NY SAFE Act And Its Recertification Fiasco

[livingston]

NY SAFE Act And Its Recertification Fiasco
The state of New York and her governor are finding that the fallout for the NY SAFE Act is far from over. You see, in addition to being a constitutionally questionable (at best) law, it’s also creating an administrative nightmare for county clerks.

You know, the people who have to actually deal with this stuff.

With thousands of New York’s lifetime permit holders facing mandatory re-certification this month, some are calling on Gov. Cuomo to push back the deadline.

The myriad of permits, required to own a modern pistol or revolver in the Empire State, are set to expire Jan. 31 under the provisions of the New York Secure Ammunition and Firearms Enforcement Act, signed by Cuomo in 2013. However, with some county clerks reporting that most of their expiring permits have yet to be re-certified, Republican lawmakers want the time limit extended.

“Many pistol permit holders in my district have yet to receive the proper paperwork alerting them of the need to recertify,” said state Sen. Rob Ortt, R-North Tonawanda. “We must delay the deadline to avoid what will become a bureaucratic nightmare for residents, law enforcement and local officials.”

An inefficient government bureaucracy? Say it ain’t so!

Seriously, this is about par for the course. Especially when you’re trying to upend an existing process for a new one that gives government tighter control. Further, just how many people figure they don’t need to recertify because they have lifetime permits? After all, the term “lifetime” has a particular meaning, so you’d forgive someone for assuming “lifetime” meant “lifetime” and all that.

Further, a number who have apparently been notified just aren’t doing it.

Clerks across the state have warned that they have had a poor turnout on the free recertification process. In one county only about 1,550 out of 18,000 have completed the process. In another, just 5,000 out of 20,000.

More at ...
NY SAFE Act And Its Recertification Fiasco - Bearing Arms

 

[ArmedCorgi]

Oh wow! I wonder if this will turnout similar to the AW registration?

 

[Edwardteach72]

Don't forget everyone, don't recertify and remember some gun forum lawyer told you that not to worry you won't have all your guns confiscated and possibly face felony charges it' all just a bluff by the state (Oh and that gun forum guy who tells you that probably sent his paperwork in weeks if not months ago. Also I am not the person sayin this, but seems to be a bunch of no lawyer gun forum lawyers on here giving that advice)

 

[Jmac00]

My wife made a great point: she said " I (Cuomo) got the SAFE ACT passed, I believe the state is safer because of what I (Cuomo) did. I did my job, you people have to figure out how to implement and enforce my edicts. I wash my hands of it"

She pretty much nailed it.

first, let me say I am sending in my "recertification" because this stupid ass law requires LAW ABIDING people to do just that.

However, here is the way I look at this. In 1994 I asked the state for permission to carry a firearm. I shouldn't have to ask, but thats what happens when you have dictators and cowards in charge. The state said you are of good moral character, you are mentally stable and are an upstanding member of New Yorkistan. You have our permission to carry a firearm concealed. This permission slip is good for your entire lifetime or until you do something bad, then we can revoke it.
To me, this is a contract between me and the State of New Yorkistan. A contract that is good for my lifetime. Now the state has come along and said, "your lifetime permission slip is no longer valid, we are changing the contract without your permission or consent and there will be no debate, do what we say or go to jail, or die, we really don't care which.

Had I won the lottery and had a couple hundred million in the bank, I would try and fight this. Luckily for Emperor Monkeyface, I don't have the cash to fight this

 

[ArmedCorgi]

I mean, with local government pushing back against state government it would seem to change the dynamic somewhat. We aren't just talking about people not recertifying we are talking about the added grievences from the counties. There is the potential for the state to not get recerts and hand down the order to the counties to revoke and confiscate only to have the issuing officers not revoke peoples permits. That would effectively stop this whole thing in its tracks. Right? Not that I have any faith. But if licensing officers refuse to revoke could the state then override the licensing officer and do the revoke/confiscation themselves?

 

[GUNSICK]

I hear they are mailing out free armbands with every registration they receive. Everything should work out fine.

 

[Robin]

Gee, they made me get a tatoo!

Robin Cain

 

[Edwardteach72]

I mean, with local government pushing back against state government it would seem to change the dynamic somewhat. We aren't just talking about people not recertifying we are talking about the added grievences from the counties. There is the potential for the state to not get recerts and hand down the order to the counties to revoke and confiscate only to have the issuing officers not revoke peoples permits. That would effectively stop this whole thing in its tracks. Right? Not that I have any faith. But if licensing officers refuse to revoke could the state then override the licensing officer and do the revoke/confiscation themselves?

