Savage Axis XP scope package or Ruger American?

[Cleck]

So the time is approaching for me to buy my first bolt action rifle. Asked for a bunch of money/gc's to F&S for Christmas, as that's all I really want. Decided that I'm going 308 as I start deer hunting probably next year. The trip @NirvanaFan and I had to Colorado made me wanna do it.

I've been doing a lot of research and really had settled on the Remington 783 until I read a few more reviews and opinions on their build quality and groupings. That led me to look more at the Savage Axis and Ruger American offerings. Reason why I limited myself to those was because of price, which I wanna keep at $350 for a total package, for now. I may upgrade the scope later, as I'm aware that the scopes that are packaged aren't the greatest.

My options are this:

Savage Axis XP - comes with a 3-9x40 scope package, doesn't have Accutrigger (but I've heard I don't need it), costs about $320

Ruger American - no scope but does have an adjustable trigger and costs $300.

My thinking, and both sides of it - buy the Axis, deal with the scope, upgrade it later. I probably won't be shooting anything longer than 300 yards (probably not more than 200) but I'd like the ability to reach out that far. When my AR is done, I'll really only wanna use it to 100 yards. I've seen factory 3-9 scopes and am not really that impressed with them and every review on every package says, "replace that shit asafp".

Other side - buy the Ruger w/ no scope, save a few bucks for a possibly better gun, save up for a slightly better scope (looking at Nikon and Vortex offerings), but I don't need anything crazy, just better glass, and maybe a 4-12 or something similar. I'll spend less on the gun and can put that towards a better scope right away, but I won't be able to really "shoot it" until I do get a scope (and rings).

I did read the post @swilliams made about her Savage, so that made me pause a bit, but nothing made me pause more than the review I read about the 783, which basically said it was an ok gun but he had a hard time getting good groupings with it.

Thoughts? I'm not gonna buy a 700 or even a Mossberg Patriot, just because those are above my price range. Although...a Patriot scope package is like $470, more or less what I'd spend on a gun and scope (I'm not looking for baller glass), but I don't know what kind of scope it is, and I still want something more than 3-9x40

 

[NirvanaFan]

Does F&S sell used guns? A used firearm is always an option if you'd love something else but price is holding you back.

 

[dsdmmat]

When I think bolt action rifle I think 1000 dollars minimum for the rifle and glass. There are a few rifles that will do what you want at the price you are looking to do it for. Of the two you mentioned the Savage gets my vote. I bought my kid the Savage Axis you are looking at back in 2013 and it does everything it is supposed to do. The only real negative I have head about those is people seem to be breaking the catch on the front of the magazine. It is plastic and there is a potential for breakage, just be aware. At the same timeframe I bought my boy the 308 I picked up a Marlin XL7 rifle in 30-06 it is also a nice rifle for those on a budget.

Since you have already ruled out a 700 there is no need to go into that. however sometimes Gander has a .308 Remington 700 SPS tactical for under 400 bucks. When you have all the money in your hot little hands take a peak at the big box store specials before you spend it. You may be glad you did.

On the scope front, Nikon has come out with their Buck Masters II in 4-12x40 it is a pretty decent scope for the 130 bucks you can find it going for.

 

[Cleck]

Nikon has come out with their Buck Masters II in 4-12x40

Funny you say that, it was one of the scopes I was targeting. I'm not looking to ring steel at 500+ yards, so something like this would work for me. Better than the package and still a decent quality with a good manufacturer backing it up.

When I has all the cash and cards, I'll definitely take a look at their used guns, if they have any. If there's not, I'll go take a look at Gander and if there's something good, I'll sell any GC's for straight cash and go at it that way. I have no problem shooting a used gun, especially for my first. If someone here was selling the right gun, I'd do the same thing.

I'm really open to options. I just spend all day on the interwebz, so I am constantly deal hunting and reading reviews.

 

[99cummins]

I have a savage axis in .270 that came with the scope. Would like to upgrade the scope at some point but I don't think it's a bad setup for the price. I don't really hunt. Mainly kill things that need killing and it works well for that.

 

[meketrefe]

I have been buying budget rifles and working with them for re-barreling projects for quite some time:

Axis is a very good value for the dollar but at some point you will have to replace the stock and scope at a minimum.
Yet in the budget department report the most consistent average and a huge factor is due to the consistency of the
savage factory barrels. The axis I will also need some trigger tuning that is an easy DIY project unless you buy the
Axis II that now comes with the outrigger.
Another advantage is that the axis shares the barrels with the time and battle tested Savage 10 action. Also the bolt
heads that can be swapped for different calibers w/o buying additional complete bolts that are expensive.

