Shooting at Uvalde Texas elementary school

[Bigfoot]

Semiautomatic and automatic firearms have been in existence for more than 100 years. The "mass shooting event" is a relatively new phenomenon, which clearly indicates that the gun itself is not the cause. To further that theory, guns, including select fire models, could be bought and mailed directly to your residence with no governmental controls up until the 1930's. Even after the 1934 NFA, rifles could be purchased and received through the mail. Only after the 1968 GCA did that begin to change. During all this time, "mass shooting events" such as the ones being discussed were non-existent. Acts such as the St.Valentines Day Massacre were extremely rare, and were in fact the genesis for the 1934 NFA. Oddly enough, it was the lack of freedom otherwise known as Prohibition that caused the bootlegging and criminal enterprise that controlled it.

There are many, many facets to the problem. Obvious to me, is the degradation of society at large. This encompasses more than one aspect. The lack of respect for anything or anyone including themselves, the demand that someone's psychosis be accepted as "normal", and the need for external approval ( such as "likes" ) are just a few of these aspects.

The "mass shooting events" began in earnest roughly 30 years ago now. That timeline seems ( to me ) to coincide with "new" methods of parenting. The "Time Out" generation. These children were never spanked, rarely had bad behavior corrected, and were told just how special they were every day. They had few boundaries, and even fewer real consequences for breaking them.

Fast forward to today, those very people that grew up with lax parenting are now parents themselves. They have even less control of their children than their parents had of them, because they were never taught any of what most would consider to be responsible parenting. Wanting only to be their child's best friend, they allowed the kids to do whatever they wanted. Now their children are uncontrollable.

Having had no rules, and little attention paid to them, they sought approval from electronic sources. Video games and internet wormed its way through their brains. Having had government run indoctrination instead of real education, they have no ability to think critically, or even rationally in many cases.

These shooting events are a psychotic's way of seeking approval. They provide infamy. Having never had real personal interactions, the psychotic craves any and all attention. Every one of these killers was a social pariah. Being an outcast drove them to lash out against their perceived opressors. However, the opressors are frequently not the victims of their heinous actions.

The chickens have come home to roost. This problem has been two generations in the making. We won't get out of it overnight, and no legislation will correct it. You cannot legislate morality. We have become an immoral people. Only by returning to respect, honor, truth and wisdom can we hope to change this. Religion provides those qualities to many people, alas, religion has been shunned by and large.

My $ .02

That's a worthy $ .02

Anyways, A friend of mine has three kids and I have to say he is one of the best fathers that I have seen. I have heard him say that a problem with some parents is that they make the mistake of trying to be like best friends with their kids.

Just the other day his boy was pissed off at him. As the pissed off boy walked out of the shop toward the house. My friend said that "if my kids aren't occasionally mad at dad. I am not doing my job as a father."

I just wanted to expand on that part of your post.

 

[Grimscale]

If a teacher believes there is a real risk of a school shooting in their classroom in the future, and their plan starts with suicide?

Nitpick:
These teachers are not thinking of suicide. They are thinking of keeping the bullet from hitting one of their students with the only means left to them. Their bodies.
It is not "mentally fucking ill". It is an instinctive reaction to someone who values another's life above their own and has NO tools with which to protect that other person.
to see it different is what is "mentally fucking ill".

Firefighters will charge into a burning building to save someone even if they do not have the proper gear. Police officers will charge into a collapsing building to save someone even though the likelihood of them succeeding is low. something in them is wired to put the value of a stranger's life above their own. you want to stop that, you might as well depopulate the emergency services.

What we need to do is make sure that these teachers HAVE the tools needed to defend their students without resorting to suicide. We should be GIVING them the tools, the training, and whatever assistance they need.

 

[fresch]

I'm thinking remote gun ports controlled like our drones, only by some cheap guy in India.

 

[Grimscale]

Religion provides those qualities to many people,

Which religion?
The one that says it is ok to diddle little kids?
The one that says it is ok to murder those who do not believe as you do?
Or is it the one that thinks it is ok to torture and enslave those of other religions?

Religion is a man-made concept, fraught with the same corruption as our political structures. Most religions appear to be more about gaining followers so as to gain power and money, not to "save their souls".

You want to see what kind of religious people are pushing for America to become a theocratic nation, just go on over to Gab. You can read for yourself the comments, by it's creator, on how they need to convert everyone to Christianity at sword-point.

Sorry, but that kind of fanatical religious fervor is unacceptable.

