Shooting in New Zealand Mosque

[holdover]

Will, do you have a link to the video? I wasn't going to watch it , but now you have me intrigued.

 

[holdover]

Ok I saw it, The man is clearly insane.

Multiple shots , Not even close to being convinced. Im taking the word of what multiple soldiers told me first hand. I still disagree with you 100% .

 

[Marine Cpl]

Ok I saw it, The man is clearly insane.

Multiple shots , Not even close to being convinced. Im taking the word of what multiple soldiers told me first hand. I still disagree with you 100% .

You didn't see the people going down with one or two shots in the hallway or second room?

 

[holdover]

No. But even if your correct , a correct shot placement would of course take them down.

 

[holdover]

You guys all know what to expect next week right? The crazy Muzzies are not going to let this go unanswered.

 

[Marine Cpl]

No. But even if your correct , a correct shot placement would of course take them down.

5.56 has killed multiple tens of thousands of people if not more. It's ridiculous to think it isn't adequate. Even entry teams with short barrels that take off almost a thousand feet per second compared to 20 inch barrel going at 3300 fps have excellent success with the 5.56mm.

Soldiers that say that it isn't adequate are the same type of soldiers that come back and say that the Korean and Chinese water soaked frozen coats were bullet proof. That the .45 ACP spun gooks looks like a top.

It's all nonsense. Soldiers that had the M1 bad-mouthed the M14. Utter bullshit. No one fires one round on a bench in combat when in a firefight. They do like he did and fire multiple.

 

[Acer-m14]

In a way I'm glad this is the most graphic thing you've ever seen. There is much worse out on the interwebz. In reality the video was relatively tame. If you are going into the armed services just remember you may see that way way worse stuff up close and personal.

before the net happen i ran a BBS .. got some CD's with photos .. pics of girls in the morgue impaled with a broom stick .. u know where .. old war pics of people getting executed ..

seen photos from my grandpa he came back with from the war of japs burnt in there fox holes from flame throwers ..

i have seen a lot of real gore ...

 

[holdover]

5.56 has killed multiple tens of thousands of people if not more. It's ridiculous to think it isn't adequate. Even entry teams with short barrels that take off almost a thousand feet per second compared to 20 inch barrel going at 3300 fps have excellent success with the 5.56mm.

Soldiers that say that it isn't adequate are the same type of soldiers that come back and say that the Korean and Chinese water soaked frozen coats were bullet proof. That the .45 ACP spun gooks looks like a top.

It's all nonsense. Soldiers that had the M1 bad-mouthed the M14. Utter bullshit. No one fires one round on a bench in combat when in a firefight. They do like he did and fire multiple.

In Vietnam and Iraq , A lot of soldiers choose to use the AK 47 when they could . They didn't use it because somebody bullshitted them into it . When soldiers returned from Vietnam and Iraq, Afghanistan they complained about the stopping power of the 556 . When I personally spoke with soldiers who have killed men in the Mideast, ALL of them complained about the 556 round . When I watched the video of the massacre, I saw exactly what I was told. Most of those shot would have been able to return fire had they been armed, death or immobility was not instant (most cases). That's what I saw. People were still moving after having been shot multiple times . The fact that the pentagon is going to invest a huge amount of money and go with a larger caliber speaks to this.

I don't want to debate you on this again, We both have our own opinions on it. Don't think I would ever be able to convince you , or you, me. Lets just say we disagree on this issue.

 

[Saltwater60]

5.56 has killed multiple tens of thousands of people if not more. It's ridiculous to think it isn't adequate. Even entry teams with short barrels that take off almost a thousand feet per second compared to 20 inch barrel going at 3300 fps have excellent success with the 5.56mm.

Soldiers that say that it isn't adequate are the same type of soldiers that come back and say that the Korean and Chinese water soaked frozen coats were bullet proof. That the .45 ACP spun gooks looks like a top.

It's all nonsense. Soldiers that had the M1 bad-mouthed the M14. Utter bullshit. No one fires one round on a bench in combat when in a firefight. They do like he did and fire multiple.

Agreed. my BIL was in Iraq and Afghanistan and used the m4 no complaints about it not killing people and he killed people. He was on patrol in a Hummer or hiking the mountains killing folks. He sure loved his turret mounted 50 cal machine gun though.

 

[Marine Cpl]

In Vietnam and Iraq , A lot of soldiers choose to use the AK 47 when they could . They didn't use it because somebody bullshitted them into it . When soldiers returned from Vietnam and Iraq, Afghanistan they complained about the stopping power of the 556 . When I personally spoke with soldiers who have killed men in the Mideast, ALL of them complained about the 556 round . When I watched the video of the massacre, I saw exactly what I was told. Most of those shot would have been able to return fire had they been armed, death or immobility was not instant (most cases). That's what I saw. People were still moving after having been shot multiple times . The fact that the pentagon is going to invest a huge amount of money and go with a larger caliber speaks to this.

