Shooting at Uvalde Texas elementary school
- Thread starter Catskillkid
- Start date
She added, “He had his reasons for doing what he did and please don’t judge him. I only want the innocent children who died to forgive me.”
Texas School Shooter’s Mother Speaks Out About Her Son
The mother of the gunman who opened fire at an elementary school in Texas is speaking out, saying he "hadijr.com
Stuckinny
.44 mag
These videos of the cops holding back the crowds look bad indeed, but how much help would it have been if the parents were rushing the school? More victims? cops not knowing who the threat really was? Parents getting shot? I agree that these cops with body armor and rifles shouldn't have been standing around, but at the same time you cannot have mobs of people running through the crime scene. Plus, how many cops were already in the building? Did they really have the shooter contained in one classroom? Would more cops in there just confuse the situation? Were all these different agencies in radio communications to coordinate their movements?
It seems like the working assumption was that the suspect was barricaded and not a threat outside of that classroom, which to me requires that the victims in that classroom are written off.
So many questions that need to be answered.
One thing I keep coming across is that in an active shooter situation, it is the first few minutes that matter. Those cops that ran in the building 4 minutes after the shooter did (if true) and took fire were the ones that had the chance to stop this. Again, if this true, 4 in body armor against one not seems like good odds.
The district policy was all doors are locked. Now we are hearing an external door was propped open. Would it have mattered? Who knows. It is also the district policy that classroom doors are closed and locked. Again, was this one, and would it have made a difference. Was the shooter able to get barricaded into a classroom and more defensible position faster because of lapses in these rules?
It seems like the working assumption was that the suspect was barricaded and not a threat outside of that classroom, which to me requires that the victims in that classroom are written off.
So many questions that need to be answered.
One thing I keep coming across is that in an active shooter situation, it is the first few minutes that matter. Those cops that ran in the building 4 minutes after the shooter did (if true) and took fire were the ones that had the chance to stop this. Again, if this true, 4 in body armor against one not seems like good odds.
The district policy was all doors are locked. Now we are hearing an external door was propped open. Would it have mattered? Who knows. It is also the district policy that classroom doors are closed and locked. Again, was this one, and would it have made a difference. Was the shooter able to get barricaded into a classroom and more defensible position faster because of lapses in these rules?
Phazer
.338 Win Mag
I am not a LEO.
I have never been in the military.
I am in the medical field, so I have watched people die...even though I've tried to save them.
As Dan Bongino said, and with which I agree, I can only pray that if I am ever faced with a situation where I must act to save the lives of kids from an active shooter, I hope to have the training, the gear, and the courage to do what is right and not just what is easy.
I salute those of you who have already been called to do such things.
I laud the tactical team in Texas that acted after they arrived. They knew that they would take fire from a murderer who knew where they were entering but whom they could not immediate locate. They did take fire. They still accomplished their mission.
I hope that local police departments will train rapid response teams that can quickly and definitively to end threats against innocents.
I have never been in the military.
I am in the medical field, so I have watched people die...even though I've tried to save them.
As Dan Bongino said, and with which I agree, I can only pray that if I am ever faced with a situation where I must act to save the lives of kids from an active shooter, I hope to have the training, the gear, and the courage to do what is right and not just what is easy.
I salute those of you who have already been called to do such things.
I laud the tactical team in Texas that acted after they arrived. They knew that they would take fire from a murderer who knew where they were entering but whom they could not immediate locate. They did take fire. They still accomplished their mission.
I hope that local police departments will train rapid response teams that can quickly and definitively to end threats against innocents.
Little late to ask the "innocent children who died" to forgive her isn't it? I can tell where this nutball got his (lack of) parenting from
Phazer
.338 Win Mag
Maybe. As a parent, I know that if my kid was in that classroom I'd have gone in with whatever I had on hand. If I could force the murderer to focus on me as a threat, and stop concentrating on my child, I would take the bullet. I do not want to die. I have no desire to throw my life away. Every second that murder is not concentrating on the children, and instead paying attention on dodging threats to himself, the more potential lives are saved. At a minimum, at my adult size, I am more likely to survive a non-immediately-lethal bullet wound than a small child. At worst, if I have to die so that my child lives...so be it. If I have to give up my last 30 years so that my child gets to live another 80, I'll pass peacefully.