 

[BerettaGuy]

The schools are part of the problem, pushing the lbgxyz, and the rest of the lefts bs.

It is much deeper than that!
Cops procedures are developed by "feminist" Federal LE. They may have a feminist mayor. They definitely have a feminist Chief. They may have a hyphenated name or there or four last names because they were raised by a feminist. They may be a feminist through the osmosis of today's society. The Board of Education is probably filled with feminists. The bottom line is that because they are a direct reflection of the community, many cops are forced to be simps because of feminism. Many cops are simps because of feminism. Many cops chose to be simps because of feminism.
In the 60's the simps that ran things were scared stiff by the sight of Black Panthers with guns and the urban riots, so they hired every warrior they could get coming out of Viet Nam. In the 70's they started fearing the warriors and focused on turning cops into college-educated intellectual crime fighters. Then as "feminism" took over, the procedures and SOP's developed by the FBI focused on simps. Today, the ranks are rift with feminists LGBQXYZ simps that know how to follow orders and be a simp.
NY State Troopers and simp ass cops will follow NY SAFE to the letter and lock your ass up for the slightest infraction, or coming soon post on the interweb. Don't kid yourself.
This is heartbreaking.
Before you hate on me, I am a former LE and this is sickening. feckin simps following simp rules made by feminist simps over the course of 40 years of progressive feminist bullschidt.
They don't want "men" doing what men have evolved to do! (Protect and Defend)
That would be against all that is feminist wouldn't it? That is too toxic, isn't it?

 

[NYCGuy]

I believe he mentioned he or she is 18 years old.
At that age, idealism is at an all time high.

Mid 30’s man. I said I don’t think me or my friends were ready for AR’s at 18. 18 yr olds are not as mature as they used to be. If you read what I write you will see that I am freedom/conservative leaning with a hint of: fucking perplexed about what to do to prevent this shit.

 

[BerettaGuy]

Which religion?
The one that says it is ok to diddle little kids?
The one that says it is ok to murder those who do not believe as you do?
Or is it the one that thinks it is ok to torture and enslave those of other religions?

Religion is a man-made concept, fraught with the same corruption as our political structures. Most religions appear to be more about gaining followers so as to gain power and money, not to "save their souls".

You want to see what kind of religious people are pushing for America to become a theocratic nation, just go on over to Gab. You can read for yourself the comments, by it's creator, on how they need to convert everyone to Christianity at sword-point.

Sorry, but that kind of fanatical religious fervor is unacceptable.

Careful you sound exactly like every "progressive anti-gun nut asshole" making exceptions the excuse for the rules.
The shooter used a "Bushmaster" we need laws to prevent Bushmasters. The shooter was a binary fruitcake! We need laws to prevent Bushmasters.

Look at what Al Sharpton said. "They came in and shot people because of the color of their skin" (They) meaning white people.
NO, THEY DIDN'T. He did it.

Even Jesus fought against the established religion of the time as they defiled the temple and that same religion beat tortured and crucified him.

This country was created - founded and thrived because of Christian principles. Was it perfect? NO! Are we perfect?
Every one of those principles has been replaced by progressive anti-religious principles. Every damn one of them. How is that working out for us?
That is all he is saying.

 

[Grimscale]

This country was created - founded and thrived because of Christian principles.

Disagree.


"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

The Founding Fathers knew what they were doing.

 

[Jem45472]

Mid 30’s man. I said I don’t think me or my friends were ready for AR’s at 18. 18 yr olds are not as mature as they used to be. If you read what I write you will see that I am freedom/conservative leaning with a hint of: fucking perplexed about what to do to prevent this shit.

Where you live has a lot to do with this. Upstate there is lots of rural area, and alot of us started hunting by the time we were fourteen. Learned safety and firearm respect at an early age.

 

[fresch]

Disagree.


"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

The Founding Fathers knew what they were doing.

Judeo-Christian Roots of America's Founding Ideals and Documents

Judeo-Christian Roots of America's Founding Ideals and Documents Dear Friends, Most states have now put in place a series of standards and performance objectives which students must attain in order to graduate from high school. As a member of Arizona's Standards Committee for Social Studies I...

nccs.net

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Disagree.


"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

The Founding Fathers knew what they were doing.

It was based on Judeo-Christian values but the founders were seeking to avoid having an official church (ex, church of England) nor making participation in religion compulsory or mandatory.

They very much favored and used Judeo-Christian values and ideals but knew enough to have a clear delineation between church and government.

