blow people up, and they bought him all the supplies needed to build a bomb, yep.

The principle was not aware of the Facebook postings, they were not aware of the drugs he was taking. So no.

The school was aware of the drawings and demanded he seek counseling.

It was probably not wise to buy a hand gun with a mentally disturbed child in the house but is there a law against it?

It probably wasn't smart to not have it stored in a safe but is there a law against that?

If there is a mental disturbed child living in the home with their parents does that mean the parents no longer have the right to self defense?

 

[GOPerfect]

The school was aware of the drawings and demanded he seek counseling.

It was probably not wise to buy a hand gun with a mentally disturbed child in the house but is there a law against it?

It probably wasn't smart to not have it stored in a safe but is there a law against that?

If there is a mental disturbed child living in the home with their parents does that mean the parents no longer have the right to self defense?

The school cannot force him to do counseling. They may have some responsibility in this, I do not see it as criminally.

The parents did not just buy a gun. They bought the gun for their very disturbed child. They were very aware of his mindset and bought the tool needed to carry out his angry.

It was stored in the kids backpack.

This gun was not owned by the parents, it was not their gun.

 

[SomeSoldier]

The school cannot force him to do counseling. They may have some responsibility in this, I do not see it as criminally.

The parents did not just buy a gun. They bought the gun for their very disturbed child. They were very aware of his mindset and bought the tool needed to carry out his angry.

It was stored in the kids backpack.

This gun was not owned by the parents, it was not their gun.

I agree the school did not commit a crime and cannot force him into counseling. My point was the school was aware and could have not permitted him to come back on campus, along with dozen other possible actions.

The kid was not legally allowed to own a gun. His parents owned it but yes it was purchased for him.

I think from what I read it was stored in a bed side table? I don't know if that was the father's or kids. If the father's then it was stolen? If the kids, very stupid and probably criminal.

The problem I have is what the left is going to try to do with this case. It's not going to be about this incident. Its going to be about the entire community of firearms owners.

I still think this is all too convenient.

 

[FrankenCub]

However this turns out, I bet that his parents knew he was fucked in the head for many years. This wasn't something brewing for a week. They knew and didn't give a shit as long as they didn't have to deal with his outbursts.

 

[GOPerfect]

I agree the school did not commit a crime and cannot force him into counseling. My point was the school was aware and could have not permitted him to come back on campus, along with dozen other possible actions.

The kid was not legally allowed to own a gun. His parents owned it but yes it was purchased for him.

I think from what I read it was stored in a bed side table? I don't know if that was the father's or kids. If the father's then it was stolen? If the kids, very stupid and probably criminal.

The problem I have is what the left is going to try to do with this case. It's not going to be about this incident. Its going to be about the entire community of firearms owners.

I still think this is all too convenient.

I can agree with you more than I do on a few points.

As usual, shame that Left and Right needs to be the issue here.

The Left will in fact use this as another way to go after Rights of good Americans. Damn shitty IMO.

I read somewhere, cannot find it, but I will, the gun was allowed to be kept in the sons room.

Horrible that we as a Nation have this need to turn everything into politics.

 

[Uninformed and Compliant]

It was probably not wise to buy a hand gun with a mentally disturbed child in the house but is there a law against it?

It probably wasn't smart to not have it stored in a safe but is there a law against that?

If there is a mental disturbed child living in the home with their parents does that mean the parents no longer have the right to self defense?

Point of order, and I AM nit-picking -

If it is true that the weapon was bought for the kid,
and the parents knew he was fucked up,

...then it is NOT within their liberties to buy that weapon FOR THE KID.
A specific law against buying one for him is irrelevant - you'd be falling into a gun grabber's trap, thinking there needs to be one, which is how we get garbage like SAFE Act and mag limits. EXACTLY how we get that trash. I know damn well that isn't your goal, though, which is why I'm pointing this out.

It was likely that the kid was going to act out everything he'd told them he'd do. They then buy him a pistol, knowing what they knew.

Not everything needs a law, and most things shouldn't need a law.
If the kid hadn't shot everyone, then your idea would stand - no law had been broken, since nothing had happened - it was clearly within their liberties to buy it for him, if nothing had happened.

But then he lit up a bunch of people.
That is not reasonable.
And they KNEW.
Buying a pistol for that kid, if they knew, is not reasonable. And not within their liberties.

No specific law is needed. They are guilty of contributing to the murder and injury.

What they did was legal, right up until the point that they failed to control their disturbed and drugged child with a weapon that they'd bought for him to use, and left under his control with no supervision.

I suck, that I cannot explain it better. But using the SAFE Act and mag limits as an example, murder is already illegal. SAFE Act does nothing but limit people who have no intention of committing a crime, right? Your suggestion that "there's no law against it" kind of begs that there needs to be one to stop people from buying a handgun for psycho teens on mind altering pharma drugs.

It's a gun-grabber trap. Take care with that argument.

And as I said, I'm nit-picking.

 

[spat]

The school cannot force him to do counseling. They may have some responsibility in this, I do not see it as criminally.

The parents did not just buy a gun. They bought the gun for their very disturbed child. They were very aware of his mindset and bought the tool needed to carry out his angry.

It was stored in the kids backpack.

This gun was not owned by the parents, it was not their gun.

The school can expel him and bar him from the premises instead of sending him back to class.

They can search his bag just as easily as the parents can.

 

[GOPerfect]

The school can expel him and bar him from the premises instead of sending him back to class.

They can search his bag just as easily as the parents can.

Okay.? I am speaking of the charges that have been levied.

 

[spat]

Okay.? I am speaking of the charges that have been levied.

*If* the parents knew or should have known (and that's a big if), then they are accessories.


*but*, kids write and draw stuff all the time. That doesn't mean you expect it to happen. When I was in elementary school, we used to draw space battles and all sorts of stuff. I had a student teacher who had apparently just got done with that class and got it into her head that we thought that stuff was real, and we got very seriously questioned about it.

Well, duh, we know the difference between Battlestar Galactica and reality, but we're kids, and it's fun to pretend.

How many kids draw stuff like this but never have a problem ?

Maybe the schools should figure out why all of a sudden kids no longer have an outlet until they get to the point where they explode.