Red Dot for my AR-15
- Thread starter masterswimmer
- Start date
Vapor
.308 Win
Hory shet this thread got weird.
I've had two holosuns. One mounted on an utlimak, another on an ar.
They are a little cheap feeling compared to my aimpoint. At the same time, they held up just fine and took the heat of an ak gas system like a champ.
That being said, I still have my aimpoint. The holosuns went with various rifles when they were sold... I would grab one again for a pcc or a cheap upper and expect it to hold up just fine. While I enjoy torture tests, I dont plan to drag mine behind a truck.
The sig, tru glo, holosun, palmetto, and primary arms are all made by the same oem. Just buy whatever one is cheapest the time with the features you want.
My personal over looked favorites are 1-3 and 2-7 scopes. I have several from Japanese and American companies. They give quick shots yet better long range ability. Especially when you're trying to make out a critter through brush and thread the eyes of a needle through branches.
A weaver v3 1-3x literally weighs nine ounces and had an 87 foot fov at 100 yards. They are $139 with free shipping at Natchez right now. Not the cool, hip thing since about 2012, but widely used in 3 gun before the new wonder 1-6 scopes came out. Made in Japan.
P.s. I had a primary arms 1-6 and hated it. Heavy, busy reticle, and fish tank like clarity. If you're going 1-6, buy once, cry once.
I've had two holosuns. One mounted on an utlimak, another on an ar.
They are a little cheap feeling compared to my aimpoint. At the same time, they held up just fine and took the heat of an ak gas system like a champ.
That being said, I still have my aimpoint. The holosuns went with various rifles when they were sold... I would grab one again for a pcc or a cheap upper and expect it to hold up just fine. While I enjoy torture tests, I dont plan to drag mine behind a truck.
The sig, tru glo, holosun, palmetto, and primary arms are all made by the same oem. Just buy whatever one is cheapest the time with the features you want.
My personal over looked favorites are 1-3 and 2-7 scopes. I have several from Japanese and American companies. They give quick shots yet better long range ability. Especially when you're trying to make out a critter through brush and thread the eyes of a needle through branches.
A weaver v3 1-3x literally weighs nine ounces and had an 87 foot fov at 100 yards. They are $139 with free shipping at Natchez right now. Not the cool, hip thing since about 2012, but widely used in 3 gun before the new wonder 1-6 scopes came out. Made in Japan.
P.s. I had a primary arms 1-6 and hated it. Heavy, busy reticle, and fish tank like clarity. If you're going 1-6, buy once, cry once.
masterswimmer
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Bite me!
Vapor
.308 Win
Honesty, buy a holosun, a 2-7x traditional scope with a quality mount from areo or warne, and try both for under your budget.
shit, get a fixed 6x or 10x swfa mil dot too. They are on sale for $230 for demos right now. Great optic to learn long range.
I've gone through 20-30 scopes from being about 22-33 years old to find what I liked. No one can tell you what wo rks with your brain and your eyes. Try shit.
shit, get a fixed 6x or 10x swfa mil dot too. They are on sale for $230 for demos right now. Great optic to learn long range.
I've gone through 20-30 scopes from being about 22-33 years old to find what I liked. No one can tell you what wo rks with your brain and your eyes. Try shit.
Was that primary arms the gen3 with Chevron reticle? I heard those are much better than the earlier ones. The good 1x6 scopes can be pricey.
I'll agree about the tube holosuns feeling cheaply made, including the risers, but they hold up. The 510 on the other hand is very nice, and quite beefy. They are even using a titanium hood for protection.
fnfalguy
.308 Win
@masterswimmer if you aren't in a rush, and you are relatively close, and interested, I have a vortex lvpo and holosun red dot, vortex sparc and strike fire 2 you can look at/try out. Let me know. The vortex I have is the less expensive crossfire but should give you an idea of what the LVPO is like. As for the holosuns I have both a 510c and 503GU. And if you are curious could bring along an ACOG and trijicon reflex.
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Vortex Strike Eagle, good scope and it's right in your budget range. Around $500 gets you into a lot of quality budget scopes.I hate you!!!!
Excellent point to consider.
Mostly 99.9% range time from 100-200 yds.
I'm leaning back to LPVO again. The problem with this choice is my budget is not putting me into anything near decent quality. That bothers me.
Now........
-First Focal Plane vs Second Focal plane- not a hard decision to make actually. For a low powered variable it doesn't matter. The only potential issue is that the reticle may be either to fine at 1x or too coarse at max magnification.
For a mid power variable with a mil dot or MOA reticle that you will do a lot of holds and ranging with first focal plane is best.
For the type of optic that more closely resembles the Hubble Space Telescope a second focal plane is better because the too fine/too coarse reticle issue will be greatly exaggerated in a first focal plane setup.