 

[Blimey]

This is the imbecilic view parroted ad nauseam after such events: Texas lieutenant governor on school shooting: ‘We have to harden these targets’

You could make the place a virtual prison with chambered access but it would do nothing to prevent a person rushing a school bus being unloaded.

These inane views are birthed by an illogical starting place which is: there is nothing we can ever do to prevent a person like this getting a gun. The rest of the western world, which does not have a constant deluge of school shooting, is proof positive that is not true.

He just killed most of a classroom of tenth graders and fuckwits like Cruz can only go on about more guns or training teachers (and this guy had already been engaged by armed response before even entering the school). They can never not once not even a little bit admit that maybe just maybe making it harder for people like this to get a gun could influence outcomes.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

This is starting to really piss me off. More details are coming out

Sounds like the armed officers on scene cowered outside while the asshole was killing kids and others were bleeding out. A border patrol team eventually showed up perhaps 30 mins later and went in.

Wtf.

‘They were unprepared’: Onlookers urged police to charge into Texas school to confront gunman

About 30 minutes before the bloodbath, Salvador Ramos, 18, made three social-media posts, Texas Gov. Gregg Abbott said.

www.marketwatch.com

 

[Celt]

Mid 30’s man. I said I don’t think me or my friends were ready for AR’s at 18. 18 yr olds are not as mature as they used to be. If you read what I write you will see that I am freedom/conservative leaning with a hint of: fucking perplexed about what to do to prevent this shit.

whats the difference between an AR and a lever action 3030, or a Ruger 10/22 or mini14, or a bolt 308. I don't mean the technical differences, I mean that whatever you think you could have done with an AR (shooting rounds in the air on the 4th of July) you could do with any of those other guns I listed. What could you do with a car and a bottle of booze? what could you do with a gasoline and a lighter? its not about the tool, its about the mindset. Todays kids arent the same as kids of older generations, but that doesnt means their/our rights should be any different.

Freedom is dangerous, but id rather have dangerous freedom and safe slavery.

 

[Jmac00]

 

[BerettaGuy]

Disagree.


"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

The Founding Fathers knew what they were doing.

Europe was drained of Alpha males to escape "state" religions and they founded the principles of a state free exercise thereof.
They didn't come here to make a religion-free county.
No wonder they want to cancel the Regents Exam for History.
ps. Progressivism, Feminism, environmentalism, LGBTQism and every other ism are religions. Even Atheism and it is because of that line you quoted, that they exist. Unfortunately, Congress is establishing those religions as law.

 

[tirwin1]

Everyone agrees nutjobs should not have guns. The problem is defining and identifying those mentally ill and likely to murder others. Sounds simple in concept.

Don't think for a minute it won't be abused so that a majority of current owners have to surrender their firearms. My doctor asked me during my last physical if there was a gun in the home. I told him it was none of his business.

I went to an orthopedic doctor on Monday due to a shoulder injury. I was asked to fill out a survey about my symptoms. Most of the questions were relevant, asking me about my pain level and how my injury limited daily activities.

At the ver end the survey asked the same thing 5 different ways.

Are you depressed?
Do feel isolated?
Do you feel lonely?
Etc....

I couldn't believe it. But you don't have to be much of a conspiracy theorist to conclude that NYS could put together self professed gun owners in a database and cross reference their answers to these survey questions to come and remove guns from any owner.

I am confident any system implemented to remove guns from mentally ill people will be abused by the government.

 

[MothMan]

”hardened entrance, armed security, bullet proof glass - whatever”


None of that will help?

NONE?

But arm the English teacher, the woodwork teacher who will need regular, repeated training and support and is expected to strap a gun to their hip in class in front of 8/9 year old kids and then engage the shooter once they have entered the classroom

I know of cops that have almost shit themselves trying to subdue a guy with a gun, but you want the teacher to be responsible

ok …….if you say so

Hardened entrances, bullerproof glass, one or 2 armed guards to cover an entire school, none of that will help.

The solution is simple. Armed teachers.

Repeal the gun free school zone bullshit. It doesn't do anything.

Then reallocate that money to train and arm any teachers who are willing.

This outfit was a small startup 10 years ago in a small place down the street. Contact - Armoured One Now they own the building are paving the parking lot and have offices in SC. Someone is buying their products!

But I can't seem to find any info about the number of students lives they have saved.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

This is the imbecilic view parroted ad nauseam after such events: Texas lieutenant governor on school shooting: ‘We have to harden these targets’

You could make the place a virtual prison with chambered access but it would do nothing to prevent a person rushing a school bus being unloaded.