I don't want to debate you on this again, We both have our own opinions on it. Don't think I would ever be able to convince you , or you, me. Lets just say we disagree on this issue.

BS. Soldiers can't just choose to field the enemy's weapon. The average grunt line soldier cannot. He has to toe the line for logistical reasons. Special forces is a totally different animal and many times they do so to blend in.

And you think if a .308 was used and hit a non-vital area it would knock them out unconscious so that they couldn't return fire? Do you know of the countless soldiers and enemy hit with a .308/7.62 machine gun that didn't die immediately where medics either saved their life or they died minutes or hours later from blood loss?

That's how all rifles work no matter what the caliber. Vitals have to be struck. When they aren't there isn't immediate death and slow death comes on if not able to be treated.

Anyone who says that the 5.56 isn't enough must be saying that it doesn't reach vitals at all. That can be proven to not be there case over and over.

Soldiers aren't the smartest people when it comes to ballistics. That's like saying that cops are ballisticians because they may have shot one or two people. Most soldiers think that one shot anywhere in the chest should equal a kill. Unfortunately, the laws of the human body don't work that way and then they come back giving their non expert opinions because the shot placement wasn't where it was supposed to be or it was a miss or it hit some part of the kit being worn and didn't penetrate enough.

When I was in most soldiers and Marines didn't even know the difference between 55 grain and 62 grain. Most didn't know that barrel length increases velocity. Most didn't know that hollow points penetrate less than full metal jacket. Most didn't know that you have to aim higher to compensate for bullet drop. They would shoot rounds into the dirt if they didn't think enough to change the rear sight to 500.

These are the type of soldiers that come back saying that their M1 didn't penetrate frozen coats in Korea or that the 45 ACP spun Gooks around like a top.

And it isn't opinion. Vitals struck are the only way to immediately kill someone. That's fact. When you shoot a deer with a 308 in a non-vital area like around the stomach for example, does it die immediately?

 

[Robin]

I don't think you give enough credit to the average soldier.
Robin

 

[Darth]

I have a working like to the uncut vid if anyone wants to PM me for it...

 

[Marine Cpl]

I don't think you give enough credit to the average soldier.
Robin

I say this from experience. Most aren't gun experts. They are 18 to 20 year old kids. Ballistics aren't taught in the military. Those that stay longer and reach their 30's aren't testing bullets. They don't even care. They are too busy managing their platoons if they are in leadership roles. Most don't even own personally-owned weapons until they get out.

 

[holdover]

So do I.

You have your opinion, I have mine, based on soldiers experience, which holds no water for you, and the Pentagon's,. I'll go with that.

 

[holdover]

I say this from experience. Most aren't gun experts. They are 18 to 20 year old kids. Ballistics aren't taught in the military. Those that stay longer and reach their 30's aren't testing bullets. They don't even care. They are too busy managing their platoons if they are in leadership roles. Most don't even own personally-owned weapons until they get out.

Complete nonsense .If 5 NCOs with multiple confirmed kills is not expertise enough for you, nothing is.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Complete nonsense .If 5 NCOs with multiple confirmed kills is not expertise enough for you, nothing is.

Do they study ballistics? Are they trauma surgeons? Or did they just shoot somebody in a vital area or non-vital area?

I was an NCO too who deployed twice. I didn't know s*** about ballistics. It wasn't taught to me. If I would have shot somebody in a vital area and they died or in a non-vital area and they lived would that have made me an expert?

 

[Robin]

They know how to use it, they know what it will do

 

[holdover]

You don't have to be an expert in physics to tell if somebody is still shooting at you.

Your opinion is your opinion, I don't know why you insist on arguing about it. I don't agree with you.

 

[Marine Cpl]

It boils down to this.

Do you believe a shot in a vital area with any caliber will stop you immediately or almost immediately?

Do you believe a shot to a NON vital area with a bigger caliber will stop you immediately or almost immediately? If your answer is yes, than you think a millimeter in extra diameter and fractions of grams in weight does something magical.

 

[Toecutter]

I think a lot of gripes with the 556 has to do with penitrating hard barriers.
Heres a doctors pov on the subject. Personally I wouldn't want to get shot with either.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/ak-47-wound-over-an-m4-2015-12

 

[Marine Cpl]

I think a lot of gripes with the 556 has to do with penitrating hard barriers.

That's a valid argument and I agree. But some here think that if you increase the diameter slightly, great things happen.

The same guys who think a shot to the gut with a .45 ACP will kill you faster than a shot to the heart with a 9mm.

