Secret Service Dropping .357 Sig

[Marine Cpl]

The Secret Service is switching guns and getting a new type of ammo

 

[Deplorable Me]

Hopefully LEO trade ins.

 

[Podmonkey]

Cost cutting measure?

 

[Marine Cpl]

Cost cutting measure?

I think other than slightly better barrier penetration, the .357 Sig does the same job as the 9mm on a body. Both will penetrate within 12 to 14 inches and both will expand about the same.

 

[Podmonkey]

I think other than slightly better barrier penetration, the .357 Sig does the same job as the 9mm on a body. Both will penetrate within 12 to 14 inches and both will expand about the same.

I am not going to get too hung up on the numbers because numbers only tell part of the story. From what I have read the .357 is one of the best barrier penetrating pistol rounds out there. But you give up some capacity. Especially for LE pr agency use capacity is very important.
Mostly though I think this is more about moving to a cheaper, lighter gun. In the case of the 19 In also think more easily concealed.
Glock practically gives guns away to agencies and they are easier to maintain on top of that.
The P229 is a fine pistol but so is the Glock 19.
I am not sure what a 47 is. If it uses a 17 barrel on a 19x/45 frame......... isn't that just a Glock 17 in total then?

 

[Marine Cpl]

I am not going to get too hung up on the numbers because numbers only tell part of the story. From what I have read the .357 is one of the best barrier penetrating pistol rounds out their. But you give up some capacity. Especially for LE pr agency use capacity is very important.
Mostly though I think this is more about moving to a cheaper, lighter gun. In the case of the 19 In also think more easily concealed.
Glock practically gives guns away to agencies and they are easier to maintain on top of that.
The P229 is a fine pistol but so is the Glock 19.
I am not sure what a 47 is. If it uses a 17 barrel on a 19x/45 frame......... isn't that just a Glock 17 in total then?

Recoil too. While controllable in full size for most it is not as controllable for most in a subcompact for off duty or undercover duty.

 

[Podmonkey]

Recoil too. While controllable in full size for most it is not as controllable for most in a subcompact for off duty or undercover duty.

I have never shot a 26 so I couldn't say. I find the 19 to be a very flat shooting pistol.
I did shoot a couple mags through a P320 compact and I really liked it. Surprised it wasn't also considered.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I have never shot a 26 so I couldn't say. I find the 19 to be a very flat shooting pistol.

The 26 to me felt just slightly more than the 19. Not much. I’ve never shot a 26 sized in .40 but I have in whatever number it is that has the 19 frame and that was pretty stout compared to the 19. I could imagine what it would bd like in a 2 fingered gun with a .357 at the size of a 26. I probably ( Just speaking for myself ) wouldn’t be able to hit shit during rapid fire.

 

[71velle]

The G27 is the 40 cal version of the 26 and for me is a handful. I dont have the strongest hands. 357 is a strange caliber to shoot the recoil feels about the same as 40 but the blast is much greater making you thing the recoil is heavier. I have read that the 357 bullets will sometimes fragment, also over penetration can be a real problem. 357 has the cool factor but I think I would choose 40 over the 357, since it makes a bigger hole.

 

[Podmonkey]

The G27 is the 40 cal version of the 26 and for me is a handful. I dont have the strongest hands. 357 is a strange caliber to shoot the recoil feels about the same as 40 but the blast is much greater making you thing the recoil is heavier. I have read that the 357 bullets will sometimes fragment, also over penetration can be a real problem. 357 has the cool factor but I think I would choose 40 over the 357, since it makes a bigger hole.

I wouldn't choose either, if I felt the need for something more than 9mm I would step up to 10mm. Or maybe .357 Magnum.

 

[Airborneguy]

There’s no good reason to carry anything other than 9mm, especially when uniformity and economy of scale contracts are part of the equation.

 

[Darth]

The 26 to me felt just slightly more than the 19. Not much. I’ve never shot a 26 sized in .40 but I have in whatever number it is that has the 19 frame and that was pretty stout compared to the 19. I could imagine what it would bd like in a 2 fingered gun with a .357 at the size of a 26. I probably ( Just speaking for myself ) wouldn’t be able to hit shit during rapid fire.

G19 in .40 is G23.

G26 in .40 us G27

G26 in .357Sig is G33

 

[Edwardteach72]

I am not going to get too hung up on the numbers because numbers only tell part of the story. From what I have read the .357 is one of the best barrier penetrating pistol rounds out there. But you give up some capacity. Especially for LE pr agency use capacity is very important.
Mostly though I think this is more about moving to a cheaper, lighter gun. In the case of the 19 In also think more easily concealed.
Glock practically gives guns away to agencies and they are easier to maintain on top of that.
The P229 is a fine pistol but so is the Glock 19.
I am not sure what a 47 is. If it uses a 17 barrel on a 19x/45 frame......... isn't that just a Glock 17 in total then?

The glock 47 is essentially a glock 45 frame with a glock 17 mos slide (this was requested by the agency)

 

[Marine Cpl]

I think I would choose 40 over the 357, since it makes a bigger hole

 

[71velle]

Man that 9mm looks tiny compared to the 45...

 

[E the massive]

.357 Sig sounds better.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I do not think your vital organs would be able to tell the difference.

