Open Carry (security vs. us)

[Chevusa]

As written, open carry is illegal for security and us because we do not have an exemption for it. It’s a poorly written law with unintended illegality just the same as when they forgot to exempt cops when the safe act was passed. The only difference is that they didn’t amend it for us to fix it like they did with the police. It just isn’t enforced for security just the same as it isn’t enforced for us when hunting, at the range, or on private property.

I do not feel like getting into a pissing match here but anyone with a good grasp of reading comprehension can see that all carry and possession is illegal via penal law 265 unless exempted via penal law 400. The exemptions listed in penal law 400 is possession only if you get premise license and to have and carry concealed if you get license F. There is no exemption for any other method of carry besides concealed.

If your take was correct, and none of know if it is, then you would have a case of selective enforcement, an actual effective legal defense.

That’s the debate. To have and to carry concealed. If I own a pen and it is held on top of my ear or clipped to my shirt I have the pen. Everyone looking at me would say “he has a pen”. If I put the pen inside my pocket I am carrying the pen concealed. To have AND to carry concealed. An additional permission as I understand it.

Concealed carry was what was to be regulated when the law was enacted. Up until then it was the criminals who would conceal so they could surprise their victims. This law granted ordinary citizens the ability to conceal. I understand you don’t have the same opinion and yours is no more valid than mine. I wish the AG or someone would just give us an answer in this.

 

[Marine Cpl]

If your take was correct, and none of know if it is, then you would have a case of selective enforcement, an actual effective legal defense.

That’s the debate. To have and to carry concealed. If I own a pen and it is held on top of my ear or clipped to my shirt I have the pen. Everyone looking at me would say “he has a pen”. If I put the pen inside my pocket I am carrying the pen concealed. To have AND to carry concealed. An additional permission as I understand it.

Concealed carry was what was to be regulated when the law was enacted. Up until then it was the criminals who would conceal so they could surprise their victims. This law granted ordinary citizens the ability to conceal. I understand you don’t have the same opinion and yours is no more valid than mine. I wish the AG or someone would just give us an answer in this.

The pen analogy if it were correct would authorize someone with a premises license to have and carry openly through the state. That clearly isn’t the case.

 

[Chevusa]

The pen analogy if it were correct would authorize someone with a premises license to have and carry openly through the state. That clearly isn’t the case.

The premises provision specifically limits carry to a named area. “In household or in place of business”. No such location restrictions exist under F.

 

[Elwood]

Aside from work, I don’t open carry. I prefer to have the element of surprise. When open carrying you lose that advantage. I rather not advertise that I have a handgun

 

[Chevusa]

Aside from work, I don’t open carry. I prefer to have the element of surprise. When open carrying you lose that advantage. I rather not advertise that I have a handgun

Understood. But your preference has nothing to do with what is lawful or not.

 

[Marine Cpl]

The premises provision specifically limits carry to a named area. “In household or in place of business”. No such location restrictions exist under F.

It makes no mention of carry. It says to have and possess. Ours (License F) says to have and carry concealed.

 

[SmallGameAddict]

My license plainly states "Unrestricted-Carry Concealed".

That said, I DO "open carry" I.e. belt holster outside my clothing, while hunting, esp in warmer weather. The local greasy spoon is full of open carry hoglegs during deer season. Deputy Sheriffs and troopers eat there. Nothing's ever said.

Maybe it's because I live in a rural area. Dunno. I don't worry about it.

I carry concealed for defense purposes.

 

[spat]

As written, open carry is illegal for security and us because we do not have an exemption for it. It’s a poorly written law with unintended illegality just the same as when they forgot to exempt cops when the safe act was passed. The only difference is that they didn’t amend it for us to fix it like they did with the police. It just isn’t enforced for security just the same as it isn’t enforced for us when hunting, at the range, or on private property.

I do not feel like getting into a pissing match here but anyone with a good grasp of reading comprehension can see that all carry and possession is illegal via penal law 265 unless exempted via penal law 400. The exemptions listed in penal law 400 is possession only if you get premise license and to have and carry concealed if you get license F. There is no exemption for any other method of carry besides concealed.

Your analysis of the text is flawed.

You have an exemption to possess (have) and to carry concealed.

