NY's Vindictive Plans for carry - special session next week to respond to SCOTUS's ruling. (Merged)

[4WHLDRFTN]

All of this garbage is UN Constitutional. All of it! They do not have the authority at all to tell us when and how much of our rights are allowed. Their job is to protect our rights! not to determine what they believe we should have as "rights". Stop complying period!! Quit being a slave. "We the People" are the Boss. That's the way the Constitution was written. I am not their property nor do I have a contract with them stating I agree with their edicts. Offer, Declined!!

Egg Fucking Zakly

 

[Acer-m14]

There is that pesky little thing of "Probable Cause" and it's pretty strongly defined when it comes to vehicles and traffic stops.

if you get pulled over for a tail light and they see a box .. ohhh no .. issue is they can't prolong the stop and wait 30 minutes for a search warrant or the drug dogs on a hunch or you saying NO ..

So just Say .. NO .. i don't consent to a search and shut up and let your lawyer handle the rest ..

 

[Rap]

Where we are headed unless we stop Hochul and her ilk in their tracks:

Meet The Canadian Who’s Now Being Prosecuted For Self-Defense

A Canadian man defended himself during a home invasion, and now he’s being prosecuted for doing so. The incident occurred on July 12th when a home in Nova Scotia was broken into by three men, all of whom were armed. Along with the help of another man in the residence, Kyle Earl Munroe was able ...

www.dailywire.com

 

[Truebeliever]

if you get pulled over for a tail light and they see a box .. ohhh no .. issue is they can't prolong the stop and wait 30 minutes for a search warrant or the drug dogs on a hunch or you saying NO ..

So just Say .. NO .. i don't consent to a search and shut up and let your lawyer handle the rest ..

Okay, let’s go thru a fact pattern. A person get pulled over for a traffic violation. The cop sees a lock box associated with pistols. A computer check reveals that the person has a an order of protection against them. The person refuses to talk or tell what’s in the box. The cop has probable cause for the box. He can seize the box and get a search warrant.

 

[ECU Pirates]

Okay, let’s go thru a fact pattern. A person get pulled over for a traffic violation. The cop sees a lock box associated with pistols. A computer check reveals that the person has a an order of protection against them. The person refuses to talk or tell what’s in the box. The cop has probable cause for the box. He can seize the box and get a search warrant.

And if this person didn’t have an order of protection against them?

 

[Acer-m14]

The person refuses to talk or tell what’s in the box.

yep .. shut up .. you no need to talk to aid in there investigation ..

what if the Glock pistol case i bought at the gun show . only has cookies in it in the car ....

Aussy Tim Tams are yummy and i have to hide from my friends now lol

 

[spat]

Okay, let’s go thru a fact pattern. A person get pulled over for a traffic violation. The cop sees a lock box associated with pistols. A computer check reveals that the person has a an order of protection against them. The person refuses to talk or tell what’s in the box. The cop has probable cause for the box. He can seize the box and get a search warrant.

"Box associated with pistols"

That is the bullshit right there.

A glock logo is not probable cause that the box contains a pistol.

Certainly not a generic pistol safe.

You guys have stretched reasonable suspicion and probable cause far beyond anything actually reasonable.

 

[Acer-m14]

wish she had a pistol in hand and not a locked box .. persay @Truebeliever

A computer check reveals that the person has a an order of protection against them.

N.J. gun association calls Berlin woman's death an 'absolute outrage'

When Carol Bowne was fatally stabbed by an ex-boyfriend late Wednesday night just outside her Berlin home, she had been waiting since mid April. Although she had filed a restraining order against suspect Michael Eitel, 45, the man attacked her shortly after 10 p.m. upon Bowne's arrival at her...

www.nj.com

 

[Truebeliever]

And if this person didn’t have an order of protection against them?

The answer is what are the other factors in the fact pattern. What if the person stopped was traveling at 2 in the morning when gun ranges are closed and they don’t present a permit?
It’s not a simple yes or no.

 

[Truebeliever]

wish she had a pistol in hand and not a locked box .. persay @Truebeliever

A computer check reveals that the person has a an order of protection against them.

N.J. gun association calls Berlin woman's death an 'absolute outrage'

When Carol Bowne was fatally stabbed by an ex-boyfriend late Wednesday night just outside her Berlin home, she had been waiting since mid April. Although she had filed a restraining order against suspect Michael Eitel, 45, the man attacked her shortly after 10 p.m. upon Bowne's arrival at her...

www.nj.com

I’m just explaining search and seizure.

 

[Acer-m14]

The answer is what are the other factors in the fact pattern. What if the person stopped was traveling at 2 in the morning when gun ranges are closed and they don’t present a permit?
It’s not a simple yes or no.

im out hunting yotes at 2AM .. not people ..

