NY compliant AK47 options

[FRANKIE]

NY doesn't like you having an AK at all, even if you welded the mag to the receiver.

Truth is NY doesn't like us having any gun at all! (lol)
The best defense in a potential case is to avoid involvement in one in the first place.
For the most part, I believe we can all agree on that. The laws in this State are kind of
like, "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is is'.
Threads like these proof interesting talking points and are spot on with the forum.
Based on the fact that in this state, buzz words like 7.62 and 5.56 are equated as ace's and 8's,
I for one, feel more comfortable resigning myself (for the most part) to the 12 gauge and trapshooting.
That is until they declare a 12 gauge a weapon of mass destruction because of it's bore size.
Two excerpts struck me in the gentleman's #30 post above that about sums it up;

But you know what's best for yourself.

And if you choose to indulge,

Good luck

 

[spat]

There are 10's of thousands of rifles in standard configurations that aren't registered too. So what's your point?

You do what you want. The fact of the matter is upon arrest, the police have to check the rifle for operability. To do so they will fire it and remove the magazine. In a court of law if it gets to that and you don't plead out, the prosecution will reinsert that magazine over and over to prove their point.

Although not law makers, the State Police have stated that a bullet button is kosher if it has epoxy over it where it cannot be removed. Whether that is true according to the law or not, the fact of the matter is if arrested, you have to defend yourself. Perhaps you have the money for a lawyer, bail, and time off work to do so. If you do, more power to you.

Many disagree with you including lawyers. A Google search will show you are in the minority. But you know what's best for yourself.

Good luck.

A decent lawyer would tell you to avoid the risk you should not have any AK or AR pattern rifle at all.

Ultimately he arrest is about whatever a cop (who has already decided to harass you) decides. Once that happens, doesn't matter if all you had was an air soft rifle, the lawyer gets expensive.

As pointed out by another poster, it is all about how much freedom you require vs how much risk you are willing to take.

 

[FRANKIE]

A decent lawyer would tell you to avoid the risk

And regrettably, if the need for a decent lawyer ever arose,
Finding one might prove more daunting then the charges themselves.

 

[meketrefe]

I see that the dead horse beatings continue. LOL

A decent lawyer will not give you a different advice than NYSP in the same matters and
he/she would have probably attended the NYSP safe act education sessions like some of us did.
In that session it was adviced featureless rifles no matter what brand were exempt.

Mike Green and Mr. Hogan from NYSP answered many questions for compliance including AR and
AK type rifles as well as a few other classic firearms. Among those included fixed magazines, modified stocks, etc...

Consequently firearm owners and business owners who attended followed the advice and those firearms were either converting to compliance or people registered or some might have sold them of of state or what not.

In fact since the SAFE act hundreds of those AR and AK based carbines have been sold in several compliant versions.

The sessions with NYSP were recorded. Lawyers and Scope were there recording the answers.
Any decent lawyer and persecutor should know that the state has no case on those who followed their own advice.

I have Mr. Hogan's business card with me here in case on wants to give him a call.
Of course one can also call the hotline but one might get different answers depending on the person who takes
the call or the weather patterns that day.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but people should also know the facts.

 

[Toecutter]

Been seeing these around in stores

 

[meketrefe]

I have not seen that one. I think the 10/30 magazines are a waste of space and not really the best option to shoot from the bench or prone.

Hundreds of the FRS and Exhile coverted have been sold in local stores and continue to be sold today. I personally have seen
Stag and Rock River fly off the shelves along with the ammo and everything that had a trigger on it. Some saiga/vepr/ak based too but not so much.
If Hilary is elected expect the same country wide in any states they actually will allow a federal featureless ban.

Many people in NYS bought a bunch of parts for conversion based on NYSP advice and also the Manufacturers advice. Some people went to great
expense to make their firearms compliant.
I suggest people who didn't got to the NYSP education sessions or they are not informed please do not have very strong opinions becase we
might be confusing and deterring people new to the sports.


FRS...

Exile...

These are quite pricey. Not sure, perhaps is very expensive to get something ship to Lake Luzerne.

