Red Flag standoff in Mahopac

[SomeSoldier]

So, where was everyone in the 2A community years ago, prior to these Red Flag laws? You know, all these years and years and years that guns were being taken form the people.

It is almost like a bandwagon, everyone jumping on board due to a new name and a new law.

Nearly everything in these Red Flag laws have existed for decades. The court system has been taking guns away for a very long time. Please do not confuse this statement with support for this shit; I am just putting out the truth and the reality of what is and what has been.

Honestly I was to young when this shit started. I would have been against it then. Also the age of the internet has allowed for education and communication of these unconstitutional acts.

There is more to this than just where were you before.
Politicians didnt hate the US like they do now. Internet didnt exist. People were pretty much united 20 years ago. Also dont forget boomers, peace, free love and drugs. They didnt give a shit about rights unless it had to do with one of the things mentioned above.

Lots and lots of factors.

 

[Airborneguy]

How will you identify them ?

Or will you just round up everyone who expresses some reservations about the current course of the government and send them for "reeducation" like the Chinese do ?

If you're not willing to do that, your first clue to their identity is likely to be at a crime scene.

I did define them: when they go lone wolf.

I didn’t say “I’ll decide this is a situation for taking action even if I’m wrong I’m right because I said so.”

Lone wolf implies actions being undertaken. Kind of like how a red flag law defines when a red flag incident is underway, yet as we saw here...

 

[Airborneguy]

It *is* a red flag issue, because that's what the people who reacted believed they were responding to.

This couldn't have happened even just a couple of years ago. The introduction of red flag laws is a major reason it became possible.

Just like a self defense situation is based on what the defender *believed* to be the case, not what the reality was. Reaching for a wallet can get you shot if the officer thinks it's a gun, just like responding to a DV call can become a shitstorm if the public thinks it's a red flag.

There are a lot of reasonable things the police can do to prevent this, but I suspect they are going to take @Airborneguy 's approach and just try to crack down on the people responding. That will be like throwing gasoline on a fire.

I just won the lottery fyi, and because I say so, it is so.

 

[spat]

Can “they” at least define their mission beyond “we’ll decide what we want to call a 2nd Amendment job whenever we want and if you don’t like it, it’s your fault”?

You still don't get it.

There is no "they".

It is not a coherent organization. It is not an organization at all.

It is a bunch of individuals, each with their own criteria.

 

[spat]

Repeat after me: THIS WASN’T A RED FLAG INCIDENT.

THEN WHY DID HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE RESPOND TO IT AS IF IT WAS.

That *makes* it a red flag incident.

It doesn't matter what this guy was arrested for. The news isn't the arrest. Hundreds of people are arrested just like him every day and it doesn't mean a thing.

THE RESPONSE to the incident is the news, and it was a response to a perceived red flag incident.

 

[Airborneguy]

You still don't get it.

There is no "they".

It is not a coherent organization. It is not an organization at all.

It is a bunch of individuals, each with their own criteria.

When then those individuals cannot be reasoned with by the police anyway, so they will be dealt with when they become apparent based on their actions at that moment.

There’s zero justification for a lot of what happened here, yet somehow the police are supposed to identify the who and the how to “fix” the void.

I definitely do, as you tagged me to say, take the tact that these types are simply threats, threats that we have always been prepared to deal with and if that’s what it comes to so be it. I will never be the person who succumbs to types of who overload a distant 911 system to prove a point WHEN THIER POINT IS WRONG FROM THE START.

 

[Airborneguy]

THEN WHY DID HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE RESPOND TO IT AS IF IT WAS.

That *makes* it a red flag incident.

It doesn't matter what this guy was arrested for. The news isn't the arrest. Hundreds of people are arrested just like him every day and it doesn't mean a thing.

THE RESPONSE to the incident is the news, and it was a response to a perceived red flag incident.

Because they are fucking idiots. Period, end of story. Nothing they did changes the fact that this WASN’T A RED FLAG.

 

[spat]

So, where was everyone in the 2A community years ago, prior to these Red Flag laws? You know, all these years and years and years that guns were being taken form the people.

It is almost like a bandwagon, everyone jumping on board due to a new name and a new law.

Nearly everything in these Red Flag laws have existed for decades. The court system has been taking guns away for a very long time. Please do not confuse this statement with support for this shit; I am just putting out the truth and the reality of what is and what has been.

Now you're starting to get it.

Things have changed. This incident is a sign of the change.

People put up with a lot for a long time, but more and more people are starting to say "no more".