The added push back from the counties, that doesn't mean shit. What about when something like 52 out of the 62 counties all passed resolutions against the safe act weeks after it was passed? Or even all the cities and towns that did the same thing. Oh boy that really showed New York State whose boss (here we are 5 years later)

 

[Edwardteach72]

I mean, with local government pushing back against state government it would seem to change the dynamic somewhat. We aren't just talking about people not recertifying we are talking about the added grievences from the counties. There is the potential for the state to not get recerts and hand down the order to the counties to revoke and confiscate only to have the issuing officers not revoke peoples permits. That would effectively stop this whole thing in its tracks. Right? Not that I have any faith. But if licensing officers refuse to revoke could the state then override the licensing officer and do the revoke/confiscation themselves?

The added push back from the counties, that doesn't mean shit. What about when something like 52 out of the 62 counties all passed resolutions against the safe act weeks after it was passed? Or even all the cities and towns that did the same thing. Oh boy that really showed New York State whose boss (here we are 5 years later)

 

[dubleuhb]

Hey Republican lawmakers who want an extension, your hands are not washed of this, remember that.
Instead of calling for more time how about calling this what it is, a cluster fuck, an infringement of rights, a do nothing law that criminals don't give a rats ass about, a law that supposedly was designed to curb gun crime but has done no such thing but has made more potential criminals of people for doing nothing.

So Republican lawmakers who want more time, Republican lawmakers who were on board passing this law, how about getting on board with what your constituents want and get rid of it.
Anything less means you are with FUAC, more time FU!!

 

[masterswimmer]

I mean, with local government pushing back against state government it would seem to change the dynamic somewhat. We aren't just talking about people not recertifying we are talking about the added grievences from the counties. There is the potential for the state to not get recerts and hand down the order to the counties to revoke and confiscate only to have the issuing officers not revoke peoples permits. That would effectively stop this whole thing in its tracks. Right? Not that I have any faith. But if licensing officers refuse to revoke could the state then override the licensing officer and do the revoke/confiscation themselves?

Another problem is consistency. Forget about the varying views and opinions from county to county. What about within the counties. I'm not 100% sure about other counties but Orange County has quite a few judges that preside over PP approvals. Some grant unrestricted CC right out of the gate. Others won't issue unrestricted for a certain period of time till the permit holder 'proves' their worthiness

In other words the local magistrates don't all agree on the process. How would this affect the county clerks position regarding revoking and confiscating?

I can't chance not complying. I was approved because I'm law abiding. That hasn't changed. This state and this gubernatorial edict sucks. There's nothing I can do about it other than comply at the very last minute. January 30th will be the postmark on my recert, mailed in with certified, return receipt requested.

My lame ass attempt as a protest submission.

 

[Jmac00]

I can't chance not complying. I was approved because I'm law abiding. That hasn't changed. This state and this gubernatorial edict sucks. There's nothing I can do about it other than comply at the very last minute. January 30th will be the postmark on my recert, mailed in with certified, return receipt requested.

My lame ass attempt as a protest submission.

a buddy of mine called last Sunday, he asked when I was going to send mine in. I said in about a week and I was sending it snail mail, registered return receipt. I said "It ain't my job to make their lives easier, they want me to recert, fine. I don't trust electronic stuff, I have sent too many proposals by email that got dropped or didn't get to the required person because of one electronic boogieman or another, so it's going by good old fashion United States Postal Service mail that I can track. if it doesn't get there, it ain't my fault. I did my "due diligence" and I can deal with it later"

 

[Jmac00]

Gee, they made me get a tatoo!
View attachment 23383
Robin Cain

WTH kind of tattoo is that? is that part of a larger one? LOL, I don't get it???

 

[Marine Cpl]

Oh wow! I wonder if this will turnout similar to the AW registration?

Totally different. Here they know you have pistols. They didn't know you had rifles. Apples and oranges.

 

[masterswimmer]

FYI, I'll also probably video myself holding the completed application, stuffing the addressed envelope, sealing it, affixing the return receipt, and handing it to the postal clerk.

Not paranoid much but don't want Monkeyface's minions to say I stuffed blank paper into a return receipt envelope and claimed I recertified when they say I didn't.

 

[Robin]

WTH kind of tattoo is that? is that part of a larger one? LOL, I don't get it???