It does not say "to have while carrying concealed"

It says "to have and [to] carry concealed" 2 separate things, both are permitted.

Your interpretation would require people to keep their guns concealed on their person 24/7.

 

[Chevusa]

It makes no mention of carry. It says to have and possess. Ours (License F) says to have and carry concealed.

But it does specifically limit them to within a home or business. To have and to carry concealed without regard to location is what F is.

If it were banned why wouldn’t it be said so? If not in the penal law because it was “overlooked” as you say, then why not when they print the card? Instead of “License to carry pistol is hereby granted” they could easily type in “concealed” into that sentence. The other missed opportunity to do so is on the back where it says it is issued with the following conditions then goes on to list no NYC carry. They could easily put there it must remain concealed. They do no such thing however.

On top of all of that, I posted an official letter from a N.Y. court of law specifically saying “concealed or unconcealed” is allowed. Pretty damming case for it being legal.

 

[Blimey]

Good thread, chev. Scanned real quick. Looks like still nobody has found where in the law security guards are actually allowed to open carry?

 

[SmallGameAddict]

Good thread, chev. Scanned real quick. Looks like still nobody has found where in the law security guards are actually allowed to open carry?

That's true. No one has found where in the Constitution it says pistol permit required to have and carry concealed either.

 

[Blimey]

That's true. No one has found where in the Constitution it says pistol permit required to have and carry concealed either.

There's no constitution in this state, though, so state law is the important thing here.

 

[SmallGameAddict]

There's no constitution in this state, though, so state law is the important thing here.

Just saying

 

[BDinPutnam]

I love these threads.

"Tell me what you think....


WRONG!"

 

[SmallGameAddict]

I love these threads.

"Tell me what you think....


WRONG!"

Mostly ppl just want to listen to those who agree with them.

Some have an open mind. Some don't.

There's an old saying. "Tell it to the Judge".

 

[Chevusa]

That's true. No one has found where in the Constitution it says pistol permit required to have and carry concealed either.

SCOTUS is on record unfortunately. Same cannot be said for the subject of this thread.

 

[byron]

There's no constitution in this state, though, so state law is the important thing here.

Sorry but there is.

New York State Constitution

 

[Chevusa]

I love these threads.

"Tell me what you think....


WRONG!"

More of “show me what you know”. Everyone has an opinion. They are irrelevant to the facts. Looking for more factual written data than opinions. The more eyes looking the better. I cited a court case supporting open carry when a permit to possess is issued and also a letter from another court supporting open carry at the persons preference.

 

[SmallGameAddict]

SCOTUS is on record unfortunately. Same cannot be said for the subject of this thread.

Truthfully Chev, I'm disappointed.
They've ruled, rightfully, that the Constitution applies to the States thru the 14th Amendment.

Yet, they ignore all these State schemes to impede and/or deny 2nd Amendment rights.

Irks me to pay a fee and have a license to possess and carry a pistol in NYS. My voters registration card didn't cost me one thin dime.

 

[Chevusa]

Truthfully Chev, I'm disappointed.
They've ruled, rightfully, that the Constitution applies to the States thru the 14th Amendment.

Yet, they ignore all these State schemes to impede and/or deny 2nd Amendment rights.

Irks me to pay a fee and have a license to possess and carry a pistol in NYS. My voters registration card didn't cost me one thin dime.

See the video I posted here.

 

[1075tech]

IDK, my "pistol permit" clearly states in capital letters "LICENSE TO CARRY PISTOL IS HEREBY GRANTED".It then lists my pertinent info: Name, address etc. Under my picture it says "UNRESTRICTED".

There is no "have and carry concealed" or anything else. I open carry when hunting and at a range. I have been stopped by DEC while hunting. They only asked to see my hunting license ad pistol permit.

I too think that open carry is legal but I wouldn't do it day to day for many reasons

 

[Chevusa]

IDK, my "pistol permit" clearly states in capital letters "LICENSE TO CARRY PISTOL IS HEREBY GRANTED".It then lists my pertinent info: Name, address etc. Under my picture it says "UNRESTRICTED".

Exactly what I mean. If it were specifically not allowed there are many opportunities to state it - yet they never have. It would be a 2 minute process to type it into the computer that prints out the permits and it would go right into the section that lists other conditions such as NYC carry.

