Red Flag standoff in Mahopac
- Thread starter Edwardteach72
- Start date
That's not remotely true, or at least the inference that facts don't exist here. They do, you just don't have them (which isn't required).
He's been in front of a judge(s) more than once in regards to this case. There are rules in courtrooms. What passes for "facts" on the internet-heroes, flood-the-911-system side certainly wouldn't be allowed, but the police and subsequently the DA's must stick to reality in front of judges and opposing defense attorneys.
One big fact.... We have victims who have stated that they were in fact wronged by this guy.
There is in fact a complaint signed by at least two different people of crimes that were committed against them.
These complaints and facts as seen cannot be ignored.
There is in fact a complaint signed by at least two different people of crimes that were committed against them.
These complaints and facts as seen cannot be ignored.
Robin
.475 A&M Magnum
This all may be so. I know it is not 'required' that I receive the facts, I just thought by now something would have been published so the general public has a clue as to just what happened and some sort of sequence of events. That kind of used to be the norm.
Robin
Robin
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Sources please.
Research his court appearance. It is there for all to see. His arraignment can be read by all.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Well google isn’t really helping in that respect. Wish it was posted.
"Alexander Booth was subsequently arrested on a felony warrant issued by Town Justice Jacobellis stemming from the previous domestic incident. Mr. Booth was charged with Penal Law 140.25 Burglary 2nd Degree a class C felony; 140.15 Criminal Trespass a class A misdemeanor; 215.50 Criminal Contempt 2nd degree a class A misdemeanor; 240.30 Aggravated Harassment 2nd degree a class A misdemeanor; 155.25 Petit Larceny a class A misdemeanor. He was arraignment in Carmel Town Justice Court."
Robin
.475 A&M Magnum
I will make a wild assumption here, innocent till proven guilty.
He may well be a jerk, and soon a felonious jerk, but that does not detract from the real time decisions people made and the well made and articulated point Spat over and over again.
Robin
He may well be a jerk, and soon a felonious jerk, but that does not detract from the real time decisions people made and the well made and articulated point Spat over and over again.
Robin
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Those charges are from articles published after the standoff from the statements the Putnam Cty Police published. Previously they made public statements that he wasn’t wanted on any charges but was rather wanted for medical attention. Which is it?
GOYABEAN
.950 JDJ
I don't have enough facts to comment intelligently to this event. As far as revolution (The American Revolution specifically) I do know that it was not clear cut as to what was reaction to wrongs committed by the Brits and what was just hooliganism. The Boston Massacre for example was the result of hooligans snowballing redcoats who felt threatened and responded to an enraged crowd. The incident was then used by patriot propogandists to fire up more resistance. So usually there was no clear honest player to begin the revolution.
Those comparing this criminal incident to the American Revolution show they have very little knowledge of the Revolution and the events that led up to it.
Shame, Google is pretty easy to use.
Shame, Google is pretty easy to use.
Robin
.475 A&M Magnum
I don't see people making a direct comparison as much as the Revolution being used metaphorically. But, thats just me, just a "the fog of war" metaphor is used quite a bit and I suspect the fog sets in long before the war.
Robin
Robin
Yes, it does. They rallied for the wrong person, at the wrong time, for the wrong reason in support of a wanted person due to crimes with non-government victims who swore out multiple complaints.
They make the 2nd Amendment crowd look stupid. No different than the “didn du nuffin” ghetto crusaders.
Curmudgeon
.308 Win
Here's what I'm saying:
If this happened 15 miles from my house, I'm not going to show up ready to boogaloo for some stranger on the internet claiming he was red flagged when there is other information pointing to the contrary. Even if some guy from Kansas City chirps in on Reddit saying he just heard from the 2nd cousin of the county sherriff who, despite being tied up in a rapidly escalating mess, took the time to swap text messages with his 2nd cousin. I might show up, see what's happening, try to get a drone in the air to see for myself, talk to local news media off camera for details, etc. But under no circumstances would I insert myself into the situation on information that is insufficient to make me decide becoming my alter-ego boogaloo self is a solid course of action.
Alternatively, if this happened to someone I know and trust, I would likely respond differently.
Curmudgeon
.308 Win
I will say this, and related to what Robin said, but I'm too lazy to scroll back and respond to his post.
Ernesto Miranda was a piece of shit rapist. But he still had rights. And we're reminded of him each time we're reminded of our right to remain silent. Many of the landmark SCOTUS cases were on behalf of absolute garbage "dindu nuffins". But that doesnt diminish our rights.
Note that I have been very clear in regards to his rights under our system of laws. I’ve never once argued this person should’ve been bum rushed in a way that forfeits his normal legal rights. I went way out of my way to stress that in my posts.
I’m specifically addressing the fact that supposed defenders of the 2nd Amendment mobilized (albeit weakly) in his defense during the incident to include multiple threats against the police and a coordinated attack on the local 911 system with no indication that any assault on his rights was happening, beyond disagreement with a law which wasn’t even part of the situation.