Mark of Cain[edit]
The Hebrew word for mark ('Oth, אות‬) could mean a sign, an omen, a warning, or a remembrance.[10] The mark of Cain is God's promise to offer Cain divine protection from premature death with the stated purpose of preventing anyone from killing him. It is not known what the mark was, but it is assumed that the mark was visible.[11] Some have speculated that the mark was a Hebrew letter placed on either the face or the arm.[12] The Septuagint translates the mark as a "sign". Thus, it is speculated that the mark served as a sign to others not to commit the same offense.[13]

There is also uncertainty as to why Cain should have feared being killed, since the Book of Genesis does not indicate that there were any human beings then alive other than his parents, Adam and Eve.

 

[livingston]

Another problem is consistency. Forget about the varying views and opinions from county to county. What about within the counties. I'm not 100% sure about other counties but Orange County has quite a few judges that preside over PP approvals. Some grant unrestricted CC right out of the gate. Others won't issue unrestricted for a certain period of time till the permit holder 'proves' their worthiness

In other words the local magistrates don't all agree on the process. How would this affect the county clerks position regarding revoking and confiscating?

I can't chance not complying. I was approved because I'm law abiding. That hasn't changed. This state and this gubernatorial edict sucks. There's nothing I can do about it other than comply at the very last minute. January 30th will be the postmark on my recert, mailed in with certified, return receipt requested.

My lame ass attempt as a protest submission.

I don't believe the clerks have anything to do with this process (except paperwork ). Perhaps invalidate your permit. .. after the judge cancels the permit. This will how it will come down ...
Buffalo man's pistol permit wrongly suspended under the state Safe Act
Buffalo man's pistol permit wrongly suspended under the state Safe Act
Syracuse, N.Y. -- An Erie County man whose pistol permit was wrongly suspended under the state's new gun control law is getting his handguns back.

David Lewis of Amherst, a 35-year-old college librarian, was told last week by the Erie County Clerk's Office to surrender his seven handguns he uses for target shooting because his pistol permit had been suspended under the mental health provisions of the New York Safe Act. Under that law, mental health professionals are required to report patients they believe could harm themselves or others. That information can be used to determine if the patient has a gun license and, if so, to revoke or suspend the license and take away the patient's firearms.

It turns out authorities went after the wrong pistol permit holder.

A state Supreme Court Judge William Boller ruled today Lewis can have his permit reinstated and get his guns back, according to the Buffalo News.

A form letter will be sent out rubber stamped by your local judge telling you have X number of days to surrender all your firearms . Will a judge protest this ... NO .. It is a law going forward . And the liberal anti gun judges in this state will orgasm with the stamp of every paper ....

 

[Marine Cpl]

a buddy of mine called last Sunday, he asked when I was going to send mine in. I said in about a week and I was sending it snail mail, registered return receipt. I said "It ain't my job to make their lives easier, they want me to recert, fine. I don't trust electronic stuff, I have sent too many proposals by email that got dropped or didn't get to the required person because of one electronic boogieman or another, so it's going by good old fashion United States Postal Service mail that I can track. if it doesn't get there, it ain't my fault. I did my "due diligence" and I can deal with it later"

You get a confirmation number online if it goes through that you can print out. You don't get a confirmation by snail mail. Even a signed return receipt means nothing. They can claim you sent them an empty envelope.

I was going to do the whole manual thing too (I think it was my idea. I was the first to post about the idea a while back in the very first thread.) but decided against it. Everyone I know that I told to do snail mail, went online out of convenience and for the confirmation number.

There just aren't many people doing it to make a difference so I made it easier on myself as well. To inconvenience them, you need millions. There aren't going to be millions.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

The added push back from the counties, that doesn't mean shit. What about when something like 52 out of the 62 counties all passed resolutions against the safe act weeks after it was passed? Or even all the cities and towns that did the same thing. Oh boy that really showed New York State whose boss (here we are 5 years later)

Two different things. The county legislatures have nothing to do with the pistol permits. I'm talking about clerks and judges pushing back. These are the people who handle the day to day with permits. It's the judge who revokes. What I'm talking about is what happens if because of all the confusion as well as how poorly the thing was written and implemented, judges and clerks refuse to revoke the licenses of people who, for one reason or the other didn't recert? I'm not saying don't recert, just a what if at the county clerk/judge level, the whole thing gets stalled. Are the state police going to then take it upon themselves to go around to all the people they wanted revoked and confiscate? All while they are still technically legal because the person with the authority to grant and revoke licenses won't revoke peoples permits?

 

[Jmac00]

You get a confirmation number online if it goes through that you can print out. You don't get a confirmation by snail mail. Even a signed return receipt means nothing. They can claim you sent them an empty envelope.