 

[Day444]

I too asked this question awhile back, and like OP never got an answer. Some rent a cop who's getting paid to watch someone else s money can openly carry? They are no more special than anyone else with a permit!

 

[SmallGameAddict]

I don't know Chev. Not being an attorney, it's difficult to make a truly positive contribution to this thread. Best I can do is read the law, understand it to the best of my ability, in order to comply with it.

Seems to be an unwritten law, that if you're engaged in a lawful activity in which a handgun can be lawfully used, it's perfectly fine. Small game and deer hunting with a handgun, for example. Or, trapping. Surely no DEC officer I know of is going to bust my balls about the fact that I'm open carrying in the woods, while lawfully engaged in hunting/trapping with a valid PP and hunting/trapping license. Same goes for carrying a 6" fixed blade knife.

Open carrying in downtown Oswego is a whole other can of worms. As @1075tech stated, he wouldn't open carry involved in other activities for a whole host of reasons, and I feel the same. I can legally carry concealed in those situations and no one knows but me.

I agree that it's a double standard, but just about any attorney would argue that an armed guard open carrying in public would be "necessary to perform their intended duties". It would be considered necessary for their employment, in order to perform their job.

I'd much rather have my Unrestricted permit to carry concealed, than a permit conditional on employment.

 

[Elwood]

I too asked this question awhile back, and like OP never got an answer. Some rent a cop who's getting paid to watch someone else s money can openly carry? They are no more special than anyone else with a permit!

Love the rent a cop moniker, 9 out 10 people who get hired into the company I work for don’t make it a month before they quit from the workload and pressure put onto their shoulders, and a good percentage are former military/corrections/ law enforcement. When you go to your place of employment do you leave the house every day with the potential of getting shot for simply doing your job like us rent a cops ? We also don’t enforce the law, not our job. Don’t get butt-hurt because we open carry all day and you can’t

 

[nortatoga]

FUNNY THREAD HERE!!!!!!

 

[Chevusa]

What I would be doing is hardly rent a cop shit. They have handled security for Trump associates not too long ago who do not have SS protection. It’s not a blowjob company.

 

[Blimey]

Love the rent a cop moniker, 9 out 10 people who get hired into the company I work for don’t make it a month before they quit from the workload and pressure put onto their shoulders, and a good percentage are former military/corrections/ law enforcement. When you go to your place of employment do you leave the house every day with the potential of getting shot for simply doing your job like us rent a cops ? We also don’t enforce the law, not our job. Don’t get butt-hurt because we open carry all day and you can’t

View attachment 80235

What is so difficult about it? I'm not being flippant; honest question. Being a bodyguard for a celebrity I can see as high stress activity for sure, but driving a brinks truck or similar doesn't seem to me so.

 

[Elwood]

What is so difficult about it? I'm not being flippant; honest question. Being a bodyguard for a celebrity I can see as high stress activity for sure, but driving a brinks truck or similar doesn't seem to me so.

It’s not just driving a truck. We service ATM’s, commercial businesses as well as banks. You need to know many different types of software for the atms, as well as troubleshoot malfunctioning machines.The machine doesn’t load itself.

Mountains of paperwork every day. While covering a considerable distance every day on a razor thin schedule and having the ability to adapt to changing your entire schedule for the day at a moments notice. You need good customer service manners with all types of people, pissing off a customer or a third party vendor is not gonna fly.

All while the public wants to get in your way with every step you take, Cut the truck off in traffic oblivious to the fact that one of those trucks will cut through a Honda like a hot knife through butter. Park in the no parking/ loading zones in front of stores and supermarkets blocking you from pulling up where you need to. Make shitty jokes and comments and break your chops while your trying to work and not get distracted from what your doing. So your juggling all that along with trying not to get smoked in a parking lot on a hot day in a bulletproof vest, while the AARP crowd asks for samples when they see the money man.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I swear. Some of you guys. It makes no matter what’s written on your license. Only the penal law matters. Convictions come from the penal law. Laws broken read to the jury come from the penal law. Sometimes I feel like I’m talk to... Ah never mind. No sense in berating anyone. Some have the capacity to understand and some do not. That’s how it is.