New "IN STOCK" Firearms for Sale

 

[dsdmmat]

Staying on topic with options "for" NY compliant AK-47 (AKM) not alternatives "to" the rifle titled in this thread;
If you must go the Bullet button route (fixed magazine),
NY doesn't like the bullet button opening where you can access the magazine release with a tool, bullet tip or anything of that matter.
It would be wise to close off the access hole and permanently weld the nuts to the back of the 4 fasteners; (where they must be removed by dremel)
View attachment 2676
In the top of the photo the BB is in original form. (with access)
The bottom of the photo, it has a steel
Plate spot welded in 3 places.
NO ACCESS TO MAGAZINE RELEASE. (fixed)
An old scrap receiver from a kit can be cannibalized to provide the steel plate.

I like it.

 

[spat]

I have not seen that one. I think the 10/30 magazines are a waste of space and not really the best option to shoot from the bench or prone.

Hundreds of the FRS and Exhile coverted have been sold in local stores and continue to be sold today. I personally have seen
Stag and Rock River fly off the shelves along with the ammo and everything that had a trigger on it. Some saiga/vepr/ak based too but not so much.
If Hilary is elected expect the same country wide in any states they actually will allow a federal featureless ban.

Many people in NYS bought a bunch of parts for conversion based on NYSP advice and also the Manufacturers advice. Some people went to great
expense to make their firearms compliant.
I suggest people who didn't got to the NYSP education sessions or they are not informed please do not have very strong opinions becase we
might be confusing and deterring people new to the sports.


FRS...

Exile...

These are quite pricey. Not sure, perhaps is very expensive to get something ship to Lake Luzerne.

New "IN STOCK" Firearms for Sale

Both of those recommend epoxying the stock to the rifle.
How many SKS, or even 10/22 rifle owners have epoxied their stock in place so that you can't install an aftermarket stock ?
Would you epoxy the stock onto your 10/22 ?

Its the same argument as epoxy on a BB

 

[meketrefe]

Nobody recommended epoxying anything unless there was no other way to secure it. Optional yes but not mandated.
The law says it cannot be readily convertible out of compliance that means by using a knob, quick release pin, etc...
Blind pins are ok too. Aluminum Rivets were discussed but not definitive answer was given. FRS stocks and Exile were sold and still
are sold w/o epoxy. They would not be selling them if they were not ok. Some of the vendors are plaintiffs and use the same counsels
that brought the suit to NYS so they wouldn't have sold those if they were not sure. As I said, hundreds have been sold w/o
epoxying anything. Same with old magazines and new stock 10/30 that only come with blind pins, follower block or even a rivet.

Same thing with the muzzle caps there is no need to weld them. I think lots of people got confused with the old federal ban
and even under the previous NY ban, there was no need to weld them. SAFE doesn't say anything about any of the
permanent changes being less permanent now than under the previous ban. Only introduced new restrictions but didn't change
that.
In fact stag and RRA sent many with the blind pin from factory, to NY gun shops and then sold to customers like that.
Other gun shop owners can confirm this here.

I always say if it makes someone sleep better at night then put some epoxy over the screw but when someone comes
with a drill is not going to make a difference if it is pinned, welded, epoxied or riveted. So don't make a huge mess
of your firearm that will be a huge headache should servicing be needed. Same thing goes for the magazines if a magazine
needs to be change of caliber like changing a 5.56 for a 6.8 upper for hunting season.

 

[spat]

Nobody recommended epoxying anything unless there was no other way to secure it. Optional yes but not mandated.
The law says it cannot be readily convertible out of compliance that means by using a knob, quick release pin, etc...
Blind pins are ok too. Aluminum Rivets were discussed but not definitive answer was given. FRS stocks and Exile were sold and still
are sold w/o epoxy. They would not be selling them if they were not ok. Some of the vendors are plaintiffs and use the same counsels
that brought the suit to NYS so they wouldn't have sold those if they were not sure. As I said, hundreds have been sold w/o
epoxying anything. Same with old magazines and new stock 10/30 that only come with blind pins, follower block or even a rivet.

Same thing with the muzzle caps there is no need to weld them. I think lots of people got confused with the old federal ban
and even under the previous NY ban, there was no need to weld them. SAFE doesn't say anything about any of the
permanent changes being less permanent now than under the previous ban. Only introduced new restrictions but didn't change
that.
In fact stag and RRA sent many with the blind pin from factory, to NY gun shops and then sold to customers like that.
Other gun shop owners can confirm this here.