 

[spat]

Because they are fucking idiots. Period, end of story. Nothing they did changes the fact that this WASN’T A RED FLAG.

No, you are the one who doesn't get it.

Hundreds of people show up *because of news of a red flag incident*.

That is the incident. The people showing up. The guy in the garage is irrelevant. What he did or did not do is irrelevant. What the police did and why is irrelevant.

I don't care if they were arresting him for the JFK assassination, it doesn't matter.

 

[Airborneguy]

Whatever you say. I’m leaving it at that. This is getting tedious.

 

[Airborneguy]

This type of nonsense logic is why I’ve blocked a few people. I really thought you were above that.

 

[spat]

When then those individuals cannot be reasoned with by the police anyway, so they will be dealt with when they become apparent based on their actions at that moment.

There’s zero justification for a lot of what happened here, yet somehow the police are supposed to identify the who and the how to “fix” the void.

I definitely do, as you tagged me to say, take the tact that these types are simply threats, threats that we have always been prepared to deal with and if that’s what it comes to so be it. I will never be the person who succumbs to types of who overload a distant 911 system to prove a point WHEN THIER POINT IS WRONG FROM THE START.

No, the police should absolutely not attempt to "identify the who and the how". That is exactly the wrong approach.

They need to recognize that there is an endless stream of who and how that they can never suppress no matter what resources they throw at it.

The only solution to the problem is to address the *why*.

 

[kev74]

If someone wanted to find out a (hopefully) more true version of what happened with this guy, a FOIL request isn't that hard. There's no charge if you request the records electronically.

I don't think this particular guy matters. It is a symptom of some serious problems which are likely to come to a head sooner rather than later.

 

[spat]

Whatever you say. I’m leaving it at that. This is getting tedious.

That's because the rest of us are having a discussion about the public reaction and you are having a discussion about the arrest.

The arrest is uninteresting. I am sure you see arrests like this one all the time. We never discuss them because without this particular public reaction there wasn't much to discuss.

This is kind of like the Orson Wells War of the Worlds broadcast.

There obviously was no alien invasion, and radio broadcasts happened all the time, but the public reaction was the interesting part.

So here we are all talking about what it means that people were panicking and preparing for war with the martians, and all you can do is keep shouting that "there were no aliens".

 

[Marine Cpl]

So, where was everyone in the 2A community years ago, prior to these Red Flag laws? You know, all these years and years and years that guns were being taken form the people.

It is almost like a bandwagon, everyone jumping on board due to a new name and a new law.

Nearly everything in these Red Flag laws have existed for decades. The court system has been taking guns away for a very long time. Please do not confuse this statement with support for this shit; I am just putting out the truth and the reality of what is and what has been.

Most people aren’t leaders. They are followers. They keep what they feel bottled up and only stand when they see many standing for fear of what others think of them. You see that here in this forum. Many had their thoughts about the NRA but kept quiet until they saw a number they felt comfortable with to allow themselves to stand up too with them.

On a more recent topic which we see developing right before our eyes, many are starting to realize that law enforcement in general (not individuals) aren’t really their friends anymore like in the past. They remain quiet. They don’t want to be labeled as Cop Haters. But you see them liking anti law enforcement posts with no replies of their own or you see them reading the threads. Many times you see 25 people reading but nobody ever responds except people like me. They don’t respond with agreement or disagreements. The fact that they don’t pounce on me says something. Once more people stand up and speak up, they’ll stand.

That’s human nature I guess. Oh. And for the record, I don’t include you in that category of law enforcement not being my friend. There are many guys like you and MrGunsnGear on YouTube but unfortunately, there aren’t enough.

 

[Marine Cpl]

THIS WAS NOT A RED FLAG INCIDENT!!!!

Repeat after me: THIS WASN’T A RED FLAG INCIDENT.

Because they are fucking idiots. Period, end of story. Nothing they did changes the fact that this WASN’T A RED FLAG.

Says you! To others who believe in due process, it is. Whether it’s a textbook red flag or a confiscation without a trial due to Domestic Violence, it’s the same.

To me any confiscation without incarceration is a red flag.

 

[Marine Cpl]

This type of nonsense logic is why I’ve blocked a few people. I really thought you were above that.

You block people that don’t agree with you and lick boots. That’s the jist of it. Sad really.