The Ruger is a great value but the consistency in the accuracy is not there yet. It doesn't mean they cannot be accurate but
they do not have the consistency in barrel making savage does. Savage are years ahead on accurate rifle budget making.
Some people report great results while some others cannot group 2MOA.
The bolt has 3 lugs so it has a shorter travel but if you want to change calibers that use a different bolt head you
need to replace the entire bolt vs. in the savage that is just the bolt head.
The stock is also a tupperware quality that at some point has to go. not sure about how many aftermarket options
one has being a relatively new action.

I would seriously consider a Savage 10 action where you have the XP hunter possibly for as low as $420-$430 plus perhaps a
seson discount or rebate and many still come with a Nikon scope that alone is a $120 value. That is a scope you can actually keep for the
average shooting. These with the plastic stock still not ideal but the plastic stock on this models is actually better
than the average including Remington. It is harder and stiffer and in some models it has steel pillars and can
also be bedded that is a simple DIY fun project. not the ideal stock solution but a bit better than the average with
some TLC for those folks on a budget that do not mind doing a few upgrades on their own.
The advantage is that this action along with a remington 700 action are the most popular on the planet so down
the road you will have all sort of aftermarket options and support for upgrades and what not.

Otherwise I would get the axis.

Regarding any reliability concerns you will hear issues about any specific rifle at some point but any
of the rifles mentioned here have been pretty solid, pretty reliable. They all come with warranty anyway but
rarely will be needed.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

When I think bolt action rifle I think 1000 dollars minimum for the rifle and glass. .

WOW! All the bolt guns i want are like $2k plus and NO glass. (The rpr is $1200 and i thought of that)

All the glass i want for my bolt gun are like $2.5k and up.

Maybe im just a snob......

 

[dsdmmat]

WOW! All the bolt guns i want are like $2k plus and NO glass. (The rpr is $1200 and i thought of that)

All the glass i want for my bolt gun are like $2.5k and up.

Maybe im just a snob......

I said minimum....

 

[Phauxtoe]

can these rifles be upgraded, are they modular at all?
is the Ruger an m77?
why are they so cheap?

 

[meketrefe]

can these rifles be upgraded, are they modular at all?
is the Ruger an m77?
why are they so cheap?

Are they modular? No. ...still if you have a barrel nut system it is possible for many people to re-barrel. Savage started this
and now everyone is doing it because it reduces costs but more importantly, it is easier to deliver a more accurate chamber.


is the Ruger an m77? The ruger has now the hawkeye that is based in the M77 that is nothing but another version of a Mauser action
style like countless other brands. They also use the same baseline in the Ruger gunsite.


why are they so cheap? We can summarize like this:
- Simple tubular actions that are broached and then with minimum machining. The axis is actually pretty strong as a result.
- Mass produced, Hammer forged barrels and other methods to reduce costs.
- Used casting parts whenever possible.
- Plastic stocks. most of them garbage but they might serve the average purpose / deer hunter.
- Cost efficient manufacturing.
- Bare minimum QC so that is where getting good at manufacturing at low cost is key and tricky. Savage is decades ahead
of everyone on this king of rifle making. that includes making cost effective barrels that are consistent and where others
are struggling. hammer forged barrels might take many years to get right mass produced to provide comparable consistency
to button or cut rifling.

I hope this helps.

 

[Blimey]

Pretty sure I saw that do right now for $270 at field and stream after $50. See if that sale is still going.

 

[Catskillkid]

Remington 700 fan here. Mine was a gift from my uncle who bought it used at a gun show in Wyoming. Same uncle also recently purchased a Ruger American in .308, put a Leupold scope on it and is pulling in deer and elk all over the west, so clearly it's a fine rifle. Having said that my family has a lot of Savage rifles that are tough and accurate as hell though they're mostly in varmint calibers. For what it's worth one of my favorite rifles to shoot is an old Savage chambered in .222 (it's not an Axis though...not sure exactly what model it is). Honestly, I don't think you can go wrong with either manufacturer.

 

[swilliams]

I never did finalize anything with the Savage. Didn't hunt this year because my husband's uncle passed away after a struggle with cancer, and just too busy with house and kids. I was planning on doing something about it after Christmas. Will keep you posted. I've never heard of this happening with a Savage, for what that's worth.

