NY's Vindictive Plans for carry - special session next week to respond to SCOTUS's ruling. (Merged)

[Saltwater60]

Just submitted my amendment for full carry at the County Clerk's office. The guy there told me that the wait time was 3 to 6......... months!!! I was like what tha hell! Why? He said that's what the New York state police told them.
View attachment 165094

What does the NYSP have to do with it? That’s A bit concerning.

 

[4WHLDRFTN]

30.06 ammo box

 

[BerettaGuy]

Back to the topic at hand.
Here is what the Democrat Party and their progressive elites have in mind for gun owners in New York.

Watch closely as this guy, who has been robbed many times is now charged with "murder".
Remember, the 10 commandments did not say, "Thou shalt not kill". It said Thou shall not murder.
This is not murder.


The Democrats are shouting that these new laws are to keep them safe!
They aren't talking to you and I. They are talking to their base.
Ef their base!
Watch one of their base get stabbed for being a bully.

 

[Blackjack]

Back to the topic at hand.
Here is what the Democrat Party and their progressive elites have in mind for gun owners in New York.

Watch closely as this guy, who has been robbed many times is now charged with "murder".
Remember, the 10 commandments did not say, "Thou shalt not kill". It said Thou shall not murder.
This is not murder.


The Democrats are shouting that these new laws are to keep them safe!
They aren't talking to you and I. They are talking to their base.
Ef their base!
Watch one of their base get stabbed for being a bully.

Well yeah they can’t arrest anyone for marijuana anymore. Plus bail reform and liberal DA’s send all the criminals right back to the streets.

Someone has to go to jail in your clown world.

 

[BerettaGuy]

Marching orders?
The new normal?
Tactics that "we" should be considering?
Or: Just do nothing and let them make illegal laws without consequence.
Asking for a friend.

Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh Forced to Escape DC Steakhouse Through Back Due to Protestors

Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh exited a Washington, D.C., steakhouse this week through the back door due to protesters, reported Politico.

www.mediaite.com

 

[4WHLDRFTN]

Just do nothing and let them make illegal laws without consequence.

thats how the gun folk roll

 

[Truebeliever]

In my day, the Ohaus Tripel Beam alone was not considered paraphernalia or probable cause. Now, throw in some loose green vegetative substance or traces of white powder, and boom, just like that, paraphernalia.

A pair of channel locks in your pocket is not burglar tools. You, being a convicted burglar with a pair of channel locks in your pocket, and boom now you are in possession of burglar tools.

A storage box that was designed to hold 50 caliber cartridges or other ammo, that is sold in stores hither and yon as a water-tight storage box is no indication of any other contraband and may be probable cause for a paranoid, Gen Z progressive woke gender-confused 30-something cop, educated by a progressive anti-America system of Government Unionized teachers and bureaucrats.

But the PC doctrine says it must raise suspicion of a "reasonable man". Even that today is effed up! Unless you are a reasonable biologist.

Clown world! Where your wife putting a small baggie of sugar in your lunch bag can get you arrested.

Again, it’s the totality of the circumstances. A scale of out of any other context would not be enough for probable cause for a search warrant .

 

[Truebeliever]

The problem is not that we don't arrest people fast enough.

The problem is that we let them right back out.

You can arrest them as fast as you want, but if they're right back out in 4 hours it does nothing but breed contempt for the law.

That's the problem with "broken windows". People are right back out, and your plan is just to keep arresting them faster because you can't keep them off the street.

That's like bailing water on the Titanic. The solution is not more hands or bigger buckets..

The solution is you don't let them back out unless you have a reasonable expectation they aren't going to be right back in.

I'd say something like every conviction is an automatic doubling of the sentence for every subsequent conviction.

Yep, that means a 24 hour "time served" turns into 3 years if it's #10 for you.


Don't need "broken windows" if you stop bussing criminals right back into the neighborhood.

The fact is that almost all "real" crime is committed by people who have already been convicted for something previously.

That means way fewer crimes, because the criminals are all behind bars. So you have way more man hours to devote to each "real" crime.

That means enough time to actually investigate everything. Imagine having the man power to bother dusting for prints for a stolen car stereo. Odds are that guy is already on file, and now you have a name and address.

You wouldn't need to go fishing and hope you catch some guy with some meth in an ammo can and a broken tail light and a trunk full of stolen radios.