 

[Twogunwilly]

Yes, that has been the sentiment since day one of this country's founding. Things are changing, the commies have been very successful.
Robin

Now that the greatest generation has dwindled down to few there's nothing stopping them American communism is merely an election away they already have the brainwashed generation >insert tear streaked muddy face emoji<

 

[BDinPutnam]

One thing I will say- I have met with a number of Put County Sheriff's deputies and detectives and they've all been pro-2a and professional and courteous. What that has to do with any of this, I'm not really sure it does, but just saying all I've met were straight shooters and good folks.

 

[Bigfoot]

I have been here long enough to know what threads will turn into a shit show.
For myself, I do not need the aggravation so I stay out of those threads. Or contribute very little to them.
And this would be one of those threads.

I do not think that being a leader or follower really has anything to do with it.
That's probably over thinking things a bit... My 2 cents worth.



EDIT --- I just noticed that the post that I was referring to is now deleted.
So now, at this time, my post above makes no sense... LOL

 

[GOPerfect]

Says you! To others who believe in due process, it is. Whether it’s a textbook red flag or a confiscation without a trial due to Domestic Violence, it’s the same.

To me any confiscation without incarceration is a red flag.

If there was a Red Flag incident, it occurred on a different day, not the day being discussed.

 

[Airborneguy]

One thing I will say- I have met with a number of Put County Sheriff's deputies and detectives and they've all been pro-2a and professional and courteous. What that has to do with any of this, I'm not really sure it does, but just saying all I've met were straight shooters and good folks.

About as much as the 2nd Amendment ever had to do with this situation.

 

[Marine Cpl]

If there was a Red Flag incident, it occurred on a different day, not the day being discussed.

It depends on which version of events you want to believe from the Putnam County Sheriff’s Office. This article below got the sheriff in such a tizzy that he deleted his previous versions of events that were posted on their Facebook page about the shots heard and the response to the shots heard and called these independent journalists who just happen to be LEO’s terrorists.

Afghan vet's standoff with police over red flag laws just broke the Internet

An alleged red flag seizure turned into an armed standoff with a combat vet. And it all went down while the world watched via social media.

www.lawenforcementtoday.com

 

[Jem45472]

I would certainly hope that after passage of the safe act when there were thousands gathered at Albany, there wasn't a squad there eagerly awaiting to "take out" any lone wolfs at a demonstration to oppose unjust laws they were unhappy with.

 

[Pissed Off Patriot]

Fyi, Alex Booth is out of jail on bond.

 

[Acer-m14]

DV should be handled in a totally new way .. lets take the wife beater .. he should be in jail .. and if not a OOP is just a piece of paper
and the local PD or Sheriff should give the female a gun .. with the instructions to shoot his ass ..

don't be like the lady in NJ waiting on her so called permit to have a gun and get kill by a knife in her lawn by the X ..

 

[speedkills27]

The only fools are the ones who think that the problem is the people reacting to this.

Whether this guy is a martyr or a scumbag is irrelevant. The important part is that the government in general (and the police in particular in this case) has lost the trust of the people.

The politicians have created the problem, and the police by and large perpetuate it. If neither group does anything to reverse course this will get worse.

The more the rich and powerful are allowed to flaunt the law, and the more the law appears to be arbitrary and unjust, the less respect people have for it. We are nearing a tipping point where even good people will only follow the law because they fear the consequences, and not because they respect it.

What you see in this instance is the result of hundreds of individual people deciding that they no longer trust the system. Each one of them is a potential "lone wolf terrorist". Any of them could decide that the next one of these incidents is "the last straw" and they might decide that the appropriate action is to hunt down the responsible party and dispense their own justice, because they have no faith in "the system" any longer.

You can belittle the people who reacted all you want, and you can label them whatever you want to, but the bottom line is that they are out there, and the worse things get the more of them there are.

So, basically there are 2 ways this can go, either the politicians or the police can put the brakes on the insanity, or they will eventually have to deal with a world where random people just come out of the woodwork and start killing them.

Its also getting to a point were there are two separate versions of laws in places. "Sanctuary" cities, be it for guns or illegal immigrants, means that we know what the law says but we dont care. Thats getting into a dangerous territory having different laws for different people. Are we starting to see the very early stages of the break up of the USA as we know it????????

 

[Airborneguy]

DV should be handled in a totally new way .. lets take the wife beater .. he should be in jail .. and if not a OOP is just a piece of paper
and the local PD or Sheriff should give the female a gun .. with the instructions to shoot his ass ..

don't be like the lady in NJ waiting on her so called permit to have a gun and get kill by a knife in her lawn by the X ..

I wish. Too bad judges and politicians don’t agree.

 

[Defilade]

 

[Marine Cpl]