Off-duty police officers banned from carrying firearms at New York State Fair

[Truebeliever]

Id be curious about the actual statistics comparing off duty/retired LEOS being assaulted( generic term for any type of physical attack) compared to non LEOs.

I could imagine that off duty / retired LEOs could be targeted strictly because of they chosen profession but Id bet non LEOs are victimized in greater numbers per capita for random reasons. My point is that (just thinking here) off duty/retired LEOs may be targeted more than other professions, but average serfs are still attacked more frequently, which puts regular citizens in greater danger in general.

Id be curious if actual statistics support my theory.

The problem with some of these stats are how they are recorded. Off duty assaults on officers proven related to the profession are recorded . Simple assaults of retired and non LEO are not collected nationally. It’s not one of the seven majors .

Police departments don’t want to record assaults on officers because it hurts their crime numbers— it’s in the seven majors that are recorded by the FBI .

If they surveyed retired officers and officers for incidents in general when retired/off duty, it might work. But then regular crimes would enter like the female cop who was murdered by her husband. Or the female cop who was raped in part that she left her gun at work instead of bringing it home.

 

[Truebeliever]

You should go see a doctor. Really. Your delusion and your obsession with trying to get in the last word is like nothing I’ve ever seen before in my life.

Yeah. You saw more combat in nyc streets than an infantry soldier in Vietnam, Iraq, or Afghanistan. I thought I heard it all.

Join the bandwagon. Wait was that the last word-lol

 

[Truebeliever]

You should go see a doctor. Really. Your delusion and your obsession with trying to get in the last word is like nothing I’ve ever seen before in my life.

Yeah. You saw more combat in nyc streets than an infantry soldier in Vietnam, Iraq, or Afghanistan. I thought I heard it all.

I said most veterans . I didn’t say combat veterans . Most veterans never saw or ever came close to combat but get those same benefits of those who did .

 

[GOPerfect]

Your parents making you wear a helmet to school when you were young is a different kind of special.

I grew up in the late 70's through the 80's, we did not wear helments, so there....

 

[spat]

Where does he work? And where does he live? It makes a difference. Do you think he could do that safely in Portland, OR?

I think you can't safely wear a red hat in Portland.

I think being a cop in Portland is insane. Anyone who chooses that must be some sort of daredevil.

But, I don't think Evel Knieval is entitled to ignore traffic rules because it does stupid things a lot.

 

[Truebeliever]

I think you can't safely wear a red hat in Portland.

I think being a cop in Portland is insane. Anyone who chooses that must be some sort of daredevil.

But, I don't think Evel Knieval is entitled to ignore traffic rules because it does stupid things a lot.

Agreed. As far as wearing the Trump hat:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

 

[spat]

Ahm, you assume that the retired police officer isn’t that old lady or old man or that 100 pound female. It’s not what it used to be.
As far as being alert, I used to be. Medical issues and just being out of the game have diminished those skills. Doesn’t make me less of a target if I wear something that identifies me as law enforcement.
Same rights huh, Okay so you should be allowed to carry in a secure area like a police officer or corrections officer can? Or a courtroom. I could carry into a state courtroom until I retired but could not carry in a federal court. Do you think I should have been able to carry into a federal courthouse too? Feds and federally deputized cops could . Or do you agree to those limits?

Why should cops in general have that right ?

Ones assigned to work there, sure. You get stationed there, get your name on the list.

But just because you catch speeders 200 miles away doesn't mean you should be able to carry guns somewhere nobody else can.

If you're going to make a secure gun free area, then make it secure (i.e. secure access that has a very high probability of stopping any weapons from being brought in). Then you need to restrict the people who *can* bring things in to the smallest reasonable number.

If you claim to have a secure area, but millions of people are exempt, then it is not secure.

Just like a secret that millions of people know isn't a secret.

That's why even if you have top secret clearance, you can't just browse through all the top secret documents in the government for some light reading. Only the people who need to see that document can see it. The same principle should apply for any secure area.

 

[Truebeliever]

Why should cops in general have that right ?

Ones assigned to work there, sure. You get stationed there, get your name on the list.

But just because you catch speeders 200 miles away doesn't mean you should be able to carry guns somewhere nobody else can.

If you're going to make a secure gun free area, then make it secure (i.e. secure access that has a very high probability of stopping any weapons from being brought in). Then you need to restrict the people who *can* bring things in to the smallest reasonable number.

If you claim to have a secure area, but millions of people are exempt, then it is not secure.