It's a much better solution.

A justice system only works when people realize they will probably not get away with a crime.

What we have now is most criminals figure they will almost certainly get away with it. You only catch them because they roll the dice over and over amd over till they eventuslly lose.

How do you think those people got caught bin the first place? It wasn’t “wait until someone calls you “methodologies .
Secondly, we can agree that bail reform , and criminal justice reform by the liberals is a failure but it’s not the police departments that failed but the politicians.
Crime was dramatically down until the Fugerson effect and the “ criminal justice reforms”.

 

[Beerman]

How do you think those people got caught bin the first place? It wasn’t “wait until someone calls you “methodologies .
Secondly, we can agree that bail reform , and criminal justice reform by the liberals is a failure but it’s not the police departments that failed but the politicians.
Crime was dramatically down until the Fugerson effect and the “ criminal justice reforms”.

Maybe it’s time for SuperCop to use his super perceptive probable cause-o-meter yo start arresting thugs for things that don’t qualify for cashless bail. Wink, wink.

 

[Truebeliever]

Maybe it’s time for SuperCop to use his super perceptive probable cause-o-meter yo start arresting thugs for things that don’t qualify for cashless bail. Wink, wink.

It’s not my meter. I’m telling you what is search and seizure standards.

My arrest record was pretty good. Better than most. And I did not like giving out tickets to working people — so taillights or lack of insurance card( they could mail it in) was about the only ones I would give out even if another violation was the reason for the stop . A lot of warnings to get one ticket .
Go tell me what’s not on cashless bail list. The answer is not much.

 

[FRB]

Wrong… a person who is a prohibited person by law is found in possession of an 50 cal ammo can. That is a slam dunk for the warrant and will hold up in court because it has. Is it more probable than not that there is ammo in there.
And guess what? No ammo found. No charges . If it goes further there was contraband in the box.

jaja you are one of those kinds eh? refuse to give in no matter how many say you are wrong.

 

[Edwardteach72]

 

[Truebeliever]

jaja you are one of those kinds eh? refuse to give in no matter how many say you are wrong.

I refuse because I am right. Does anyone commenting have an experience in search and seazure? Have they ever done a search warrant or even made an arrest. And if they have made an arrest, have they made a pick up arrest on a car stop ?
They don’t know what they are talking about.

 

[FRB]

I refuse because I am right. Does anyone commenting have an experience in search and seazure? Have they ever done a search warrant or even made an arrest. And if they have made an arrest, have they made a pick up arrest on a car stop ?
They don’t know what they are talking about

I have had enough experience in my life to say just because you have experience in said it does not mean you understand said! Even if declared an expert on it. Many an expert is anything but that. Especially those declaring it themselves.

I would not even need a lawyer to get it thrown out if it was the sole reason for PB. I have represented myself several times to victory, once in federal Court.

 

[Truebeliever]

I have had enough experience in my life to say just because you have experience in said it does not mean you understand said! Even if declared an expert on it. Many an expert is anything but that. Especially those declaring it themselves.

I would not even need a lawyer to get it thrown out if it was the sole reason for PB. I have represented myself several times to victory, once in federal Court.

You have represented yourself in federal court as a criminal defendant?
Many lawyers who don’t have experience in search and sezuire get it wrong .

And an ammo box in possession of someone who can’t be in possession of ammo is probable cause for a search warrant of that box. We are talking a car stop where the box is found. The warrant narrowly focused to the box would be granted. And I have also had dealings with lawyers who thought they knew better than I did in this area . They were proven wrong time and again. This is a slam dunk.
If the person was not known to be a prohibited person, you would be right. If the box was just a green box. You would be right but the box is an ammo box and the contraband sought is ammo. Not drugs. Ammo.

 

[8w7]

I refuse because I am right. Does anyone commenting have an experience in search and seazure? Have they ever done a search warrant or even made an arrest. And if they have made an arrest, have they made a pick up arrest on a car stop ?
They don’t know what they are talking about.

I’ve been quiet because I’m new here but I’m not sure what anything you’ve been saying has to do with the OP regarding NY’s Vindictive Plans for carry.