Respectfully disagree. The first in took fire and backed off calling for backup then waited. The first "tactical team" was comprised of an off duty border patrol agent who received a text from his wife inside the school who then managed to talk some of the officers into saving his family with him. The "tactical team" that ended this situation was from border patrol.
The local pd has their own swat team. Where were they, and why did a different agency end this an hour and a half later?
This whole thing was botched on so many levels it's hard to comprehend.
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spat
.700 Nitro Express
Violence is not the answer until it is the only answer.
Then you better pray someone comes along who is prepared to use it.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Are those policies practical to maintain ?
Or are they just a CYA so the administration can claim they "did something" and the are not at fault because their policies were violated ?
I see that a lot at work, policies that are impossible to follow while still doing your job.
Everybody knows it and routinely ignores them.
If you attempted to actually follow them you would run into problems because the job wasn't being done.
Physical security is a band aid for this. Fix the root cause, or accept the casualties. Those are the only real options.
Stuckinny
.44 mag
I agree, to me (being untrained), that had to be done in the first minutes. Hell, they had police tape up in those videos, looks like a lot of it. Was the moment of chasing and harassing the shooter into making a mistake, or into an ambush already gone? My fear in this situation, as well as others, is that we lose sight of the true mistake that is not on video and concentrate on the little mistakes that come down to optics. When I say true mistake here, I mean following what seems to be the common consensus that the first responding officers go in, end of story. Which of course is easy for me to say here on the safety of my deck.
Another question I have btw, was there a window in that classroom? If so why were there not cops outside drawing and returning fire. To accomplish just what you said above. Would they return fire in that situation knowing there were kids inside? What would we as a nation do if a kid was accidently killed by a responding officer?
easyspeak
9mm
Did not hear anyone ask if there were any kids alive and taken out of the classroom after shooter was taken out. Thought that would be important to know.
What would we as a nation do if 21 were killed by responding officers doing nothing?
Not positive, but I believe I heard there was at least one survivor.
These are Joe's police.
Stuckinny
.44 mag
And what is the root cause here? Serious question, not being sarcastic at all, just curious as to your thoughts, maybe I missed them before.
Carlos Hathcock
.450/400 Nitro Ex
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That's the million dollar question. General consensus is lack of morals in today's society.
Dr. Evil
20×102mm Vulcan
He had his reasons? What the hell does that mean? YOU are the reason mom. How does it feel mom that you failed miserably providing an environment that nurtured your child, taught him right from wrong, how to behave in society and cope with lifes ups and downs? You basically did a shit job and have some freaking nerve NOW asking for forgiveness. Sterilize this loser to make sure she can't spit out another.
Phazer
.338 Win Mag
Tactical team prevented from entering school earlier by local Uvalde police: report
A Border Patrol tactical team was told by local police to wait to enter the Uvalde, Texas classroom where 18-year-old Salvador Ramos was barricaded, the New York Times reported.
www.foxnews.com
Two officials briefed on the situation told the New York Times that specialized Border Patrol agents arrived at Robb Elementary School between 12 p.m. and 12:10 p.m. which is roughly 30 minutes earlier than previously thought.
Additionally, the officials say that the Uvalde Police Department held the Border Patrol agents back from going inside.
The Times reported that the agents "did not understand why they were left to wait."
Stuckinny
.44 mag
Unfortunately, we may find out very quickly. Seriously though, we know how this goes. One school shooting is thwarted by a SRO, very little attention. One mass shooting is stopped by a armed bystander, crickets. One kid is killed by stray bullet from responding officer chasing a suspect, media is all over it and suddenly people are calling that cop reckless and dangerous.