I always say if it makes someone sleep better at night then put some epoxy over the screw but when someone comes
with a drill is not going to make a difference if it is pinned, welded, epoxied or riveted. So don't make a huge mess
of your firearm that will be a huge headache should servicing be needed. Same thing goes for the magazines if a magazine
needs to be change of caliber like changing a 5.56 for a 6.8 upper for hunting season.

What I'm saying is I have a bone stock 10/22, don't need anything but a screwdriver to swap out the stock.
The people telling me that I need to epoxy a BB if I use that for compliance on an AR, or AK wouldn't dream of telling me I need to epoxy the stock on the 10/22.

note: when I say epoxy, I am including all the permanence mods like blind pinning, etc...

 

[Marine Cpl]

What I'm saying is I have a bone stock 10/22, don't need anything but a screwdriver to swap out the stock.
The people telling me that I need to epoxy a BB if I use that for compliance on an AR, or AK wouldn't dream of telling me I need to epoxy the stock on the 10/22.

note: when I say epoxy, I am including all the permanence mods like blind pinning, etc...

Not the same thing. I explained that before already.

 

[spat]

Not the same thing. I explained that before already.

Yes, you go on about its ability to "accept" the mag, completely ignoring the fact that it isn't a detachable magazine that it can accept, and even then it can only do it if the mag has been removed.

If I take the fixed mag out of an SKS, it can accept a detachable one too.

 

[FRANKIE]

Been seeing these around in stores

View attachment 2713

I haven't seen those on the shelf either.
But it looks like it's just begging for a pair of aviation snips.

 

[meketrefe]

There is no need to epoxy anything. Once the gun has to be modified it doesn't matter if it is one screw or 100 screws.
Same way compliant ARs are not sold with the uppers epoxied as this would render the firearm un serviceable and NYSP there
were very specific not to do that and screw up the firearm. The "readily converted" I think it means you don't have the means to
change the configuration on the fly while operating the gun. Also folks should not carry a non compliant upper with the compliant
one, obviously.

In reality nobody here cares. We shoot with law enforcement every other week and some say why do that to a fine AR.
But also we are not going to suggest publicly not to follow the compliance conditions. so we have to educate with the facts from what we learned form NYSP, manufactures and some of the gun shops that have legal counsels.

So don't over think or over do things but also whatever makes you sleep better at night.

 

[meketrefe]

I haven't seen those on the shelf either.
But it looks like it's just begging for a pair of aviation snips.
View attachment 2732

Do you have something against thumb-less people? lol

 

[Marine Cpl]

Yes, you go on about its ability to "accept" the mag, completely ignoring the fact that it isn't a detachable magazine that it can accept, and even then it can only do it if the mag has been removed.

If I take the fixed mag out of an SKS, it can accept a detachable one too.

On a completely built rifle, can the magazine be removed? Yes or no?

If Yes, then it can accept another one.

 

[meketrefe]

What a shame, only 10 rounds allowed...

 

[dsdmmat]

On a completely built rifle, can the magazine be removed? Yes or no?

If Yes, then it can accept another one.

And you are correct about the SKS. As written it doesn't pass the test. But then again, out was designed with a fixed mag.

one has to define the terms removable, detachable and accept. Those definitions are not in the law. It is possible for you to have a rifle that cannot accept detachable magazines even if the origional magazine was removed. If the magazine cannot snap into place and operate the way it was designed it has not been accepted. Case in point the KGB tactical M1A mag block. You cannot remove the mag without the gun being taken apart. You cannot put another mag in unless it is still apart. Therefore it cannot accept a detachable magazine.

 

[FRANKIE]

Do you have something against thumb-less people? lol

No, but they sure would sound like shit on piano!

 

[Bushmaster]

AK's SUCK for much of everything... Unless ya like the true KNOWN DISTINCTIVE sound of one?

 

[Vati]

Although ugly in my opinion, here is another alternative. It looks like it would be comfortable.