 

[Toecutter]

That's a valid argument and I agree. But some here think that if you increase the diameter slightly, great things happen.

The same guys who think a shot to the gut with a .45 ACP will kill you faster than a shot to the heart with a 9mm.

I think the bigger factor would be weight. Heavy things hit harder. I would be if you shot some scumbag the chest both would be capable, if he was wearing a bunch of AK mags on his chest that may disrupt a 556's game a bit more then a. 30 caliber . Either way I wouldn't want to be shot with either they are both capable of ruining someone's day.

 

[holdover]

It boils down to this.

No it doesn't.

Do you believe a shot in a vital area with any caliber will stop you immediately or almost immediately?

Yes!

Do you believe a shot to a NON vital area with a bigger caliber will stop you immediately or almost immediately?

YES!

If your answer is yes, than you think a millimeter in extra diameter and fractions of grams in weight does something magical.

NO!

The weight of the round makes the difference.

A Shot to the front thigh with an 06 has been known to kill men from shock. An arm shot with a fifty cal has been known to kill men . Men have been completely incapacitated in what is otherwise a non vital area .

Matt sweat, escaped from Dana mora prison upstate NY shot twice in the chest by 556 rounds , miles away from from help survived . Your telling me 2 06 rounds to the chest in the exact same place would have had the same outcome? Your lying to yourself .



That's a perfect center mass shot with tight groupings to the sterum.

 

[ECU Pirates]

It boils down to this.

No it doesn't.

Do you believe a shot in a vital area with any caliber will stop you immediately or almost immediately?

Yes!

Do you believe a shot to a NON vital area with a bigger caliber will stop you immediately or almost immediately?

YES!

If your answer is yes, than you think a millimeter in extra diameter and fractions of grams in weight does something magical.

NO!

The weight of the round makes the difference.

A Shot to the front thigh with an 06 has been known to kill men from shock. An arm shot with a fifty cal has been known to kill men . Men have been completely incapacitated in what is otherwise a non vital area .

Matt sweat, escaped from Dana mora prison upstate NY shot twice in the chest by 556 rounds , miles away from from help survived . Your telling me 2 06 rounds to the chest in the exact same place would have had the same outcome? Your lying to yourself .



That's a perfect center mass shot with tight groupings to the sterum.

He was shot with a pistol. There was no Matt sweat. It was David sweat.

 

[holdover]

That's a valid argument and I agree. But some here think that if you increase the diameter slightly, great things happen.
.

I never even inferred any such thing. That's a complete misunderstanding of what happens .

Its Physics, 101, weight x speed =energy.

That's the difference of a straw hitting you at 50 miles an hour and a semi hitting you at 50 miles an hour.

one weighs , 80 tons , the other a fraction of an ounce.

 

[holdover]

He was shot with a pistol. There was no Matt sweat. It was David sweat.

Your right it was the others guy last name was Richard Matt , got the 2 confused. Matt was shot with the 556 round. My mistake.

 

[holdover]

That's a valid argument and I agree. But some here think that if you increase the diameter slightly, great things happen.

The same guys who think a shot to the gut with a .45 ACP will kill you faster than a shot to the heart with a 9mm.

There you go lying again . Now either your a moron who cant comprehend what he reads, or your a liar that has to make up facts to support his beliefs. Neither would be the first time with you .

I would love to prove it by shooting you in the head with a 45 but Im inclined to believe it would bounce off. I think a 556 would bounce too.

 

[Marine Cpl]

It boils down to this.

No it doesn't.

Do you believe a shot in a vital area with any caliber will stop you immediately or almost immediately?

Yes!

Do you believe a shot to a NON vital area with a bigger caliber will stop you immediately or almost immediately?

YES!

If your answer is yes, than you think a millimeter in extra diameter and fractions of grams in weight does something magical.

NO!

The weight of the round makes the difference.

A Shot to the front thigh with an 06 has been known to kill men from shock. An arm shot with a fifty cal has been known to kill men . Men have been completely incapacitated in what is otherwise a non vital area .

Matt sweat, escaped from Dana mora prison upstate NY shot twice in the chest by 556 rounds , miles away from from help survived . Your telling me 2 06 rounds to the chest in the exact same place would have had the same outcome? Your lying to yourself .



That's a perfect center mass shot with tight groupings to the sterum.

OMG.

 

[Marine Cpl]

There you go lying again . Now either your a moron who cant comprehend what he reads, or your a liar that has to make up facts to support his beliefs.

Now now Holdover. No one here if saying that a 30.06 bullet does magical things for you to get all angry now. Oh. Wait. You did.

 

[holdover]

Its called physics Will, Not magic. I know when you cant comprehend something , it appears to be magic , but its really not.