Report: Dearborn Cops Tracked Open Carriers Via Social Media Before Police Station Arrests
- Thread starter minderasr
- Start date
Oh "they're" watching? In that case, to the watchers:
Right here buddy
I hope y'all get hemorrhoids.
Right here buddy
I hope y'all get hemorrhoids.
C3D
.308 Win
I'd be watching those idiots too . . . walking with slung rifles and ski masks into a police station they're dangerous.
Sounds like they were watching the right people.
GuyMontag
.44 mag
The Constitution is not an a la carte menu.
The Consitution says nothing about monitoring publicly available information, no matter how hard you try to claim it does. And as usual, poor example to hinge your anti-law enforcement beliefs on. Right guys, right tactics, perfectly legal execution.
They're lucky they weren't killed, probably mostly because the "surveillance" revealed them to be bumbling idiots.
They're lucky they weren't killed, probably mostly because the "surveillance" revealed them to be bumbling idiots.
Patriot
.308 Win
I understand these guys were trying to make a point. I also understand that there supposedly is no law that makes what they did illegal. What I have a problem with is the sheer stupidity of their execution. Let's analyze the situation:
1. Ski Masks
2. Body Armour
3. Weapons
Any logical person would consider these 3 facts and see these guys as a threat. What happens if you do that at a mall, or a church, or a school? You would get the same response as these idiots got at the police station. I have no doubt that every person on this forum would think they were a threat if you saw them walk into a mall, school, or restaurant while you were there. I'm sorry if this is not a popular opinion, don't really care, but these guys are idiots and I have no problem if they are convicted on all charges that are actual laws. Disturbing the peace, resisting arrest, etc. Rights are rights, I understand that, but use some common sense. Your stupid actions have consequences. These are two idiots that I just can't get behind. They were looking for a response, I think they got more of a response than they bargained for.
1. Ski Masks
2. Body Armour
3. Weapons
Any logical person would consider these 3 facts and see these guys as a threat. What happens if you do that at a mall, or a church, or a school? You would get the same response as these idiots got at the police station. I have no doubt that every person on this forum would think they were a threat if you saw them walk into a mall, school, or restaurant while you were there. I'm sorry if this is not a popular opinion, don't really care, but these guys are idiots and I have no problem if they are convicted on all charges that are actual laws. Disturbing the peace, resisting arrest, etc. Rights are rights, I understand that, but use some common sense. Your stupid actions have consequences. These are two idiots that I just can't get behind. They were looking for a response, I think they got more of a response than they bargained for.
GuyMontag
.44 mag
Airborne, I think these guys are idiots for their methods, but the other side of the coin is their activity is NOT illegal. It's also pretty clear that there's an agenda being played out here by the cops, they're scared of open carriers and are going out of their way to impede, arguably purposely attempting to restrict constitutionally protected activity. That's as scary as the idiots bringing weapons to the station in my view.
I'd be scared of these guys too. Honestly, they'd have definitely been shot had they pulled this crap where I work. Even in a place where this type of nonsense is legal, they'd be shot more often than not.
This isn't "open carry" we're talking about here. This is posing as people who are imminently about to conduct an attack. From what I've read, the only reason they weren't shot was that because of the surveillance being conducted, the cops knew they weren't a real threat.
How anyone can defend this is mindboggling. But I guess I should be used to this by now.
This isn't "open carry" we're talking about here. This is posing as people who are imminently about to conduct an attack. From what I've read, the only reason they weren't shot was that because of the surveillance being conducted, the cops knew they weren't a real threat.
How anyone can defend this is mindboggling. But I guess I should be used to this by now.
GuyMontag
.44 mag
Airborne, given the fact that we know the cops were surveilling these guys, your suggestion of an "imminent attack" is dubious at best. You know fully well what the cops did these clowns, they were NEVER in any danger. Again, I'm not endorsing the practice these guys engaged in, but I HIGHLY doubt these guys just decided to be confrontational on a whim. Perhaps I'm mistaken and they elected to be confrontational, but I'd bet there's a LOT of negative history between this department and these guys.
I didn't suggest an imminent attack, on the contrary, I said I read that the cops knew they weren't a threat, which is why they didn't get shot.
What I did say was they they are dressing up to mimic people who are about to conduct an attack. This isn't "open carry rights protesting" of the common "gotcha" video nonsense. This is dangerous on many levels, and keeping track people like that is definitely an appropriate role of the police, and legal.