-For any kind of shooting beyond 100 yards even a small amount of magnification is a big help and I would recommend a scope for that. Inside 100 yards exclusively or for SD/HD a red dot is by far best except if you are shooting groups right at 100 yards. Trying to get tight groups with a red dot at that range is a frustrating exercise, trust me, I know this well. It can be done but achieving any kind of consistency is very difficult. I actually think a good set of irons with a skinny front post is better for accuracy that a red dot. Red dots are for speed and that's about it. Also consider a holographic sight such as the EoTech. Your budget encompasses the Vortex UH-1 holo sight which I myself am interested in.
That is precisely why I got the Kahles K16i 1-6.
Quite lightweight, top of the line glass, outstanding FOV (best in class actually)
And the reticle............ well funny thing about the SM1 reticle. When I shoot groups with it I find myself thinking
"why did I get this reticle?"
(actually I got that particular one because it was the floor model and I got a near $300 discount on it)
Then I will do stuff like shoot my little yellow self sealing cube thingy, catch it on the roll 5 times in a row and then I'm thinking
"That's why I got this reticle!"
Fantastic scope. The sticker shock gives one the sensation of plucking one's nose hairs though.
Y'know, your eyes twitch a little and water.
This is probably the most helpful thing said in the thread. If you are in my AO I would offer you the same with different choices of course.
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kev74
20×102mm Vulcan
Eotech 512 for $339 at Brownells.
EOTECH 512 Holgraphic Sight 65 MOA Ring w/1 MOA Dot - $339 shipped after code
EOTECH 512 Holgraphic Sight 65 MOA Ring w/1 MOA Dot - $339 shipped after code
Red dots vs LVPO "in context"
masterswimmer
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Thanks for that offer. You anywhere near Orange County?
fnfalguy
.308 Win
Yep. Live in OC. Near Newburgh. If you have a range we can meet there. Not sure the schedule of my range this weekend but can check tonight.
masterswimmer
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Make sure to let us know what you settle on.
masterswimmer
.450/400 Nitro Ex
You can take it to the bank.
Bustedknees
.308 Win
I received a email from CDNN today, they're having a big sale and closeout on optics..
BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
Re 2x7 and 1x4- I have to do some swapping and testing but I've found (so far) that i actually like my Vortex 2x7 better than my Burris 1x4 for the 50-150 yard environment. Its lighter, smaller, and I fuss with the zoom a lot less.
I have to try it some more at shorter distances but may actually replace the 1x4 with another 2x7 (the Burris is on a .223 AR and the Vortex is on a .308 Mossberg Patrol so there are more variables than the scopes I need to play with). Anyone see downsides to going to the 2x7 instead of the 1x4?
ETA: this was sort of a hijack because the 2x7 has no illumination. Just throwing it out there.
I have to try it some more at shorter distances but may actually replace the 1x4 with another 2x7 (the Burris is on a .223 AR and the Vortex is on a .308 Mossberg Patrol so there are more variables than the scopes I need to play with). Anyone see downsides to going to the 2x7 instead of the 1x4?
ETA: this was sort of a hijack because the 2x7 has no illumination. Just throwing it out there.
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Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Downsides? If for defense, 0 to 50 will always be mostly what you’ll shoot at and you’ll handicap your rifle with a 2x7.
If not for defense and just for fun at the range, then whatever you like. You can even go 3x9 to make things closer.
kev74
20×102mm Vulcan
I just ordered a Vortex 2-7 for my 7.62x39 AR. I had been using mostly 1-4 scopes, but 4x was leaving me wanting more.
I have a Crossfire with the illuminated dot and never turn the dot on.
masterswimmer
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I got a chance to hit the range to test run a few optics discussed in this thread, thanks to @fnfalguy .
All these are on the AR platform (either AR-15 or AR9). The exact model #'s might be off. I was overwhelmed with the variety he has.
Holosun 510C
Holosun 403C (I think that was the model)
Trijicon ACOG (I believe that was the model)
Vortex LPVO 1-4x24 (again, I can't remember which model......so sue me already!)
After sighting in some of these optics it became abundantly clear that my needs were some magnification. I had success on the 100yd steel with 10/10 hits. When we went to 200yds I failed with only 3/5 steel hits. But I was encouraged. Bottom line, I'll be placing an order for this LPVO:
Vortex Viper PST Gen II 1-6x24
Thanks again to @fnfalguy had a great range day with invaluable info and hands on, boots on the ground experience to make this decision a no brainer for me. Originally titled this thread 'Red Dot for my AR-15' with no knowledge or intention to look at anything else. The first to suggest even looking at LPVO was @Podmonkey . Thanks for that recommendation. It proved to be spot on mate.
FYI, don't let this post sway anyone's opinion of @fnfalguy . He has been, still is, and always will be a prick. (How'd I do fnfalguy?).