These inane views are birthed by an illogical starting place which is: there is nothing we can ever do to prevent a person like this getting a gun. The rest of the western world, which does not have a constant deluge of school shooting, is proof positive that is not true.

He just killed most of a classroom of tenth graders and fuckwits like Cruz can only go on about more guns or training teachers (and this guy had already been engaged by armed response before even entering the school). They can never not once not even a little bit admit that maybe just maybe making it harder for people like this to get a gun could influence outcomes.

No one is saying these mass shooters should have guns. They are clearly all mentally ill and every single time after the fact you always hear "the warning signs were there"

The buffalo one was psych evaluated. He still managed to buy a gun. How did that happen? The system failed.



Again, I'm willing to listen to raising the age to buy guns to 21. That's pretty much it.

They need to enforce the laws that currently exist, fix the system where it's broken.


There is no single one thing to fix this. It's a major problem and it may take many steps to correct. Our society is F'd.

We need to keep guns out of the hands of crazies
We need to understand how they got to this point
We need to prevent future kids from turning into evil monsters. This is going to make us have difficult discussions on what went wrong and how to fix it.

We need to compel people who perhaps have knowledge that these people are plotting an attack to report it. I know it won't stop a determined lone wolf who keeps his mouth shut but it may stop. Some.

We need to harden schools. We need to install resistant doors on all classrooms to lock them down. We need to limit access to schools. that 80 billion for Ukrainian would have been great for school hardening etc..

We need to allow those school employees who are willing to be trained and certified the ability to defend themselves and their students. I'm very much against "arming the teachers" but I'm very much in support of letting any school employees who are comfortable and willing to carry guns to be allowed to do so. It would be like an air marshal. Who knows maybe 3-5 employees at the school already have their pistol license and would now take additional training and be given certification to carry on school property.

I dunno maybe even design some sort of incapacitating plan. Let teachers who won't carry guns be able to carry tasers or have some type of bear spray or tear gas. I dunno just trying to get creative.

And remember these are comprehensive ideas to build an integrated way to prevent, identify, discouraged, reduce and mitigate the impact of shootings if they make it to that point.


We need to prevent evil people from ever getting to the point of turning into these monsters. We need to prevent them reaching a point where they have a thought process of "let's go kill kids" to then further degrading their ability to carry out their plans.

Just my .02 cents

 

[Jem45472]

This is starting to really piss me off. More details are coming out

Sounds like the armed officers on scene cowered outside while the asshole was killing kids and others were bleeding out. A border patrol team eventually showed up perhaps 30 mins later and went in.

Wtf.

‘They were unprepared’: Onlookers urged police to charge into Texas school to confront gunman

About 30 minutes before the bloodbath, Salvador Ramos, 18, made three social-media posts, Texas Gov. Gregg Abbott said.

www.marketwatch.com

I'm seeing over 40 minutes from time of crash to shooter's death. Yes it is sickening that I'm starting to hear reports of officers waiting outside.

I said this after Sandy Hook.

If ever put in a situation where there was a gunman around-. My family needs me. I may engage, depending solely on situation, I may not.

That said, if you're talking about children, I would have absolutely no reservation in a scenario like this. No hesitation.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

I'm seeing over 40 minutes from time of crash to shooter's death. Yes it is sickening that I'm starting to hear reports of officers waiting outside.

I said this after Sandy Hook.

If ever put in a situation where there was a gunman around-. My family needs me. I may engage, depending solely on situation, I may not.

That said, if you're talking about children, I would have absolutely no reservation in a scenario like this. No hesitation.

There were armed police cowering outside.

Civilians were yelling at them to do something.

The frigging border patrol finally arrived perhaps a half hour later, another complete different agency and went in after the shooter.


Let that marinate for a bit.

 

[tirwin1]

We must confront the cultural mess that gave us Uvalde

Tragedies such as the horrific school shooting in Uvalde, Texas, on Tuesday have a habit of becoming political before the bodies have even been counted.

www.washingtonexaminer.com

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

I'm seeing over 40 minutes from time of crash to shooter's death. Yes it is sickening that I'm starting to hear reports of officers waiting outside.

I said this after Sandy Hook.

If ever put in a situation where there was a gunman around-. My family needs me. I may engage, depending solely on situation, I may not.

That said, if you're talking about children, I would have absolutely no reservation in a scenario like this. No hesitation.

I honestly think I would run in even unarmed as a civilian. I would rather die than know I did nothing while kids were being slaughtered. I have no idea what I would do. Maybe I would grab a fire extinguisher or something or try to surprise the guy and I'm sure I would likely end up a casualty but I couldn't sit there and do nothing.