 

[E the massive]

Don't plan on having my vitals interact with the Secret Service.

 

[fresch]

Have a few, but give me the 45 or a 41 mag. To put things down. It takes cold blood to stand and deliver/ through the adrenaline. Me no dead bodies, been there yes.

 

[RooftopKorean]

A few months ago I purchased a Glock 31 .357 sig which was an LEO trade in for $235. I caught a little verbal abuse at the shop (in a joking manner) for buying what they called a useless caliber.

I love my Glock 31 and the caliber. While I find that there is more flip on the gun than 9mm I definitely find it easier to fire and my groupings are tighter. I had wondered about this and did some research and it seems that my experience is in line with others due to the bullet velocity.

To me the biggest downfall is the cost. It's definitely more expensive to shoot than 9mm.

 

[71velle]

I do not think your vital organs would be able to tell the difference.

If given the choice I would choose the smaller holes....

 

[Rocpo]

The G27 is the 40 cal version of the 26 and for me is a handful. I dont have the strongest hands. 357 is a strange caliber to shoot the recoil feels about the same as 40 but the blast is much greater making you thing the recoil is heavier. I have read that the 357 bullets will sometimes fragment, also over penetration can be a real problem. 357 has the cool factor but I think I would choose 40 over the 357, since it makes a bigger hole.

.40 is a solution to a 1980's problem. 9mm is far ahead of where it was when .40 was introduced.
I'm issued a .40. If I had a choice, I'd go to 9mm. 2 more rounds, similar sized holes, and way less recoil for follow up shots.

 

[Marine Cpl]

If given the choice I would choose the smaller holes....

Your mind would choose that because you are hardwired to think that bigger is better but your brain wouldn’t care if the hole was .355 or .400 of an inch.

 

[71velle]

.40 is a solution to a 1980's problem. 9mm is far ahead of where it was when .40 was introduced.
I'm issued a .40. If I had a choice, I'd go to 9mm. 2 more rounds, similar sized holes, and way less recoil for follow up shots.

When comparing 40 to 357 they share the same capacity and recoil so between the 2 I dont see why use the smaller one.

I agree 9mm bullet tec is much better now, but the same improved tec has made the bigger bullets better too.

I do not use a pistol for work but I think my choice would be a G21 like the state troopers use. If a back up pistol is important possibly a g26/g17 combo would be nice with the magazine compatibility.

 

[Marine Cpl]

When comparing 40 to 357 they share the same capacity and recoil so between the 2 I dont see why use the smaller one.

I agree 9mm bullet tec is much better now, but the same improved tec has made the bigger bullets better too.

I do not use a pistol for work but I think my choice would be a G21 like the state troopers use. If a back up pistol is important possibly a g26/g17 combo would be nice with the magazine compatibility.

That’s not really true at all. In the 80’s the 9mm couldn’t penetrate 12 inches. It fell short at about the 10 to 11 inch mark. Then came the 10mm that penetrated about 16 inches but it’s large frame and recoil wasn’t a good fit for smaller hands and off duty carry. Then the .40 was born and it consistently penetrated about 13 to 14 inches while the 9mm was still at 10 to 11. Today both the 9mm and the .40 do 13 to 14 depending on the load. There is no .40 that does any better than that. In fact some loads like the critical duty get about 16 to 18 inches in 9mm while the .40 is still at the 14 to 16 inch mark in the same loading of critical duty. They do this at a sacrifice of expansion.

 

[71velle]

That’s not really true at all. In the 80’s the 9mm couldn’t penetrate 12 inches. It fell short at about the 10 to 11 inch mark. Then came the 10mm that penetrated about 16 inches but it’s large frame and recoil wasn’t a good fit for smaller hands and off duty carry. Then the .40 was born and it consistently penetrated about 13 to 14 inches while the 9mm was still at 10 to 11. Today both the 9mm and the .40 do 13 to 14 depending on the load. There is no .40 that does any better than that. In fact some loads like the critical duty get about 16 to 18 inches in 9mm while the .40 is still at the 14 to 16 inch mark in the same loading of critical duty. They do this at a sacrifice of expansion.

You might want to look at some more data a lot of good expanding 40 is over 14 inches https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/

 

[Marine Cpl]

You might want to look at some more data a lot of good expanding 40 is over 14 inches https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/

Take lucky gunner with a grain of salt. They include total failures to expand and penetrate like FMJ into their final averages.

Look in particular at the HST. And also nobody on YouTube has been able to replicate those numbers. That one is easy to look up. Even with clear ballistics gel that isn’t temperature sensitive and usually gives you an extra inch or 2.

I suspect they inflate the numbers from ammo sales.

 

[71velle]

Take lucky gunner with a grain of salt. They include total failures to expand and penetrate like FMJ into their final averages.

Look in particular at the hydra shock. And also nobody on YouTube has been able to replicate those numbers. Even with clear ballistics gel that isn’t temperature sensitive and usually gives you an extra inch or 2.

Better yet, I will take you with a grain of salt

 

[Marine Cpl]

Better yet, I will take you with a grain of salt

No need. Look up federal hst which is the most popular load ever on YouTube. Nobody has ever been able to get those inflated numbers.

 

[Marine Cpl]

And if you still don’t believe me, look at the 9mm on luckygunner. No way that HST penetrates over 18 inches.