Dr. Evil
20×102mm Vulcan
And so the blame game starts. Everyone will do what ever they can to distance themselves from the issue. It's going to get ugly. Inadequacy on display for all to see.Tactical team prevented from entering school earlier by local Uvalde police: report
A Border Patrol tactical team was told by local police to wait to enter the Uvalde, Texas classroom where 18-year-old Salvador Ramos was barricaded, the New York Times reported.
Two officials briefed on the situation told the New York Times that specialized Border Patrol agents arrived at Robb Elementary School between 12 p.m. and 12:10 p.m. which is roughly 30 minutes earlier than previously thought.
Additionally, the officials say that the Uvalde Police Department held the Border Patrol agents back from going inside.
The Times reported that the agents "did not understand why they were left to wait."
Dr. Evil
20×102mm Vulcan
IMHO mental illness, lack of family unit, etc..
Stuckinny
.44 mag
Yeah, would agree wholeheartedly, but not a quick fix at all. You will also never hear that sentiment from a presidents, or probably any other politicians mouth without being in the context of white supremacy, or leftists, or deplorables or some other modifier that takes culpability away from our society at large.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
The culture.
As long as you have a supply of suicide attackers you will have massacres. You cannot implement enough security to make a meaningful difference.
We did not used to have an abundance of these monsters. I have my suspicions about what is causing them, but whatever it is needs to be fixed, or things will continue.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
She smeared blood on herself and played dead: 11-year-old reveals chilling details of the massacre | CNN
An 11-year-old survivor of the Robb Elementary School massacre in Uvalde, Texas, feared the gunman would come back for her so she smeared herself in her friend's blood and played dead.
www.cnn.com
Uninformed and Compliant
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Some would use it as an excuse to clutch pearls and gaslight.
The rest would be glad that the shooter was stopped, since every kid in that school was going to be dead, anyway.
Stuckinny
.44 mag
Agree, and since we have a large, probably half, a country that is unwilling to condemn 12 individual shootings in Chicago, in one weekend, with the same fervor and outrage as 12 murders at one time elsewhere, maybe a week or so ago, we cannot begin to even address those root causes. So the question is, and I bet a lot of us are on the wavelength here, why is the former ok, but the latter is not? BTW, not referring to present thread topic in the above, this one was disgusting on a whole other level beyond comparison.
livingston
20×102mm Vulcan
CRIME
Two teens arrested in 'mass casualty' plot in 2018 targeting a Uvalde middle school
Published: 10:34 PM CDT May 3, 2018Updated: 10:34 PM CDT May 3, 2018
Two Uvalde teens were recently arrested for Conspiracy to Commit Murder after officers said they foiled a mass-shooting plot the pair had schemed.
A press release obtained by KENS 5 thoroughly chronicles events leading up to an investigation performed by the Uvalde Police Department and the Texas Rangers.
In the press release, Uvalde Chief of Police Daniel Rodriguez said that a Morales Junior High School student,14, and a former Morales student, 13, had specifically targeted numerous students in what they described as a plan to perform a "mass casualty event against the school."
Authorities said the students were motivated in large part by the Columbine shootings:
"The investigation revealed that the students were infatuated with the Columbine High School shootings and identified themselves to the shooters. The investigation uncovered that the students even referred to themselves using the Columbine shooter's names."
Investigators also believe the students were planning to hold the attacks years from now during their senior year, on the anniversary of the Columbine shooting. However, one of the students began to convince the other that they should move the attacks up to this year.
"One of the students had numerous writings and drawings which depicted weapons capable of causing mass destruction. He wrote about being "God-like" and killing police and other persons. He had an academic analysis of one of the Columbine shooter's journals," the release stated.
Two teens arrested in 'mass casualty' plot in 2018 targeting a Uvalde middle school
One of the students had numerous writings and drawings which depicted weapons capable of causing mass destruction. He wrote about being "God-like" and killing police and other persons.
www.kens5.com