My dad has the Axis. He loves it.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

I said minimum....

Bwah ha ha! My min is nearly $5k......NOW i realize why i dont have a bolt gun.,,,,,

 

[Silverado1]

Anyone have the Axis 2 Hardwood? Buds has them for $400 with a Weaver Kaspa 3-9, I've been considering buying one for a beater rifle.

 

[MilesTeg]

I would go for an axis 2 if you want to stay with a budget rifle.

If you want to take one more step up from that.
Savage 110
Tikka's
Begera (I just picked up one and love the thing)

 

[Cleck]

WOW! All the bolt guns i want are like $2k plus and NO glass. (The rpr is $1200 and i thought of that)

Just because the first one I'm looking at isn't expensive, doesn't mean I'm not a snob too, I just am realistic about what I can afford to start shooting with. Trust me, I'd love something better than what I have listed, but I'm not competition or long range shooting regularly, so I don't need a $1000 bolt gun and $2000 scope to get into it.

 

[meketrefe]

Anyone have the Axis 2 Hardwood? Buds has them for $400 with a Weaver Kaspa 3-9, I've been considering buying one for a beater rifle.

I would not get the savage II for $400 and instead a legendary savage 11/10 action for $430-$440 that comes with the
nikon scope in some XP models.
just because of the savage 10 you have huge aftermarket support for everything.
The nice thing about the axis is still shares the same barrels and bolt heads but the savage 10 packages are just
about the best out of the box deals one can get for a budget rifle on an action that is one of the most popular
actions in the world.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

Just because the first one I'm looking at isn't expensive, doesn't mean I'm not a snob too, I just am realistic about what I can afford to start shooting with. Trust me, I'd love something better than what I have listed, but I'm not competition or long range shooting regularly, so I don't need a $1000 bolt gun and $2000 scope to get into it.

yup. i hear you . that is why i do not have a bolt gun.

i guess you should ask yourself what do you want the bolt gun to do. this is what i asked myself. the way i see it is i have Ar15 that shoot about .60 inches at 100. (a bit bigger with me on the trigger. for tiny groups i make my buddy shoot my gun). so, based on the fact that my groups are .15-.20 bigger than my buddy AND the cost i figure i may as well wait on the bolt gun.

my style of shooting is at steel plates. 3 gun or DMR style....not prone no movement tiny group paper punching. this is another consideration on how i buy.

i am interested in a bolt gun that produces 1 ragged hole......no fliers.

my AR15 already produces groups smaller than i can shoot.

 

[Cleck]

I'm going more for "dead bodies" over MOA. If it's 1 inch or .25 in groupings at 100-200yd, that's still a dead body in my eyes. Yeah, the more inaccurate it is, the more likely I'll miss the heart on the deer and hit something else, but if it's a SHTF situation and I got bodies coming up my driveway or up on me, all I wanna see is a drop.

As I have it longer, I'll upgrade parts here and there to improve reliability and accuracy (stock, trigger, scope), but out of the box all I want it to do is ring steel and get me on paper. I can dial it in for there. When our father's started hunting, it's not like they had the most expensive hunting rifles either, and they still managed to bring home a few every year.

 

[Cleck]

My final goal with my AR and a rifle is to have good enough glass that the AR is dead accurate to 100, the rifle probably about 200. I can achieve that with practice and time.

 

[Cleck]

The more I read though, y'all making me lean towards the Savage. Can't argue with a time-tested product, even if it's entry level. Like you said, they have the process down and have been doing it longer.

 

[Cleck]

I gotta say though, with some time and money spent, this rifle would look really awesome and have some nice upgrades:

 

[Phauxtoe]

Two things needed for a great gun...
Good Glass
Good trigger

FLIERS are either the shooter or Shitty ammo!

 

[dsdmmat]

Bwah ha ha! My min is nearly $5k......NOW i realize why i dont have a bolt gun.,,,,,

Well I can get my mission done for around 1K. I have spent 4K on a rifle (LRB M25) before glass and it didn't do anything my 2K (with Glass) M1A couldn't do. I am done spending stupid money on things that give me no gain over what I have. I learned the hard way and don't need to relearn the lesson.


If I want a custom rifle I will spend 4oo bucks for a 700 receiver assembly (bolt and trigger), 300 for a barrel, 250 for a stock, 100 for the small parts needed, 250 for machining an chambering and have a great rifle (this year's 35 Remington project) Then pick out a Nikon scope, base and rings and then get into load development. The Savage I just picked up for 650 (had a Nikon Monarch and rings laying around) is quite capable of getting my mission done without adding any additional funds.