All these are on the AR platform (either AR-15 or AR9). The exact model #'s might be off. I was overwhelmed with the variety he has.
Holosun 510C
Holosun 403C (I think that was the model)
Trijicon ACOG (I believe that was the model)
Vortex LPVO 1-4x24 (again, I can't remember which model......so sue me already!)
After sighting in some of these optics it became abundantly clear that my needs were some magnification. I had success on the 100yd steel with 10/10 hits. When we went to 200yds I failed with only 3/5 steel hits. But I was encouraged. Bottom line, I'll be placing an order for this LPVO:
Vortex Viper PST Gen II 1-6x24
Thanks again to @fnfalguy had a great range day with invaluable info and hands on, boots on the ground experience to make this decision a no brainer for me. Originally titled this thread 'Red Dot for my AR-15' with no knowledge or intention to look at anything else. The first to suggest even looking at LPVO was @Podmonkey . Thanks for that recommendation. It proved to be spot on mate.
FYI, don't let this post sway anyone's opinion of @fnfalguy . He has been, still is, and always will be a prick. (How'd I do fnfalguy?).
Actually it was @Edwardteach72 that first suggested a scope. Must've gotten lost in the two pages of back and forth bickering.
Anyways, the PST is quite an upgrade over what you were originally planning, happens to all of us. That scope should serve you very well, it is a popular and well liked optic, a notch or two above the Strike Eagles.
With even a 1-6 scope, hits that took some concentration with a red dot become boringly routine under 6x. There is a small steel target set out at the 200 yard line of the High Power line at my range. With a RDS I could hit it maybe 7 of ten times. With my scope I can hit it every single time with out trying very hard. Seriously, I loaded up a 30 round mag and just had at it.
"Bang, ping, bang, ping, bang, ping"
Every single time, not one miss.
Anyways, the PST is quite an upgrade over what you were originally planning, happens to all of us. That scope should serve you very well, it is a popular and well liked optic, a notch or two above the Strike Eagles.
With even a 1-6 scope, hits that took some concentration with a red dot become boringly routine under 6x. There is a small steel target set out at the 200 yard line of the High Power line at my range. With a RDS I could hit it maybe 7 of ten times. With my scope I can hit it every single time with out trying very hard. Seriously, I loaded up a 30 round mag and just had at it.
"Bang, ping, bang, ping, bang, ping"
Every single time, not one miss.
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masterswimmer
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Thanks for the nod of approval. This decision took the wind out of me. I know many don't consider this glass expensive, but it's the most I've ever spent on optics and I wanted to do my due diligence to get it right the first time. I'm a firm believer of buy once, cry once.
I went with the Vortex Optics Pro Extended Viper 30mm Cantilver Mount. I always have trouble with ears getting in the way of low mount optics. I think this should give me the clearance I need.
I had some trouble with the 6x. Believe it or not I actually had trouble with the 3x. I was experiencing heartbeat shake at 3x and above. 2.5x was the max I could handle at 100yds. Out to 200yds I was able to manage 3x better.
@Edwardteach72 props go out to you for the LPVO recommendation. Thanks
No, that PST is worth a good chunk of change no doubt, definitely byind the budget range of optics. As for the steadiness issue, you talking offhand shooting? All that movement you see is what you couldn't under a red dot. Now you will at least be able to better tell if your POA is true. Try this: focus on your breathing, work on getting the reticle to rise and fall with your breaths only in the vertical plane, then line it up so that the crosshairs align with the target at the top or bottom of your breaths.
When you line it up thus pause your breath for just a moment and squeeze off the shot. This is the technique I use in @dsdmmat's matches and it's worked pretty well for me so far.
When you line it up thus pause your breath for just a moment and squeeze off the shot. This is the technique I use in @dsdmmat's matches and it's worked pretty well for me so far.
Bustedknees
.308 Win
Ouch.. msrp $899..
fnfalguy
.308 Win
@masterswimmer
Ya did good. The other optics we had were:
Trijicon Reflex
Trijicon RMR
Vortex Sparc II
Vortex strikefire
Vortex 503gu
Vortex 507c
A lot to absorb in a short period of time. Glad it helped out.
Ya did good. The other optics we had were:
Trijicon Reflex
Trijicon RMR
Vortex Sparc II
Vortex strikefire
Vortex 503gu
Vortex 507c
A lot to absorb in a short period of time. Glad it helped out.
That's what I meant by @masterswimmer upgrading. Not a cheap scope. It's a good scope though. Ian of forgotten weapons bought one for his "what would Stoner do?" rifle and he likes it.
masterswimmer
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Yes, $899 is a 'whoa' moment for me. Keep in mind that MSRP is just that, MsuggestedRP
That glass is available virtually everywhere for $599. Still not chump change in my book, but not $899 either.