Just like a secret that millions of people know isn't a secret.

That's why even if you have top secret clearance, you can't just browse through all the top secret documents in the government for some light reading. Only the people who need to see that document can see it. The same principle should apply for any secure area.

Okay, I see what you are saying. But if that cop who pulls over speeded all day ends up off duty near Portland and is recognized as a cop by an Antifa member what is likely to happen? But you are right. In general, on the surface, that cop would seem to have less of a risk.

But even minor arrests can come back

POLICE RIP COP-BEAT PLEA DEAL

Police officials last night slammed a reputed plea deal for the thug who brutally beat an officer after recognizing him on the street as the cop who had busted him five years earlier. Revenge-drive…

nypost.com

 

[Truebeliever]

Why should cops in general have that right ?

Ones assigned to work there, sure. You get stationed there, get your name on the list.

But just because you catch speeders 200 miles away doesn't mean you should be able to carry guns somewhere nobody else can.

If you're going to make a secure gun free area, then make it secure (i.e. secure access that has a very high probability of stopping any weapons from being brought in). Then you need to restrict the people who *can* bring things in to the smallest reasonable number.

If you claim to have a secure area, but millions of people are exempt, then it is not secure.

Just like a secret that millions of people know isn't a secret.

That's why even if you have top secret clearance, you can't just browse through all the top secret documents in the government for some light reading. Only the people who need to see that document can see it. The same principle should apply for any secure area.

But just getting more to your point . NYPD cops can carry in Madison Square Garden . I can not. All non local cops can’t carry. I could say it’s because they are more easily confirmed as cops . I could say that it’s because they know the procedures etc. But I think it’s the danger coming in and coming out of the place. I don’t know if the Amtrak police can carry there( they run the train station it’s attached to.)
But there are plenty of places that bar off duty cops from carrying. If I want to go to a concert, certain sporting events , I can’t carry. But the clientele is different and it’s not local.

 

[Acer-m14]

Go look at them per captia.
FBI stats :
The rate of officer assaults in 2019 was 11.8 per 100 sworn officers. (See Table 80.)

Do you think 1out ten people are assaulted in the US each year?
2141 were assaulted with a firearm in 2019 out of 56141 recorded assaults. They lived so they aren’t on the killed stats out of 475,848 officers. But only 48 murdered . Only 48. About 1 out 10,000 chance ( actually of dying per year by 2019 stats. My math could be off. What was the civilian rate in 2019?
FBI stats:

There were 5.0 murders per 100,000 people in 2019 or .5 chance out of 10,000.
Who are most of those murders victims ? I don’t know but a large number are criminals themselves. Most of those murders occur in just 25 cities. Without those cities , gun violence would be less than a lot of European countries that the left puts up as examples to follow.

i thinks the Stats for this year alone for all of the USA will show that more people were shot and shot n killed then LEOS .... in Chicago ..

what is it like every weekend there 20 shot 4 killed .. good old Chicago ..

 

[Truebeliever]

i thinks the Stats for this year alone for all of the USA will show that more people were shot and shot n killed then LEOS .... in Chicago ..

what is it like every weekend there 20 shot 4 killed .. good old Chicago ..

It’s per captia. But if it’s just the population of just south side Chicago vs police, you might be right.

 

[Acer-m14]

im saying people shooting people is more then all Leo's getting shot per weekend .. and just using Chicago stats ..

 

[GOPerfect]

I will say this, I run into my clients all of the time. No matter what store or area I go in, I seem to always see them and they see me.

I have never been attacked. Harrassed at bit verbally, never attacked off duty. I think they know it would be a serious error to attack me.

 

[Tisto]

Just how people like you want to take away from others what you don’t have. And that we do have a higher threat .
Ironically, when I go to the fair in the free state of PA , I obey the no firearm signs without a problem. Very little chance of running into that specific threat there. But I have in Disneyworld, go figure.

Wait - You don't feel threatened at the fair in Pennsylvania ? Can the criminals in Pa not "make" you for some reason ? Do the donuts down there smell different and they don't recognize your scent ? I thought it was all about how you exude some magical cop aura. How the way you act is different than everyone else, and criminals all detect that. You're so full of...

You really must be special.

 

[Truebeliever]

Wait - You don't feel threatened at the fair in Pennsylvania ? Can the criminals in Pa not "make" you for some reason ? Do the donuts down there smell different and they don't recognize your scent ? I thought it was all about how you exude some magical cop aura. How the way you act is different than everyone else, and criminals all detect that. You're so full of...