I have a night force (got it in 1997 for 850 bucks) for on my 308 and it is a great scope but, I can spend 600-800 on a Nikon Monarch or Vortex and get the same performance.

In the end it comes down to what you think is a good value for your hard earned cash. For my money 1-2K is all the value I assign to a custom rifle with glass.

 

[dsdmmat]

I gotta say though, with some time and money spent, this rifle would look really awesome and have some nice upgrades:

I saw that rifle chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor down at Herb Phillipson's in Watertown minus the scope the price tag wa 999.00. Was tempted but the Savage Model 10 sitting right next to it cost me 650 chambered in the same round, took it out last weekend and shot 1/2 MOA with factory rounds (Federal American Eagle). That in my book is a good rifle at a great price.

 

[Cleck]

Definitely agree. Was just looking ahead to stock upgrade options, and this one rings in at $900 or so, and that's the price of a 700 and a good scope. Everyone will say, "Shoulda bought x rifle in the first place!" which may be true, but I don't like waiting, lol. Plus, I'm a sucker for magazine and stock upgrades. Function > form for me, but shoot now > shoot better later also, lol. It's all fun. Buy a car now, upgrade it later and over time, rather than save up all that money spent for something someone else already worked on.

I'm still looking at that scope upgrade though, it seems like a hell of a deal for $140 and I found another site that gave suggestions for scope mount and a bipod that works well with that rifle. I have parts picked out and plans all set for a rifle I don't even know when or if I'm getting yet

 

[meketrefe]

If you get into the next segment the value of the 10FCP and Predator Hunter (not the predator XP models) is hard to beat.
5R heavy and fluted barrels, their accustock all for $600 or so, you don't have a to touch a thing to get well below MOA guaranteed.

Savage® Arms Model 10 FCP-SR Tactical Bolt-Action Rifle : Cabela's

you have these FCP in 20 and 24 inch barrels.

Also look at this one that is one of the previous versions with the HS stock. this is a 24" Heavy
barrel but virtually the same that was issued to the PNP counter terrorism sniper teams
with the difference theirs has a threaded muzzle and recessed cut for the supressor.

more here...
PNP-SAF .308 SNIPER

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/603781704

Forget about looks and if you want to invest a bit more those are hard to beat.

In a hunter package the Bergara B14 based on the Remington Action for below $700 gives all the features only
found in $2K-$3K rifles. The Bergara will go up in price soon so even if you don't shoot it you will make money.

B14

All the above leave the Remington 700 SPS and tikka packages in the dust in terms of value and accuracy.

One doesn't need complex formulas to get amazing value and accuracy w/o more expense and complications
if one is smart when shopping and at prices the working man can afford.

So take advantage of the testing and study that has already been done for you.

 

[dsdmmat]

Definitely agree. Was just looking ahead to stock upgrade options, and this one rings in at $900 or so, and that's the price of a 700 and a good scope. Everyone will say, "Shoulda bought x rifle in the first place!" which may be true, but I don't like waiting, lol. Plus, I'm a sucker for magazine and stock upgrades. Function > form for me, but shoot now > shoot better later also, lol. It's all fun. Buy a car now, upgrade it later and over time, rather than save up all that money spent for something someone else already worked on.

I'm still looking at that scope upgrade though, it seems like a hell of a deal for $140 and I found another site that gave suggestions for scope mount and a bipod that works well with that rifle. I have parts picked out and plans all set for a rifle I don't even know when or if I'm getting yet

The model 10FCP has an accutrigger, accustock and a detachable box magazine. If you really like that Model 10 BA take a look at the 10FCP.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

My final goal with my AR and a rifle is to have good enough glass that the AR is dead accurate to 100, the rifle probably about 200. I can achieve that with practice and time.

but this can all be done with an AR15....the upside is it is an auto loader

In the end it comes down to what you think is a good value for your hard earned cash. For my money 1-2K is all the value I assign to a custom rifle with glass.

exactly. that is why "no bolt gun for eddie"

took it out last weekend and shot 1/2 MOA with factory rounds (Federal American Eagle). That in my book is a good rifle at a great price.

again, you can get the same results out of an AR15 (i realize you need an AR308 to shoot 6.5 creed)....with the added bonus it is an auto loader......