What I did say was they they are dressing up to mimic people who are about to conduct an attack. This isn't "open carry rights protesting" of the common "gotcha" video nonsense. This is dangerous on many levels, and keeping track people like that is definitely an appropriate role of the police, and legal.
GuyMontag
.44 mag
Airborne, I'm firm believer in those who go looking for trouble and find it, typically deserve it. Picking a fight with the cops is beyond stupid, and you'll get no argument regarding how easily they could have been shot. My gut tells me there's a backstory to this scenario we're not aware of, but perhaps these guys are just that crazy. You wouldn't catch me pulling that kind of act, I don't fight battles that I know are not winnable, or likely to get me killed for nothing. 
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
I really don't know what they were thinking. The only reason they are alive is because they did exactly what they were told .It may be legal, but it was borderline suicide stupid. Im all for open carry , but in this case the police have no idea of what they are facing , its not a normal everyday occurrence that armed masked men in body armor go ANYWHERE let alone a police station.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
""I said I read that the cops knew they weren't a threat, which is why they didn't get shot.""
They were masked, No? Im not sure how they could know for sure it was those guys, and that they were not a real threat.
They were masked, No? Im not sure how they could know for sure it was those guys, and that they were not a real threat.
I just read that they knew who they were. Iguess between the MO and maybe what they were wearing, it was obvious enough. They're still incredibly lucky.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
I wonder how this will play out. Will the charges be dropped?
GuyMontag
.44 mag
DA had better be wise enough to not let these officers get deposed, because it's not going to end well for them if put on the stand. A good defense attorney will BBQ their asses over their phony claim of duress or threat to harm given they knew EXACTLY who these clowns were, and their LAWFUL intentions to Open Carry.
Glenn B
.308 Win
With all due respect: Please read what you wrote and think about it long and hard. You are in LE and have just admitted they definitely would have been shot where you work. Are you saying without warning, no commands to stop and or no command not to move, no attempt to disarm them, without an attempted overt move on their part that could be seen as a threat to life or limb, with no questions asked, they definitely would have been shot where you work! Bad thing to say or write in public. It could bite you in the arse later in your career if you ever are involved in a questionable shooting, especially if you kill someone.I'd be scared of these guys too. Honestly, they'd have definitely been shot had they pulled this crap where I work. Even in a place where this type of nonsense is legal, they'd be shot more often than not.
If it happens in the future, that a guy walks into your department, legally or illegally carrying a firearm slung on his shoulder and wearing a cold weather head covering (during cold weather) and his buddy with him is wearing body armor and not noticeably armed, and you happen to know they were coming in non-violent protest but yet you shoot and kill one or two of them, you had best hope you have one hell of an excellent lawyer. You had also better hope that the video they were taking was not live streamed. Could they be perceived as a potential threat; yes definitely so. Were they actually threatening anyone? Was there probable cause to believe they were an imminent threat? No to those last two questions, at least not based on what I have read about them, and it has been reported that what they were doing is legal. So, could you legally shoot them???
Is there another set of actions you could take? Could you legally command them to comply with lawful orders to stop, not to move, and then disarm the one and pat down both of them - and detain and interview them to determine why they were there armed? Yes, you could do that. Could you legally start blasting away as soon as they came in like that - especially when you had knowledge beforehand that they were not intent on violence and were staging a protest, no sir you could not do so legally even in this commie like, constitution hating, state of NY. If you believe otherwise, in my opinion, you had best seek legal guidance on how to legally act in such situations.
Bushmaster
.308 Win
Dearborn Michigan, Muslim land !!!
I absolutely stand by my statement. If the same set of facts happened at my stationshouse while I was on the desk, and myself and others elected to fire on them, especting an imminent attack, we'd be justified and 100% supporter by our leadership.
Bushmaster
.308 Win
I don't care if they are watching me, I own guns and do nothing wrong. Hope they watch the ones who do wrong. To go out and provoke a problem to prove a point is wrong (stupid).
GuyMontag
.44 mag
Airborne, the actual facts betray your narrative, you ought to stop with this silly BS about feeling threatened, enough already. We both know exactly what happened, the cops decided to screw with these guys, KNOWING fully well WHO they were, WHAT their intentions were, and WHEN they were planning on engaging in constitutionally protected activity.