We get it. The courts have allowed the law to get away with searching ammo cans due to whatever mental gymnastics they used to get there to get reasonable articulable suspicion. You are right on that fact. What you don’t seem to be getting is that most here do not agree with it just the same as they do not agree with other unconstitutional laws that the courts here in NY have allowed to pass muster. Just because a court allows something that doesn’t make it right.

So yes. They are currently allowed. And yes. We know that they aren’t constitutional despite what a judge that has his hand in the far left’s cookie jar says.

Can we get back to the OP or will we continue focusing on ammo cans?

 

[Truebeliever]

I’ve been quiet because I’m new here but I’m not sure what anything you’ve been saying has to do with the OP regarding NY’s Vindictive Plans for carry.

We get it. The courts have allowed the law to get away with searching ammo cans due to whatever mental gymnastics they used to get there to get reasonable articulable suspicion. You are right on that fact. What you don’t seem to be getting is that most here do not agree with it just the same as they do not agree with other unconstitutional laws that the courts here in NY have allowed to pass muster. Just because a court allows something that doesn’t make it right.

So yes. They are currently allowed. And yes. We know that they aren’t constitutional despite what a judge that has his hand in the far left’s cookie jar says.

Can we get back to the OP or will we continue focusing on ammo cans?

It’s the totality of the circumstances. Any of those elements described are missing it would be a no go. Are any of the people reading this a prohibited person? I doubt it. Without that element with that fact pattern, it would be a no go. It’s a big element.

If a man decides to hang out on a bench at a playground and watching the kids play. Not a big deal. Not illegal ( possible local “must be escorted by a child “ laws aside) . Now add this element. The man is a convicted child molester. See how that changes everything. It’s the same with search and seizure. One element change can make all the difference one way or the other

 

[8w7]

It’s the totality of the circumstances. Any of those elements described are missing it would be a no go. Are any of the people reading this a prohibited person? I doubt it. Without that element with that fact pattern, it would be a no go. It’s a big element.

If a man decides to hang out on a bench at a playground and watching the kids play. Not a big deal. Not illegal ( possible local “must be escorted by a child “ laws aside) . Now add this element. The man is a convicted child molester. See how that changes everything. It’s the same with search and seizure. One element change can make all the difference one way or the other

Noted. In other news, here is a podcast from Cam and Co that talks about the NYSRPA plan of litigation.

 

[BerettaGuy]

Now, this I like! I would patronize businesses that hang these signs whether I needed their product or not.
In fact wouldn't it be a hoot to make up stickers and start leaving them where ever you go?

 

[Edwardteach72]

 

[4WHLDRFTN]

Maybe this will take out the unsafe act

 

[8w7]

Maybe this will take out the unsafe act

It might since Bruen says that intermediate scrutiny is a no go now. Off course a whole new case has to be brought up but currently they are focusing on concealed carry.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Maybe this will take out the unsafe act

The lawsuit that was filed today should take out the "awb" portion of the safe act.

There will be more lawsuits come Monday having to do with the new laws

 

[ManualF150]

Both the concealed carry and awb have significance in their own right. They are equally as important.

 

[Tisto]

I’ve been quiet because I’m new here but I’m not sure what anything you’ve been saying has to do with the OP regarding NY’s Vindictive Plans for carry.

We get it. The courts have allowed the law to get away with searching ammo cans due to whatever mental gymnastics they used to get there to get reasonable articulable suspicion. You are right on that fact. What you don’t seem to be getting is that most here do not agree with it just the same as they do not agree with other unconstitutional laws that the courts here in NY have allowed to pass muster. Just because a court allows something that doesn’t make it right.

So yes. They are currently allowed. And yes. We know that they aren’t constitutional despite what a judge that has his hand in the far left’s cookie jar says.

Can we get back to the OP or will we continue focusing on ammo cans?

Newbie,
Quite frequently a thread like this will get exhausted of the topic and then gets derailed to something else. It's normal.

What the TrueBeliever here doesn't understand is that he views EVERYTHING as a probable crime. Instead of PRESUMING INNOCENCE, as the constitution would require, he has been trained under the Us vs Them blue line bullshit. To him, everyone should be suspected until proven otherwise. Many of us here have been trying to point that out to him on our own way. It is, of course, futile. He will never look at anything the same way those of us grounded in the constitution do.

You are absolutely correct in that LEO's like him will do whatever mental gymnastics they have to in order to justify their actions. We have some good LEO's here. People that got into the profession for the right reason, and take their oath seriously. Unfortunately, we have some that got into the profession simply because they love the power.