View attachment 2659

I have one of these stocks on a AK. It does look awful but it is pretty functional. As for saying " buy a saiga". Its a good idea too, but to be honest, this works basically the same way.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Here's the thing that some are not getting about Standard bullet buttons. In NYS in order to be convicted of Criminal Possession of a Firearm, the firearm must be "OPERABLE". There are numerous cases referencing that the firearm must be OPERABLE to be convicted linked below.

Google

So you have a regular AR or an AK with the bolt missing but with every other feature. You cannot get charged with Criminal Possession of a Firearm. Same goes if you are caught with just a plain barrel or a receiver. The firearm or parts ARE NOT OPERABLE.

So now you have a completely assembled OPERABLE standard AR or AK. Can it accept a detachable magazine? The answer is yes.

So now you have a completely assembled OPERABLE standard AR or AK with a magazine inserted. Can it still accept a detachable magazine. The answer is yes because all you have to do is remove the magazine from the OPERABLE rifle by pressing the mag release as designed and the OPERABLE rifle will be capable of accepting another one.

So now you have a Bullet Button equipped AR or AK with no magazine inserted. Can it accept a detachable magazine? The answer is an obvious yes.

So now you have a Bullet Button equipped AR or AK with the magazine inserted. Can it still accept a detachable magazine? The answer is yes because all you have to do is remove the magazine by pressing the Bullet Button mag release with a pin or bullet as designed and the OPERABLE rifle will be capable of accepting another one. It doesn't matter if you use a finger or a pin. The action is the same. The magazine drops and the OPERABLE rifle is capable of accepting another one.

So now you have Bullet Button equipped AR or AK with the magazine inserted but the Bullet Button has epoxy or some type of weld sealing the hole closed. Can it accept a detachable magazine? The answer is no because the magazine CANNOT be REMOVED from the OPERABLE rifle.

With the SKS, the same concept applies. While the factory fixed magazine is in there and completely assembled and OPERABLE, it cannot accept a another magazine. You cannot use a mag release or a pin or bullet to drop the magazine. It is held in there by the trigger group which keeps the rifle OPERABLE.

If you remove the trigger group, it is no longer OPERABLE. You can then remove the magazine and clean it or swap it out. However, the minute you place that trigger group back on without a magazine inserted, you have now changed the rifle configuration to being OPERABLE with the ability to accept a detachable magazine.

 

[Clipazine]

Woah. how did i show up to an AK thread so late??

My opinion is... If you're going to have a bastardized Kalashnikov, get a Saiga 7.62x39.

Underneath the ugly furniture and wacky-ass magazine set-up, there is a solid russian made Kalash.

 

[spat]

Here's the thing that some are not getting about Standard bullet buttons. In NYS in order to be convicted of Criminal Possession of a Firearm, the firearm must be "OPERABLE". There are numerous cases referencing that the firearm must be OPERABLE to be convicted linked below.

Google

So you have a regular AR or an AK with the bolt missing but with every other feature. You cannot get charged with Criminal Possession of a Firearm. Same goes if you are caught with just a plain barrel or a receiver. The firearm or parts ARE NOT OPERABLE.

So now you have a completely assembled OPERABLE standard AR or AK. Can it accept a detachable magazine? The answer is yes.

So now you have a completely assembled OPERABLE standard AR or AK with a magazine inserted. Can it still accept a detachable magazine. The answer is yes because all you have to do is remove the magazine from the OPERABLE rifle by pressing the mag release as designed and the OPERABLE rifle will be capable of accepting another one.

So now you have a Bullet Button equipped AR or AK with no magazine inserted. Can it accept a detachable magazine? The answer is an obvious yes.

So now you have a Bullet Button equipped AR or AK with the magazine inserted. Can it still accept a detachable magazine? The answer is yes because all you have to do is remove the magazine by pressing the Bullet Button mag release with a pin or bullet as designed and the OPERABLE rifle will be capable of accepting another one. It doesn't matter if you use a finger or a pin. The action is the same. The magazine drops and the OPERABLE rifle is capable of accepting another one.

So now you have Bullet Button equipped AR or AK with the magazine inserted but the Bullet Button has epoxy or some type of weld sealing the hole closed. Can it accept a detachable magazine? The answer is no because the magazine CANNOT be REMOVED from the OPERABLE rifle.