You really must be special. View attachment 169388

Different atmosphere and I’m not local ie they know the cops from there. But people have asked me. They like cops there. Very pro-cop area. And a Trump hat would fit right in unlike a lot of the United States. Well armed general population in general. A polite society-lol Red part of the state.
If it was closer to Philly it would definitely be more of a problem.

Tell me, can you tell which one is the undercover cop

 

[Acer-m14]

what is it now .. 25 or 26 states are Constitutional Carry .. no permit needed .. where is the blood bath news of shootings from these States ??

 

[Truebeliever]

what is it now .. 25 or 26 states are Constitutional Carry .. no permit needed .. where is the blood bath news of shootings from these States ??

Great. I’m not for it but not against it. I would just want something to say the guy in front of me with a gun isn’t a felon . Hence my support of shall or must issue standards.But I’m fine with it. I also think teachers should be allowed to be armed.
No one on this site is against constitutional carry.

 

[Tisto]

Different atmosphere and I’m not local ie they know the cops from there. But people have asked me. They like cops there. Very pro-cop area. And a Trump hat would fit right in unlike a lot of the United States. Well armed general population in general. A polite society-lol Red part of the state.
If it was closer to Philly it would definitely be more of a problem.

Tell me, can you tell which one is the undercover cop
View attachment 169391

You're not local to Syracuse, either !

 

[Acer-m14]

Great. I’m not for it but not against it. I would just want something to say the guy in front of me with a gun isn’t a felon . Hence my support of shall or must issue standards.

what type of a Felon ?? a non violent one or a Violent one .. how will you know .. both are out in Public .. every thing now is a fucking Felony Charge ..

 

[Acer-m14]

 

[Truebeliever]

You're not local to Syracuse, either !

Nope. But we were talking about off duty cops in general . So if the local cop had to go to the fair unarmed, it would be a problem.
And I don’t know Syracuse but I do know what comes to a state fair. All sorts.
I also know where I have run into people I have arrested while out of state on vacation. It’s amazing how small the world can be.

 

[Acer-m14]

Nope. But we were talking about off duty cops in general . So if the local cop had to go to the fair unarmed, it would be a problem.

why can't everyone carry there like the other 25/26 states that have fairs ?

 

[Truebeliever]

why can't everyone carry there like the other 25/26 states that have fairs ?

A lot of the fairs say no firearms as a condition of entry including in some constructional carry states . No real screening at all at some of them.

 

[Truebeliever]

what type of a Felon ?? a non violent one or a Violent one .. how will you know .. both are out in Public .. every thing now is a fucking Felony Charge ..

Very true, Too many laws have been made felonies now but too few criminal cases are prosecuted as felonies

 

[Acer-m14]

watch for it .. i get a screen cap for you ..



i see a AR with a Drum Mag

 

[spat]

But just getting more to your point . NYPD cops can carry in Madison Square Garden . I can not. All non local cops can’t carry. I could say it’s because they are more easily confirmed as cops . I could say that it’s because they know the procedures etc. But I think it’s the danger coming in and coming out of the place. I don’t know if the Amtrak police can carry there( they run the train station it’s attached to.)
But there are plenty of places that bar off duty cops from carrying. If I want to go to a concert, certain sporting events , I can’t carry. But the clientele is different and it’s not local.

Maybe it shouldn't be all NYPD then. If they're going to make MSG a secure zone, then only the cops assigned to that detail should be armed.

Some guy who files paperwork all day at 1PP shouldn't be allowed to carry there if the guy who denies insurance claims all day can't.

 

[spat]

A lot of the fairs say no firearms as a condition of entry including in some constructional carry states . No real screening at all at some of them.

In Arizona if they want that to mean anything more than "pretty please" they are required to provide storage lockers for you to secure your carry gun on entry.

 

[Nighttrain]

Is anyone here planning on attending

Fair Events Calendar - The Great New York State Fair

The calendar of events for the Great NY State fair includes hundreds of events for the entire family. Browse hundreds of events at the NY State Fairgrounds.

nysfair.ny.gov

 

[S&W Fan]

I haven’t been to the NYS fair in years and other than the food, I don’t miss it one bit.

 

[Nighttrain]

I haven’t been to the NYS fair in years and other than the food, I don’t miss it one bit.

I’m with you, the same scumbags that attend the local fairs also attend the state fair.