 

[spat]

How do you think those people got caught bin the first place? It wasn’t “wait until someone calls you “methodologies .
Secondly, we can agree that bail reform , and criminal justice reform by the liberals is a failure but it’s not the police departments that failed but the politicians.
Crime was dramatically down until the Fugerson effect and the “ criminal justice reforms”.

I'm saying when 50% of the murderers never get caught, you shouldn't go looking for other bullshit.

If you're relying on broken taillights and ammo cans in the back seat to catch murderers and rapists, then maybe the left is correct and we just need to reboot the whole criminal justice system.

 

[Truebeliever]

I'm saying when 50% of the murderers never get caught, you shouldn't go looking for other bullshit.

If you're relying on broken taillights and ammo cans in the back seat to catch murderers and rapists, then maybe the left is correct and we just need to reboot the whole criminal justice system.

When did the unsolved murder rates go up recently? When police stopped enforcing the small stuff too. The same happened in the 1960s until the early 90s where the thought was let police concentrate on the big stuff. It has never worked. It’s enforcement of the small stuff that has led to solving crimes. Come on. We can name the famous cases . A parking ticket caught the Son of Sam. A taillight was Joel Ritkin, the Long Island serial killer. Someone picked up on something minor rats out the information that leads to the killer or other major criminal. Or that minor arrest comes back to haunt them. That happened to Pablo Escobar. It happens to a lot of the killers . How do think their fingerprints get into the system in the first place? And if their prints arent in the system yet, when the fingerprints from that minor arrest gets in the system , it will be compared to the prints from a murder scene.. Small stuff leads to the bigger stuff.
The reason why unsolved murders are now high is that police aren’t enforcing small stuff the way they used to just a few years ago.

 

[Acer-m14]

Back to the topic at hand.
Here is what the Democrat Party and their progressive elites have in mind for gun owners in New York.

Watch closely as this guy, who has been robbed many times is now charged with "murder".
Remember, the 10 commandments did not say, "Thou shalt not kill". It said Thou shall not murder.
This is not murder.


The Democrats are shouting that these new laws are to keep them safe!
They aren't talking to you and I. They are talking to their base.
Ef their base!
Watch one of their base get stabbed for being a bully.

i read that the dead guy has a pretty good rap sheet .. arrested like 8 times .. and did some jail time ..

 

[Beerman]

i read that the dead guy has a pretty good rap sheet .. arrested like 8 times .. and did some jail time ..

He was a state-owned asset. Think of all the cashless bail equity NYS had invested in him.

 

[spat]

When did the unsolved murder rates go up recently? When police stopped enforcing the small stuff too. The same happened in the 1960s until the early 90s where the thought was let police concentrate on the big stuff. It has never worked. It’s enforcement of the small stuff that has led to solving crimes. Come on. We can name the famous cases . A parking ticket caught the Son of Sam. A taillight was Joel Ritkin, the Long Island serial killer. Someone picked up on something minor rats out the information that leads to the killer or other major criminal. Or that minor arrest comes back to haunt them. That happened to Pablo Escobar. It happens to a lot of the killers . How do think their fingerprints get into the system in the first place? And if their prints arent in the system yet, when the fingerprints from that minor arrest gets in the system , it will be compared to the prints from a murder scene.. Small stuff leads to the bigger stuff.
The reason why unsolved murders are now high is that police aren’t enforcing small stuff the way they used to just a few years ago.

So, you're saying that our current system *does* just rely on blind luck and parking tickets to solve murders ?

And you seem to think that's a good thing ?

There are a lot more important things for policing than how often you get lucky...

The support for the broken windows seems to be "the more little bullshit we arrest people for, the more likely one of the arrested will have done something like really wrong"

IDGAF if your arrest rates get cut in half (so we go from 99% of crimes being unsolved to 99.5%). I'd rather have law enforcement that actually investigated and built cases rather than hoping the bad guy's tail light goes out sometime.


You talk about "the caught the Son of Sam because of a parking ticket" like that's a good thing. I would be utterly embarrassed by that if I was in LE. "We couldn't catch the most wanted man in the country until we got lucky he got caught up in our BS scheme that everyone in the country has gotten caught by at one time or another"

And you call that an example of "good policing" ?