The M1916 Federov. The world's first assault rilfe

[Podmonkey]

It was designed as a light machine gun but to my mind in neatly fits the textbook description of an assault rifle. In this application I can consider the 6.5 Arisaka as an intermediate cartridge.

Oh, @Dayten, IT HAS A VERTICAL GRIP!!!! Oooooooh, way back in 1916 too.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Damn you, you beat me to this

 

[Edwardteach72]

And I would agree first assault rifle.

But the sturmgewehr the first successful assault rifle .

This could have done it but like many good ideas war seems to happen just at the worst time

 

[oc shooter]

to my way of thinking the BAR was the first successful assault rifle 2 years behind the rusky's but a full power selective firer monster of a rifle notice it was called a rifle not a machine gun

 

[Edwardteach72]

to my way of thinking the BAR was the first successful assault rifle 2 years behind the rusky's but a full power selective firer monster of a rifle notice it was called a rifle not a machine gun

BAR is a battle rifle, not assault rifle


Edit. After doing some quick looking. Nope I was wrong it may be an assault rifle

 

[Podmonkey]

to my way of thinking the BAR was the first successful assault rifle 2 years behind the rusky's but a full power selective firer monster of a rifle notice it was called a rifle not a machine gun

This predates the BAR. And the BAR used the full power rifle cartridge.

 

[Edwardteach72]

This predates the BAR. And the BAR used the full power rifle cartridge.

And correct me if I am wrong.. full powered rifle cartridge = battle rifle?

I only say that because that was my understanding (when all things the same other than chambering) one is assault rifle other battle rifle.

Only reason I am second guessing myself is Gun Jesus seems to loosely call the BAR the US's first assault rifle? In one of the videos

 

[Podmonkey]

And correct me if I am wrong.. full powered rifle cartridge = battle rifle?

I only say that because that was my understanding (when all things the same other than chambering) one is assault rifle other battle rifle.

Only reason I am second guessing myself is Gun Jesus seems to loosely call the BAR the US's first assault rifle? In one of the videos

Full power cartridge= not an assault rifle.
"Battle Rifle" is a retroactive colloquialism that means "not an assault rifle". The term has no official meaning.
The Fedorov uses a cartridge of significantly less pressure/power than the standard 7.62x54r so in my mind it counts as using an intermediate cartridge. For the time.
The sum of all the little distinctions of the true assault rifle is controllable, effective full auto fire from a shoulder fired infantry rifle/carbine. That is the true distinction. Guns like the M14, G3, FAL, AR10 aren't really practical in full auto.
An M16/M4 AK47 and especially the AK74 are however.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Full power cartridge= not an assault rifle.
"Battle Rifle" is a retroactive colloquialism that means "not an assault rifle". The term has no official meaning.
The Fedorov uses a cartridge of significantly less pressure/power than the standard 7.62x54r so in my mind it counts as using an intermediate cartridge. For the time.
The sum of all the little distinctions of the true assault rifle is controllable, effective full auto fire from a shoulder fired infantry rifle/carbine. That is the true distinction. Guns like the M14, G3, FAL, AR10 aren't really practical in full auto.
An M16/M4 AK47 and especially the AK74 are however.

See and that for the most part was my thinking about the fed.

And as for the battle rifle as well.

 

[Podmonkey]

There is no gainsaying that the Fedorov was a successful weapon.
It had significant production, was officially adopted and issue and saw successfully service in combat. It was even liked by those that used it.

 

[Gonzobird]

I think you have to take a step back and think about it in terms of the times.

No one really had the idea of "Assault Rifle" They were not seeing that kind of tech or method of warfare until just before WW2. Don't forget 40 years prior to 1900 people were still lining up in front other each other and basically throwing lead at each other's lines until one broke.

BARs were considered a light machine gun. This would be considered the same. Battles then weren't taking place within 100yards. Trench warfare was the idea of the time hence why i think this would have been considered a "light machine gun". It would have filled the same role as a BAR.

 

[Robin]

Either all infantry rifles are assault rifles or there is no such thing. Hundreds of thousands of Mosin's were carried in human wave assaults by the Soviets. Same with M1's on varying scales of men required and virtually every rifle used including muzzleloaders, civil war ring a bell.
But, my scary, little,,rugged, black, best hunting rifle I ever had, is not.
Robin

 

[Curmudgeon]

Either all infantry rifles are assault rifles or there is no such thing. Hundreds of thousands of Mosin's were carried in human wave assaults by the Soviets. Same with M1's on varying scales of men required and virtually every rifle used including muzzleloaders, civil war ring a bell.
But, my scary, little,,rugged, black, best hunting rifle I ever had, is not.
Robin

Well said. No such thing as an assault rifle. Just an assaulting soldier. Similar analogy to "gun violence".