 

[Acer-m14]

I’m just explaining search and seizure.

And the simple answers is ,, i do not consent to search .. and i don't answer questions .. ask my lawyer

 

[Truebeliever]

"Box associated with pistols"

That is the bullshit right there.

A glock logo is not probable cause that the box contains a pistol.

Certainly not a generic pistol safe.

You guys have stretched reasonable suspicion and probable cause far beyond anything actually reasonable.

Nope. Don’t let principals get in the way of reality.
If I saw a certain Fanny pack on someone, I know it’s used as a holster. It’s more probable than not that a gun is in there. Probable cause is not the high standard you think it is. It’s 51% that is more probable than not, there is a gun is in there.

 

[Truebeliever]

And the simple answers is ,, i do not consent to search .. and i don't answer questions .. ask my lawyer

Fine. And if they take the case, verbally object to it but they might be within their power to do so.

 

[Acer-m14]

Nope. Don’t let principals get in the way of reality.
If I saw a certain Fanny pack on someone, I know it’s used as a holster. It’s more probable than not that a gun is in there. Probable cause is not the high standard you think it is. It’s 51% that is more probable than not, there is a gun is in there.

the new and improved .. Fleece hoodie holster for guns ..

Stillwater Sherpa Fleece Hoodie

<h4>Fabric</h4><p> · 70% polyester, 30% recycled polyester<br /> <br /> </p><h4>Features</h4><p> · Soft Sherpa fleece hoodie<br /> · Stretch for comfort and mobility<br /> · Moisture-wicking and quick-drying<br /> · Adjustable draw-cored<br /> · Side pockets<br /> · Locker loop in the back...

www.vineyardvines.com

 

[spat]

Nope. Don’t let principals get in the way of reality.
If I saw a certain Fanny pack on someone, I know it’s used as a holster. It’s more probable than not that a gun is in there. Probable cause is not the high standard you think it is. It’s 51% that is more probable than not, there is a gun is in there.

And how is that metric tracked ? You have any data to suggest that certain boxes in the possession of prohibited persons contain guns more than half the time ?

Or is it like that one sheriff who insisted his guys training was more accurate than blood tests in identifying people under the influence ?

“When you brought up that you had a clean blood test when complaining to Internal Affairs, their answer was what?” Keefe asked.

“They said, ‘Yeah, we see this happen all the time. Um, the test results come back wrong all the time,'” she said.

Magical Cop Detects Drugs Better Than Blood Tests; Continues To Lock Innocent People Up

In court filings, testimony, and warrant affidavits, law enforcement officers refer constantly to their “training and expertise.” Given enough time on the job and enough laser-printed c…

www.techdirt.com

 

[Acer-m14]

And how is that metric tracked ? You have any data to suggest that certain boxes in the possession of prohibited persons contain guns more than half the time ?

Or is it like that one sheriff who insisted his guys training was more accurate than blood tests in identifying people under the influence ?

Magical Cop Detects Drugs Better Than Blood Tests; Continues To Lock Innocent People Up

In court filings, testimony, and warrant affidavits, law enforcement officers refer constantly to their “training and expertise.” Given enough time on the job and enough laser-printed c…

www.techdirt.com

no data needed .. ask the NY governor lol

Kathy Hochul says she doesn’t need proof that gun control keeps anyone safe - Washington Examiner

Video EmbedNew York Gov. Kathy Hochul declared that she didn’t need any statistics to justify preventing people who qualify from acquiring concealed carry permits. Of course, she says that because she doesn’t have any statistics. In fact, the statistics show the opposite.Hochul is

www.washingtonexaminer.com

 

[ECU Pirates]

The answer is what are the other factors in the fact pattern. What if the person stopped was traveling at 2 in the morning when gun ranges are closed and they don’t present a permit?
It’s not a simple yes or no.

Ranges don’t close here. We have access to indoor gun clubs 24/7 playa

 

[ECU Pirates]

The 5th should be evoked whenever you have any doubt. If any cop wants to do anything stfu and call a lawyer if needed. It’s that simple. These Leo’s aren’t your friends. They might not be an enemy, but they aren’t friends.

 

[Truebeliever]

And how is that metric tracked ? You have any data to suggest that certain boxes in the possession of prohibited persons contain guns more than half the time ?

Or is it like that one sheriff who insisted his guys training was more accurate than blood tests in identifying people under the influence ?

“When you brought up that you had a clean blood test when complaining to Internal Affairs, their answer was what?” Keefe asked.

“They said, ‘Yeah, we see this happen all the time. Um, the test results come back wrong all the time,'” she said.