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to learn this Dept. is also using Stingray to circumvent those pesky 4th Amendment concerns, and had quite the file on these guys. I need not remind you that simple possession of a firearm DOES NOT translate to criminal activity, so blasting these clowns might not be as cut and dry as you're suggesting.
You'd very likely be headed for the 3-Bar Motel if you shot these clowns under the circumstances of this incident. It is good to know that there's no crime in Dearborn for the cops to have to worry about, and that they can spend their time cruising facebook instead of having to worry about keeping the streets safe.
Bushmaster
.308 Win
You'll find that the rate of crime in Dearborn, MI averages 50% higher than the rest of Michigan while the rate of crime on a national scale is 21% higher than. You'll find that the occurrence of violent crime in Dearborn, MI is 10% lower than the average rate of crime in Michigan and 1% higher than the rest of the nation. Similarly, crime involving property stands 64% higher than the remainder of the state of Michigan and 24% higher than the nation's average. Both of these statistics relate to how safe residents and businesses are while performing everyday activities in the Dearborn, MI area.
Something smells fishy to me. Either 1) these guys were epically stupid trying to make a point, or 2) this is a set up by the anti gun police chief.
If stupidity is the answer then they should count their lucky stars they weren't shot. Legal or not who goes into a police station with a ski mask pulled down, a rifle and a pistol? Actions have consequences (see kapernich - he had right to say what he believes but now effectively out of NFL). IMO monitoring them on social media is irrelevant. How are the cops to know that the posts weren't a setup? While remote it's not beyond the scope of reality. And the fact they weren't shot will only give losers like fat al another reason to scream discrimination.
Alternately could be a set up. If charges dropped and guys set free that's the most likely scenario but my money on stupidity.
If stupidity is the answer then they should count their lucky stars they weren't shot. Legal or not who goes into a police station with a ski mask pulled down, a rifle and a pistol? Actions have consequences (see kapernich - he had right to say what he believes but now effectively out of NFL). IMO monitoring them on social media is irrelevant. How are the cops to know that the posts weren't a setup? While remote it's not beyond the scope of reality. And the fact they weren't shot will only give losers like fat al another reason to scream discrimination.
Alternately could be a set up. If charges dropped and guys set free that's the most likely scenario but my money on stupidity.
Bushmaster
.308 Win
This above... And a setup without guns drawn could be a bomb under vest... Like I said STUPID point to make by those idiots.
Bushmaster
.308 Win
Those idiots must be 2A liberals LOL
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
I wonder if the traffic stop was bull shit like they said. I wonder if any dash/body cam evidence exists.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
It was/is legal to carry , but this is abnormal behavior. If everybody walked around open carrying with body armor then I could concede the point that the police overreacted. If somebody walks into a playground with your kids in there with a mask body armor rifle and pistol You might get a little tense too.
Some people just need to understand the legal concept that "rights" aren't absolute, they never have been.
Quite frankly, this isn't even a "rights" issue to begin with.
It is legal to open carry. It is not legal to carry a firearm and create conditions which are intentionally designed to instigate, create fear, possible disorder, etc. The concept is no different than walking down the street. It is perfectly legal to walk on the side of the road. It is not legal to walk down the middle of the street, impeding cars.
Openly carrying a firearm while minding one's own business is not a valid reason for fear. Dressing the part of an attacker while doing the same most certainly is, by any intelligent measure.
The fact that "open carry" is legal does not deter from the other aspects of their stupidity.
One doesn't have to support nonsense like this to remain "logically pure" on the matter. Mind-boggling.
Quite frankly, this isn't even a "rights" issue to begin with.
It is legal to open carry. It is not legal to carry a firearm and create conditions which are intentionally designed to instigate, create fear, possible disorder, etc. The concept is no different than walking down the street. It is perfectly legal to walk on the side of the road. It is not legal to walk down the middle of the street, impeding cars.
Openly carrying a firearm while minding one's own business is not a valid reason for fear. Dressing the part of an attacker while doing the same most certainly is, by any intelligent measure.
The fact that "open carry" is legal does not deter from the other aspects of their stupidity.
One doesn't have to support nonsense like this to remain "logically pure" on the matter. Mind-boggling.
I'd immediately draw my firearm and initiate contact with them, the proceed as necessary. Which means at the slightest movement of their weapons, I'd shoot them. And it would all be 100% legal.