 

[Podmonkey]

Either all infantry rifles are assault rifles or there is no such thing. Hundreds of thousands of Mosin's were carried in human wave assaults by the Soviets. Same with M1's on varying scales of men required and virtually every rifle used including muzzleloaders, civil war ring a bell.
But, my scary, little,,rugged, black, best hunting rifle I ever had, is not.
Robin

Well said. No such thing as an assault rifle. Just an assaulting soldier. Similar analogy to "gun violence".

No, you both are thinking of "assault weapon" which is a political term.
Assault Rifle is an informal yet codified military term to describe selective fire rifles or carbines that fire intermediate cartridges and feature detachable box magazines.
One can make the argument that the selectfire version of the M1 carbine, the M2, is by definition an assault rilfe. And I would agree.

 

[Podmonkey]

I think you have to take a step back and think about it in terms of the times.

No one really had the idea of "Assault Rifle" They were not seeing that kind of tech or method of warfare until just before WW2. Don't forget 40 years prior to 1900 people were still lining up in front other each other and basically throwing lead at each other's lines until one broke.

BARs were considered a light machine gun. This would be considered the same. Battles then weren't taking place within 100yards. Trench warfare was the idea of the time hence why i think this would have been considered a "light machine gun". It would have filled the same role as a BAR.

And yet here we have the M1917, in my opinion the prototypical Assault Rifle. It was well ahead of it's time and like all such things had numerous drawbacks but the type can be considered the progenitor of today's infantry arms.

 

[Podmonkey]

When I think about it the M1 carbine was a similarly forward thinking design, fitting the definition of an Assault Rifle in it's M2 guise but also being a prototypical example of a quite modern and yet largely undefined category of arm, the Personal Defense Weapon.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Assault rifle is a made up term just like assault weapon. There is no official military definition on what is an assault rifle.

The term is used by people who make their own designations on what they think an assault rifle is. Nowadays they want to classify select fire weapons as assault rifles but like Robin said, "Mosins were assault rifles too." Lee Enfields were assault rifles.

 

[Podmonkey]

Assault rifle is a made up term just like assault weapon. There is no official military definition on what is an assault rifle.

The term is used by people who make their own designations on what they think an assault rifle is. Nowadays they want to classify select fire weapons as assault rifles but like Robin said, "Mosins were assault rifles too." Lee Enfields were assault rifles.

Wrong. Originally a propaganda term coined by Hitler referring to the Stg 43, an Assault Rifle nevertheless refers to a firearm with a fairly specific set of characteristics.

 

[Robin]

Actually he called it the "Stormrifle". Using 'assault' as a synonym for storm is playing fast and loose with the english language, the Germans are quite literal in their language, often creating one long word out of many whole, short words to accurately describe what they have.

'Assaulting Weather', I don't think so.
Robin

 

[Gonzobird]

women sure knew how to dress back then.

 

[Podmonkey]

Actually he called it the "Stormrifle". Using 'assault' as a synonym for storm is playing fast and loose with the english language, the Germans are quite literal in their language, often creating one long word out of many whole, short words to accurately describe what they have.

'Assaulting Weather', I don't think so.
Robin

He dubbed it the Sturmgewer. Sturm=storm, storm as in to attack, assault as in "Storm the castle"

 

[Robin]

Ahhhhh, so you know the inner workings of Hitlers mind.
Robin

 

[Podmonkey]

Ahhhhh, so you know the inner workings of Hitlers mind.
Robin

No. Do you?

 

[Robin]

Your'e the one doing the interpreting. My translation was literal.
Robin

 

[Podmonkey]

Your'e the one doing the interpreting. My translation was literal.
Robin

C'mon dude, when translating languages the context is taken into account. Strum l, just like storm, has multiple meanings. In the context of Sturmgewer Strum means assault.
Or are you saying Hilter was referring to a Rain Rifle?

 

[Robin]

No, just making a literal translation, which, when ciphering teutonic text, that is how one gets the most accurate understanding.
Robin

 

[Podmonkey]

No, just making a literal translation, which, when ciphering teutonic text, that is how one gets the most accurate understanding.
Robin

The accepted translation Sturmgewer has always been Assault Rifle.

 

[Robin]

Not to me, and millions of others. Don't try to assault on my parade.
Robin

 

[Marine Cpl]

See? That's what I mean. You just proved it's a made up term Pod.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Sport utility vehicles.
Made up term

Jeep
Made up term

Snowboard
Made up term