I’m specifically addressing the fact that supposed defenders of the 2nd Amendment mobilized (albeit weakly) in his defense during the incident to include multiple threats against the police and a coordinated attack on the local 911 system with no indication that any assault on his rights was happening, beyond disagreement with a law which wasn’t even part of the situation.
kev74
20×102mm Vulcan
So, to speculate even further (since we don't have a lot of facts), if this guy went to his former home (that he still might be paying for) to pick up his socks and underwear, and had words with his ex who may have been agitated, the above charges could be the result. Knowing a few people who have gone through messy divorces from spouses who made up accusations, I'm not ready to treat this guy like Charles Manson.
To further make stuff up, I have no issue with the bystanders. Since no shots were fired, I'm guessing they were bystanders who went to see that things were done on the up and up - no Waco type burn him out, no beating the shit out of a limp body while they scream "stop resisting", and no alligations of assaulting an officer when the guy went peacefully. 'Cause we know that never happens.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
It all depends on if you believe in red flag laws or Domestic violence laws which are one in the same. Many do. You take offense because you are a cop. That is all.
Curmudgeon
.308 Win
Yeah. I was looking at it from a slightly different angle based on what you said about that seemed to have a general "all perps are scumbags" vibe.
This is getting ridiculous now.
Can you directly quote a statement where anyone described him like Charles Manson?
This is fucking bizzaro world.
Nice attempt at a dig on the police for no reason. Thanks for proving my point all along.
You fools know what you want out of this and you’re sticking to it regardless.
I never once came close to expressing myself that way. Only with a heap of ingrained assumptions would one arrive at that conclusion.
Sorry to be abrupt, but how else does one argue against such misconceptions?
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Ok, let me try to explain things another way.
You're the state of California, and you have a million acres of dry tinder you call a forest.
It's going to catch on fire.
Now you can track down some discarded cigarette butt, or drooping power line and point to that as the "reason" for the fire, and pretend you can ignore the dry tinder if only you shut off power to half the state, or prosecute the guy throwing the cigarette out the window, or whatever.
But the truth of the matter is that the reason for the fire is the dry tinder you call a forest, and the fire will happen sooner or later from one cause or another regardless. The problem is the dry tinder, not the cigarette.
You're the state of California, and you have a million acres of dry tinder you call a forest.
It's going to catch on fire.
Now you can track down some discarded cigarette butt, or drooping power line and point to that as the "reason" for the fire, and pretend you can ignore the dry tinder if only you shut off power to half the state, or prosecute the guy throwing the cigarette out the window, or whatever.
But the truth of the matter is that the reason for the fire is the dry tinder you call a forest, and the fire will happen sooner or later from one cause or another regardless. The problem is the dry tinder, not the cigarette.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
You're right, what we are seeing is a fundamental breakdown of a critical facet of society. The public trust in law enforcement.
That is the point. Not whether this guy was good or bad. The point is that (right or wrong) people no longer trust the government to do the right thing (and they have a million reasons not to).
You're also right that this is not "a good thing" generally. It is the first sign of a breakdown of society.
You know how law and order in "the hood" has broken down, because people there don't trust the police and those places have turned into shitholes because of it ? Well, you're seeing it spread, and for the same reasons.
What you don't seem to get is that the only people who can stop it are the government. There is nobody "in charge" of the public reaction. Nobody can put the brakes on it, it's not something you can reason your way out of, it's a force of nature.
I just had to urban dictionary lookup boogaloo.... Thanks.
This is the single post here I mostly align with.
I think if you're willing to go to the wall for a cause you believe in, you need to make sure you have it right or at least you have as much reliable, vetted and accurate information as possible. That's what I was getting at a page or two earlier here.
This episode showed how quickly things can turn into a cluster fuck where no one really knows what's going on and the water is muddy as hell.
I still find it very interesting the independent reactions of so many people who are reaching their moral line in the Sand breaking points all organically and spontaneously are having very strong reactions.
I am just concerned we are picking the wrong incident to make an example of. I still want us to have the righteous moral conviction of knowing we are right. I don't want our side being discredited or turned into villians. The left and media would love nothing more than to use an incident of right wing gun nuts as justification for draconian surveillance programs and gun controls.
kev74
20×102mm Vulcan
Right. Every poor schlep going through a divorce that gets accusations thrown at him is a POS perp. Got it.
And cops are infallible. They have never "taken liberties" with a perp who didn't show them the proper level of deference - especially in a public and embarrassing way.
Trust me, when I attempt a dig at the police, you'll know it. I'm not very subtle. But to think the potential of this guy suffering some kind of abuse for embarrassing the higher-ups isn't a possibility is fantasy land.
Fun story... I've hung out with a few old timer and retired cops who after a few rounds would lament the good old days when they could take a trouble maker or drunk out in the woods somewhere and beat the crap out of them instead of having to arrest them. I'm guessing unsanctioned activities sometimes happen once in a while.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
It doesn't matter if it's "the right incident" or not.
Only that it's the right environment. This and the Bundy ranch incidents are evidence that we are fast approaching that environment.
You will be vilified by the government and in the media no matter how righteous or villainous the guy you choose to defend is, who it is is ultimately irrelevant.
You will not know if it was the right call or not until it's all over and the victors write the history. What would the history of the revolution or civil war have looked like if the other side had won ?