I was going to do the whole manual thing too (I think it was my idea. I was the first to post about the idea a while back in the very first thread.) but decided against it. Everyone I know that I told to do snail mail, went online out of convenience and for the confirmation number.

There just aren't many people doing it to make a difference so I made it easier on myself as well. To inconvenience them, you need millions. There aren't going to be millions.

good point, well I got time. Im in no hurry to get this done. I'll give it another week or so, by then they may extend the deadline by a month or two. Who knows?

 

[ArmedCorgi]

Totally different. Here they know you have pistols. They didn't know you had rifles. Apples and oranges.

I know that. I was just referring to the numbers.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Two different things. The county legislatures have nothing to do with the pistol permits. I'm talking about clerks and judges pushing back. These are the people who handle the day to day with permits. It's the judge who revokes. What I'm talking about is what happens if because of all the confusion as well as how poorly the thing was written and implemented, judges and clerks refuse to revoke the licenses of people who, for one reason or the other didn't recert? I'm not saying don't recert, just a what if at the county clerk/judge level, the whole thing gets stalled. Are the state police going to then take it upon themselves to go around to all the people they wanted revoked and confiscate? All while they are still technically legal because the person with the authority to grant and revoke licenses won't revoke peoples permits?

You mean the county clearks and judges who take 16 months to approve or deny, or refuse to issue anything other than a restricted license, or no license at all, or do some made up shit of having to approve every amendment someone adds to their license and in turn takes weeks if not months to do for each one. Yeah pretty sure they don' give a fuck.

And pretty sure if they plan to enforce this more they will be using the NYSP who have proven time and time again they will do Cuomo bidding on the safe act

 

[Fezzik]

The added push back from the counties, that doesn't mean shit. What about when something like 52 out of the 62 counties all passed resolutions against the safe act weeks after it was passed? Or even all the cities and towns that did the same thing. Oh boy that really showed New York State whose boss (here we are 5 years later)

Don't get me wrong, I don't expect much either but the counties, cities, and towns telling the state that they do not approve of NYSAFE is one thing. In this case, we have counties acknowledging that only a fraction of their permit holders have submitted and we are are at the eleventh hour. It's pretty clear that the directive given five years ago cannot be delivered on.

 

[Marine Cpl]

How do the counties even know who recertified? My country doesn't know I did.

 

[Edwardteach72]

How do the counties even know who recertified? My country doesn't know I did.

They dont

 

[VietnamEraVet]

I'd hate to be the test case, but I really do hope this blows up on NYS and the Princess big time. What would be something, is if the purple ties decide to go afield and start banging on doors to confiscate guns from some older permit holders. Especially if the shit really does hit the fan.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

You mean the county clearks and judges who take 16 months to approve or deny, or refuse to issue anything other than a restricted license, or no license at all, or do some made up shit of having to approve every amendment someone adds to their license and in turn takes weeks if not months to do for each one. Yeah pretty sure they don' give a fuck.

And pretty sure if they plan to enforce this more they will be using the NYSP who have proven time and time again they will do Cuomo bidding on the safe act

Yes those guys. If they don't give a fuck, then why is this whole thing news?

 

[ArmedCorgi]

And I'd add that while they may not give a fuck about us peons, I'm pretty sure they don't like the state forcing poorly planned crap like this onto their plates. Especially when all of this was originally the counties domain.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

BTW @Edwardteach72 I agree with you. Most likely the clerks and judges will do as asked and we know the state is gonna find a way to get you and fuck you. I'm just posing a hypothetical question of what happens if you have the whole thing or at least a sizable number of clerks and judges not complying and the states attempt gets retarded?

 

[Edwardteach72]

BTW @Edwardteach72 I agree with you. Most likely the clerks and judges will do as asked and we know the state is gonna find a way to get you and fuck you. I'm just posing a hypothetical question of what happens if you have the whole thing or at least a sizable number of clerks and judges not complying and the states attempt gets retarded?

They are not the ones who need to comply it's the permit holderd

 

[Deplorable Me]

Don't forget everyone, don't recertify and remember some gun forum lawyer told you that not to worry you won't have all your guns confiscated and possibly face felony charges it' all just a bluff by the state (Oh and that gun forum guy who tells you that probably sent his paperwork in weeks if not months ago. Also I am not the person sayin this, but seems to be a bunch of no lawyer gun forum lawyers on here giving that advice)

Those are actually trigger happy NYSP trolls loading up their SWAT magazines looking to smoke a few dogs and thin out a few old men.