POF “Other” rifle

Airborneguy

Airborneguy

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I see the prosecutor treating this as an assault weapon with a forward grip resulting in conviction or plea after the defendant runs out of money to appeal unless they can somehow convince a gun rights organization to intervene.

Another scenario, though less likely, they could charge it as an illegal SBR but they may at least respect the attempt with the brace.

I don’t see it as legal under NY’s laws, whether I agree or not.
 
Saltwater60

Saltwater60

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Airborneguy said:
I see the prosecutor treating this as an assault weapon with a forward grip resulting in conviction or plea after the defendant runs out of money to appeal unless they can somehow convince a gun rights organization to intervene.

Another scenario, though less likely, they could charge it as an illegal SBR but they may at least respect the attempt with the brace.

I don’t see it as legal under NY’s laws, whether I agree or not.
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I agree. That was my thought process as well.

Think about it if you go to trial and they show an “assault weapon” with all the banned features and then they show your firearm with all the banned features you’d be convicted I would say. I just can’t see where you would reasonably get out of it honestly without a ton of money and appeals. Your life would be ruined.
 
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nyenthusiast

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These just aren’t worth the level of risk that comes with them in my opinion. I understand that they
nay be legal by the letter of the law, but as with most things that exist in a sort grey area, it’s not a problem until the day it is. I imagine some of the guys buying these things are shooting on private property out in the boonies and might very well never encounter law enforcement. I certainly think having one at a public range would prompt a lot of interest and questions from the folks around you. I’m not a lawyer or a cop, but I don’t think the average police officer is going to have the level of federal firearms law knowledge required to understand that this is somehow not a short barreled rifle. The juice is just not worth the squeeze.
 
Saltwater60

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Are people putting these on their pistol permits? If you look at the manufactures web site they say they are a pistol.
 
garyv350

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A shop local to me has sold hundreds of these. Always a waiting list. Shop is notorious for selling NY compliant stuff. And like I said before. These are nothing new. Been out for sale here since the 2018 Shot Show. Haven't heard of any situations with them as of yet.
 
S

SuffolkArms

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Willjr75 said:
I don't think the question would be if it's a short-barreled rifle. The question would be if it's a pistol in in an assault weapon configuration. And an AR pistol is exactly that.
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What if you built an other with a 16 inch barrel and a New York State Law Enforcement agency were to define a pistol as:

(d) Pistol means a firearm intended to be aimed and fired with one hand, and having a barrel length not exceeding 16 inches.
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View Document - New York Codes, Rules and Regulations

Maybe it's high time we start using People vs. Russo against the state... PEOPLE v. RUSSO | 38 Misc.2d 957 (1963) | sc2d9572710 | Leagle.com
 
Marine Cpl

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SuffolkArms

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Willjr75 said:
That would be nice except New York has no definition of a pistol.
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The definition is right in the New York Conservation Law Chapter I linked, Chapter 6 CRR-NY 180.3. The conservation laws are also the only place you'll find the prohibition on carrying loaded rifles and shotguns in your car as per People v. Russo.
 
knuts

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Was just at blueline and saw they have 3 of these on display. one is in 308. While i was there looking at these, 2 guys came in and bought 2. I was told these are pretty much the only thing they have been selling for the past 2 months and they sold ALOT. 2 of the guys chilling and looking at the pistols were plain clothes LEO too.
still not gonna risk buying one of these for me though
 
garyv350

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So 10 people on here don't think these are ok. Big deal. 10 opinions that don't matter on a supposed legal issue. Everyone is entitled to have their own opinions. But in the end, nothing any of us say really matters. Untill something either happens or doesn't, I doubt the people who buy these are out flaunting them being stupid about it. Yea. That's my opinion. Who cares. Buy one if you want it. Or don't.
 
BMF JK

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Airborneguy said:
Well if this matters, my “opinion” is that I could make a probable cause arrest upon observing this firearm in someone’s possession and that it would hold up in any NY criminal court.

I wouldn’t due to my personal beliefs, but I could, 100%.
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Unfortunately there far too many LEO that don’t share your beliefs and would make an arrest without hesitation.
 
spat

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Airborneguy said:
Well if this matters, my “opinion” is that I could make a probable cause arrest upon observing this firearm in someone’s possession and that it would hold up in any NY criminal court.

I wouldn’t due to my personal beliefs, but I could, 100%.
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Is observing a full featured AW probable cause that it is not properly registered ?
 
Marine Cpl

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spat said:
Is observing a full featured AW probable cause that it is not properly registered ?
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If I was an anti-gun cop that would be a yes. What would I care? If you are innocent, you can prove that in court. Your word that it's registered would mean nothing to me.
 
Saltwater60

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garyv350 said:
So 10 people on here don't think these are ok. Big deal. 10 opinions that don't matter on a supposed legal issue. Everyone is entitled to have their own opinions. But in the end, nothing any of us say really matters. Untill something either happens or doesn't, I doubt the people who buy these are out flaunting them being stupid about it. Yea. That's my opinion. Who cares. Buy one if you want it. Or don't.
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Just curious did you buy one or are you planning on buying one?
I won’t be and I agree with your statement, but I would lean more towards your probably likely to get in trouble and there is always that person that will do something stupid.
 
spat

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Saltwater60 said:
It’s probable cause to investigate yes.
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Is that tacit admission by the state that the majority of AWs in the state are not registered ?

Also, what is the scope of the allowed "investigation" ?

We are not required to maintain or possess any documentation for registered AWs, and AFAIK it is not a simple matter for an officer to check the status of one.

If the investigation consists of asking if it's registered, what happens if the subject refuses to answer ? Do you confiscate the AW until you can determine it's status ?
 
garyv350

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Saltwater60 said:
Just curious did you buy one or are you planning on buying one?
I won’t be and I agree with your statement, but I would lean more towards your probably likely to get in trouble and there is always that person that will do something stupid.
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Already have it. And will buy another when they release a 9mm version.
 
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