Magical Cop Detects Drugs Better Than Blood Tests; Continues To Lock Innocent People Up

In court filings, testimony, and warrant affidavits, law enforcement officers refer constantly to their “training and expertise.” Given enough time on the job and enough laser-printed c…

www.techdirt.com

So if the officer sees an Springfield XD plastic box with a lock on it, it’s not probable that there is a gun in it? Get real.

 

[Truebeliever]

The 5th should be evoked whenever you have any doubt. If any cop wants to do anything stfu and call a lawyer if needed. It’s that simple. These Leo’s aren’t your friends. They might not be an enemy, but they aren’t friends.

It depends on what happened. Two people get into altercation with injuries.The police show up. One person decides to remain silent, the other person tells his side and how the other guy started it. Who do you think the police are going to arrest even if the guy who is talking actually started it. One goes to jail, has a court case and the other is seen as the victim.
That’s just one example.

 

[Acer-m14]

So if the officer sees an Springfield XD plastic box with a lock on it, it’s not probable that there is a gun in it? Get real.

LMAO ..

https://www.amazon.com/LOCKDOWN-Silicone-Multiple-Breathable-Rust-Preventing/dp/B07L1NQ8FT

my O/U skeet gun is sleeping shhh .. in a sock lol

 

[Truebeliever]

Ranges don’t close here. We have access to indoor gun clubs 24/7 playa

It’s about circumstances and the totality of them.
Let’s change it up. The driver stopped have an out of state license. The place of the car stop is far away from any interstate travel ways. There is a locked XD box with a lock on it( box that comes with the gun.
It’s probable cause that there is a gun in the box.

 

[spat]

So if the officer sees an Springfield XD plastic box with a lock on it, it’s not probable that there is a gun in it? Get real.

You have any data to show that it is ?

I have lots of gun boxes. Glock, springfield, FN, all sorts. Almost none of them don't have any guns in them (the guns are in the safe).

Sorry, there are just too many dishonest and incompetent cops out there for us to just let you "trust your gut" anymore.


I think every officer should have to fill out paperwork every single time they exercise any search requiring probable cause *before* they conduct the search.

Then they should analyze that paperwork and any officer who doesn't find exactly the thing they said they were looking for at least 50% of the time is deemed to no longer be able to recognize probable cause, and will need to get another officer to sign off before any such searches until they manage to get their accuracy back over 50%.

If you want to use "the smell of Marijuana" as an excuse to search a car, you damn well better be able to prove you can identify that smell accurately in the real world.

Goes for everything similar.

 

[Truebeliever]

LMAO ..

https://www.amazon.com/LOCKDOWN-Silicone-Multiple-Breathable-Rust-Preventing/dp/B07L1NQ8FT

my O/U skeet gun is sleeping shhh .. in a sock lol

That’s not a locked container . No search warrant required.

 

[spat]

It’s about circumstances and the totality of them.
Let’s change it up. The driver stopped have an out of state license. The place of the car stop is far away from any interstate travel ways. There is a locked XD box with a lock on it( box that comes with the gun.
It’s probable cause that there is a gun in the box.

Is it probable ?

What evidence do you have that people in those circumstances are more likely to have an illegal gun than an empty box ?

 

[Truebeliever]

You have any data to show that it is ?

I have lots of gun boxes. Glock, springfield, FN, all sorts. Almost none of them don't have any guns in them (the guns are in the safe).

Sorry, there are just too many dishonest and incompetent cops out there for us to just let you "trust your gut" anymore.


I think every officer should have to fill out paperwork every single time they exercise any search requiring probable cause *before* they conduct the search.

Then they should analyze that paperwork and any officer who doesn't find exactly the thing they said they were looking for at least 50% of the time is deemed to no longer be able to recognize probable cause, and will need to get another officer to sign off before any such searches until they manage to get their accuracy back over 50%.

If you want to use "the smell of Marijuana" as an excuse to search a car, you damn well better be able to prove you can identify that smell accurately in the real world.

Goes for everything similar.

The “ trust the gut” of a reasonable person with his experience and training is the standard .

 

[Acer-m14]

It’s about circumstances and the totality of them.
Let’s change it up. The driver stopped have an out of state license. The place of the car stop is far away from any interstate travel ways. There is a locked XD box with a lock on it( box that comes with the gun.
It’s probable cause that there is a gun in the box.

the gun is in a fkin box .. so WHAT DID IT DO ??

JUMP OUT OUT AND SHOOT THE TOWN UP ??

 

[spat]

That’s not a locked container . No search warrant required.

Are you claiming that such a container in plain view would justify a search of the car for a gun ?

 

[Truebeliever]

the gun is in a fkin box .. so WHAT DID IT DO ??

JUMP OUT OUT AND SHOOT THE TOWN UP ??

I am explaining search and seizure. You can disagree with the law of what would be found but it doesn’t change what I am telling you