 

[Jem45472]

I honestly think I would run in even unarmed as a civilian. I would rather die than know I did nothing while kids were being slaughtered. I have no idea what I would do. Maybe I would grab a fire extinguisher or something or try to surprise the guy and I'm sure I would likely end up a casualty but I couldn't sit there and do nothing.

Agreed. Would never be able to live with myself afterwards if no attempt was made.

 

[Dr. Evil]

18 yr olds are not as mature as they used to be.

Broad brush. It depends on their upbringing and family life. I have 2 sons, 22 and 25 as of July. They were raised with respect, love, discipline (no, never laid a hand on them as there are other ways) and my wife and I were involved in their lives and their friends. My oldest had an internship high school summers working for Tectonics, an engineering firm. My youngest worked his tail off over summers at Pepsi. They were more mature and focused than I was at their age. It comes down to lack of the family unit, guiding kids and teaching them personal responsibility. It isn't just because of their chronological age. Raising kids is the most important job in the world. Sadly, many parents aren't fit to work at a deli.

 

[Dr. Evil]

This is starting to really piss me off. More details are coming out

Sounds like the armed officers on scene cowered outside while the asshole was killing kids and others were bleeding out. A border patrol team eventually showed up perhaps 30 mins later and went in.

Wtf.

‘They were unprepared’: Onlookers urged police to charge into Texas school to confront gunman

About 30 minutes before the bloodbath, Salvador Ramos, 18, made three social-media posts, Texas Gov. Gregg Abbott said.

www.marketwatch.com

Isn't this reminiscent of what happened in the Florida school a few years ago?

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Isn't this reminiscent of what happened in the Florida school a few years ago?

Yes.

I thought everyone learned from that. Apparently not.

 

[Jem45472]

This is starting to really piss me off. More details are coming out

Sounds like the armed officers on scene cowered outside while the asshole was killing kids and others were bleeding out. A border patrol team eventually showed up perhaps 30 mins later and went in.

Wtf.

‘They were unprepared’: Onlookers urged police to charge into Texas school to confront gunman

About 30 minutes before the bloodbath, Salvador Ramos, 18, made three social-media posts, Texas Gov. Gregg Abbott said.

www.marketwatch.com

Just read this. Very disheartening, and I can't understand. The group of onlookers talking of rushing in because police aren't moving forward. They very likely would have been casualties, but if done early enough could have saved lives.

 

[Jchrisls]

Mid 30’s man. I said I don’t think me or my friends were ready for AR’s at 18. 18 yr olds are not as mature as they used to be. If you read what I write you will see that I am freedom/conservative leaning with a hint of: fucking perplexed about what to do to prevent this shit.

I admit to my error and apologize for the assumption on age.

 

[BerettaGuy]

Everyone agrees nutjobs should not have guns. The problem is defining and identifying those mentally ill and likely to murder others. Sounds simple in concept.

Don't think for a minute it won't be abused so that a majority of current owners have to surrender their firearms. My doctor asked me during my last physical if there was a gun in the home. I told him it was none of his business.

I went to an orthopedic doctor on Monday due to a shoulder injury. I was asked to fill out a survey about my symptoms. Most of the questions were relevant, asking me about my pain level and how my injury limited daily activities.

At the ver end the survey asked the same thing 5 different ways.

Are you depressed?
Do feel isolated?
Do you feel lonely?
Etc....

I couldn't believe it. But you don't have to be much of a conspiracy theorist to conclude that NYS could put together self professed gun owners in a database and cross reference their answers to these survey questions to come and remove guns from any owner.

I am confident any system implemented to remove guns from mentally ill people will be abused by the government.

On the bright side, Have you ever wondered if anyone ever reads those forms? My Doctor gives me a HIPPA and other forms that I must "complete" every year. For the past 3 or 4 years, I simply write on them Same as last year.
Sign it and hand it in.
Not one word was ever mentioned.
Government Compliance is a mess and is a total waste of time and money.
The FDA Shut down baby formula not because they found contamination at a plant. But because they needed the plant to provide a plan on how they were going to prevent such contamination. WOOT!
"we plan to change and dispose of filters every 15 minutes"
Yes, speaking from experience, that is how Government Compliance Works.
They don't care about your company promoting Feminism ideals or LGBQ equality. They want to see proof of a plan to teach it to the employees and annual certifications of said training from now on.
It is all about the "Plan" and the yearly Certifications. Period.