Truebeliever
6.5 Creedmoor
Yep. It would . And it would allow the officer to seize the box to get a warrant to open it.
NY's Vindictive Plans for carry - special session next week to respond to SCOTUS's ruling. (Merged)
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spat
.700 Nitro Express
We shouldn't accept that.
Too many people with faulty guts. Like the department I linked above.
Guys who think they're infallible at identifying impaired people, because they have a 100% accuracy rating, because they define everyone they identify as guilty.
The circular reasoning is blatant.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Truebeliever
6.5 Creedmoor
It was changed. At one time, the police didn’t need a warrant at all
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Based on the reasoning that most people with a gun case are in illegal possession of one?
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Not changed enough.
Truebeliever
6.5 Creedmoor
Faulty gut? That’s why the officer has to explain it in court later. If he didn’t have probable cause, the evidence would be suppressed and case dismissed.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
Jail for a night or two isn’t a big deal. I will shut up and let a lawyer handle it. Silence won’t ever hurt you long term.
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
some need to watch this video .. and get some perspective 1:38 mark
spat
.700 Nitro Express
And the poor guy who got dragged through all this, not so much as a "sorry for wasting your time" ?
If they get their warrant and open the case and find it filled with grandma's cookies, the department should have to compensate the poor guy for his time.
"If he'd just waived his rights he would have been on his way" is *not* an excuse. *Nobody* should have to waive their rights just to go about their day.
Look, the visible gun case example we started with is a non issue in nearly the entire rest of the country. There's no excuse to even care in NY.
You guys should be ashamed of yourselves for even attempting to enforce NY's BS.
Truebeliever
6.5 Creedmoor
Not really. You might have a court case where the other party doesn’t.
You ever look wonder why people go to jail or prison despite an alibi? You stay silent. Proof of your alibi might be disappearing as you remain silent such as security cam footage. The cops don’t know your alibi because you chose to be silent.
To talk or not , depends on the circumstances of the case.
Truebeliever
6.5 Creedmoor
Not really. Was the item in the box? Was it illegal?
Then the cop reasoning was correct.
There are a lot of factors involved.
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
yep legal base ball bat .. where is the barbed wire ..
lol
lol
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
You were most likely taught silence equals guilt. I was taught silence equals smart. I will take the lawyer route every time. At least they passed the bar. There are a ton of shit lawyers but I will take their advice over that of a cop every time. Shutting your mouth is never a bad move.
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
Mirada rights .. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law
Shut up
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Only if the illegal thing in the box was the illegal thing the cop thought was in the box.
If he says it's an illegal gun in there and opens it up to find meth, then his reasoning was faulty.
But, lets say the box is empty.
So, the poor guy doing nothing wrong got jerked around for probably hours, and doesn't get so much as a sorry for wasting your time.
Guy should get paid for his time.
And yep, that means a whole bunch of people are going to go out fishing for a paycheck doing that.
But I bet it makes the cops get a whole lot better at deciding what's really probable cause and what isn't.
I think you guys call that a sting operation or something ?
Truebeliever
6.5 Creedmoor
Silence doesn’t equal guilt but if only one side is talking or the person isn’t saying what their alibi is, then that’s on them.
Think about it. If you are arrested for murder and you know that you were not there, and know you passed by a video surveillance camera at the time, you might want to speak up especially in the old days with the old VCR recordings. The tape might be overwritten by the time you get to talk to a lawyer. Witnesses forgot things or can’t be sure of the time as the event gets older and older in their mind. The bartender who served you a drink on the other side of town at the time of the murder might not remember what time he saw you just 2 or 3 days later.
But the choice is yours.
A lot of lawyers don’t know as much as they think they do. Usually they get guilty guys off, not innocent ones.
It’s what you say that is important.
If you shot someone in self defense after he tried to rob you, you might say— he dropped his gun over there.
And silence has been used against people— depraved indifference. Failure to call an ambulance or other medical help charges have been brought against people for “ remaining silent “
Truebeliever
6.5 Creedmoor
The probable cause will be decided on by a judge. I’m telling you how it works . You don’t have to agree with it.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
I'm not disputing that that's how it works.
I think we can all agree that what we have now doesn't work very well at all.
I think the people should absolutely demand we change how it works.
Truebeliever
6.5 Creedmoor
How would you get evidence? Use an example that you aren’t emotionally attached to.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
By establishing first that a crime was committed and not randomly searching for evidence in the hope you find a crime ?
If you have to go hunting for it, it probably shouldn't be a crime to begin with.
And if you took some of the guys that spend all day pulling people over for broken tail lights as an excuse to look for something more, and you put them on looking for real evidence for real crimes, maybe 50% of the murders in this country wouldn't go unsolved.
Maybe I'm crazy, but I really hope you guys have a better strategy than just blindly searching everyone you can get a vague justification for in the hope that you stumble on evidence of a serious crime.
Truebeliever
6.5 Creedmoor
How do you think most crimes get solved? Proactive policing. Joel Ritkin,Tim McVey etc etc.
Truebeliever
6.5 Creedmoor
You are crazy if you think that works. It is that cop who is proactive that solves cases. It just is. It is the small things that lead to the bigger things.
The theory of having the police concentrate on the bigger things style of policing has been a failure every time that is tried.
And it’s not blindly searching. It’s a articulable suspicion that has to rise to the level of probable cause to search the car.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
If you pull over a 100 guys for a tail light and hope to find a murderer or terrorist in the bunch, then that's blindly searching.
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spat
.700 Nitro Express
News flash.
The vast majority of "cases" go unsolved. They just do.
The very bedrock of our country is based on the notion that you don't get to go fishing. You can only search someone when you believe they have committed a crime.
Creating myriad tiny bullshit infractions to justify searches for bigger crimes is diametrically opposed to that notion.
IDGAF how effective that tactic is, it's wrong.
And I believe in the long term it's counterproductive.
You know why people "didn see nuffin" when you question them in many neighborhoods? Because they don't trust you, because of that bullshit. They are more afraid of you guys than they are the criminals. I'm not even sure that's misplaced anymore.
Sure, those tactics can be beneficial in the short term, but you are burning the respect you *need* to do your job in the long term.
It's going to be a long hard road back to when people taught their kids to trust the police instead of "don't say anything without a lawyer".
You guys lost the inner city a long time ago. The suburbs aren't too far from that now.
That's why you have to treat the inner cities like you're an occupying force, and not public servants. Want to get there in the suburbs too ? You're well on your way. Just keep hammering on whatever minor bullshit the legislature sends down.
Beerman
6.5 Creedmoor
Does a Yeti cooler contain a an actual Yeti?
I know plenty of people with gun branded junk that don't own guns
4WHLDRFTN
.308 Win
just like barstool bikers
Clone this man a thousand times over.