With the SKS, the same concept applies. While the factory fixed magazine is in there and completely assembled and OPERABLE, it cannot accept a another magazine. You cannot use a mag release or a pin or bullet to drop the magazine. It is held in there by the trigger group which keeps the rifle OPERABLE.

If you remove the trigger group, it is no longer OPERABLE. You can then remove the magazine and clean it or swap it out. However, the minute you place that trigger group back on without a magazine inserted, you have now changed the rifle configuration to being OPERABLE with the ability to accept a detachable magazine.

I respect your opinion, but until there is some court case that clarifies what "detachable" means, we will have to agree to disagree.

In CA "detachable" means removable without the use of tools. Your definition of "detachable" meaning removable without rendering the rifle unusable would be a reasonable one, but isn't written anywhere in the law.

How about a theoretical mod that makes it impossible to insert a magazine on a closed bolt, but otherwise works normally ?
Would that meet your definition ? The gun cannot accept any mag (detachable or not) while it is in a state where it can operate "i.e. be fired"

 

[Marine Cpl]

I respect your opinion, but until there is some court case that clarifies what "detachable" means, we will have to agree to disagree.

In CA "detachable" means removable without the use of tools. Your definition of "detachable" meaning removable without rendering the rifle unusable would be a reasonable one, but isn't written anywhere in the law.

How about a theoretical mod that makes it impossible to insert a magazine on a closed bolt, but otherwise works normally ?
Would that meet your definition ? The gun cannot accept any mag (detachable or not) while it is in a state where it can operate "i.e. be fired"

Did you know that in California the Bullet Button is no longer legal?

 

[spat]

Did you know that in California the Bullet Button is no longer legal?

They redefined what a detachable magazine was with recent legislation. NY has no such definition.


2012 court case Haynie v Pleasanton forced the CA DOJ to admit that absent the new, more restrictive definition (that NY doesn't have) a rifle with a bullet button has a fixed magazine. A rifle with a fixed magazine cannot accept any additional magazine.

Removing a magazine from a rifle with a BB attached, or installing a magazine into a rifle that already has a BB is properly classified as gunsmithing, not merely operating the weapon. If the police are allowed to alter a rifle in that way (i.e. gunsmithing) to get a conviction, then every long gun you own could be an illegal SBR, 10 minutes with a simple hand tool is all it takes.

 

[Marine Cpl]

They redefined what a detachable magazine was with recent legislation. NY has no such definition.


2012 court case Haynie v Pleasanton forced the CA DOJ to admit that absent the new, more restrictive definition (that NY doesn't have) a rifle with a bullet button has a fixed magazine. A rifle with a fixed magazine cannot accept any additional magazine.

Removing a magazine from a rifle with a BB attached, or installing a magazine into a rifle that already has a BB is properly classified as gunsmithing, not merely operating the weapon. If the police are allowed to alter a rifle in that way (i.e. gunsmithing) to get a conviction, then every long gun you own could be an illegal SBR, 10 minutes with a simple hand tool is all it takes.

Do you really think that removing a magazine via a bullet button is gunsmithing?

That's a stretch.

A Bullet Button is just a cover over a standard magazine release that's hole is small enough to prevent your finger from utilizing it and instead allows a pin or pointed tip of any object small enough to fit in there and access the magazine release.

It doesn't lock the magazine in by any means.

 

[GOYABEAN]

FUAC and the cluster FUCK you created

 

[freddy]

What a pain in the ass all this NY crap is.

 

[spat]

Do you really think that removing a magazine via a bullet button is gunsmithing?

That's a stretch.

A Bullet Button is a standard magazine release with a cover over it that prevents your finger from utilizing it and instead allowed a pin or tip to fit in there and access the magazine release.

It doesn't lock the magazine in by any means.

Do you really think that removing a magazine via a bullet button is gunsmithing?

That's a stretch.

A Bullet Button is just a cover over a standard magazine release that's hole is small enough to prevent your finger from utilizing it and instead allows a pin or pointed tip of any object small enough to fit in there and access the magazine release.

It doesn't lock the magazine in by any means.

This is an AK were talking about. You can completely disassemble the rifle with no tools. Removing that magazine takes more tools than separating every moving part from the rifle.