US Army’s new handgun will be a Sig:

[Robin]

Maybe it was the DAK. My 229 has worked flawlessly for years in both calibers .40 and .357SIG. Not one failure of any kind, ever.
Robin

 

[Defilade]

I would hate to think the 229 is crap considering the agencies that carry it. Mine runs flawless.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

I know little to nothing about the Sig 320. I do know my opinion of the Sig 229 DAK is that it was a piece of crap. I carried one for 2 years 9 months before I retired. A lot of the ones we were issued had problems. I heard a lot over the years about poor quality control at Sig too. I would not have one.

As for the Army selecting them, what gets me is at least one of the linked articles says they were seeking a pistol with a more powerful round than the 9mm and one says a source said the 9mm version of the 320 was selected. Screwball logic unless it has interchageable caliber capability.

Conversion Kits | Parts

 

[togmaster]

Screwball logic unless it has interchageable caliber capability.

It does.

 

[Podmonkey]

I don't think it's the caliber the Army is thinking of changing, but perhaps they are making further reference to the issuance of hollow point ammunition. This is logical and this simple change would improve the effectiveness of the sidearm manyfold as we know.

 

[meketrefe]

Glock fan boys are "SAUER" about this. Lol

Nobody should be sauer about anything. It is a fine & fun but personally I don't like it.
In reality the glock has better balance, more reliable and cheaper.
It has nothing to do with being a fan or not, it is a simple reality.
These are tools not beauty products.

 

[Phauxtoe]

Glock fan boys are "SAUER" about this. Lol

NICE!

 

[Glenn B]

I would hate to think the 229 is crap considering the agencies that carry it. Mine runs flawless.

The agencies for whicjh I worked carried S&W semi autos, I think yhey were models 469 and 569 (that was ling ago), that were absolute junk, then switched to yet another but improved S&W (I think 6906) then to Glocks (models 19 an 26) then to Sigs. The S&W 469/569s were true junk in my opinion. The 6906 were better but still a lot of problems. Literally had slides come off of a few of the S&Ws while being shot by agents at the range. The Sigs had magazines falling out with regularity, numerous problems with FTF (slides not going into battery), a couple or few cracked slides, and other issues as I recall. Glocks had issues with magazines which went through several changes over the years and with recoil springs. The agency bought all of them them based on those which met certain criteria and then only on which manufacturer, whose pistols fit the criteria, who could lowball the contract. Base nothing to little on which agencies have them but on the quality control ahered to by the manufacturer. Contracted guns at low bid prices, are likely to have issues with quality control and one lot may be excellent and the next mere POS pistols.

 

[ECU Pirates]

In reality the glock has better balance, more reliable and cheaper.

Turd Fergeson says....
You can't really say the Glock is more or less reliable. Longer track record sure. You don't have access to the test data (that I'm aware of) that was used to make this decision. The 320 also has a trigger that is way better than any glock (stock) I have used. Others say the sig points more naturally. We also don't really know what price was offered by glock or sig.



Sig has a new moto. Perfection perfected.

This message is from a self professed sig fanboy.

 

[ECU Pirates]

Big mistake. Did you see that Sig hiccup in the video below. That's the second time Sig has failed tests done by this guy.

I just watched a video where a Glock 19 failed a mud test. You better sell all the glocks and that that one pistol that passed them all (can't recall the brand but it's not a household name).

 

[meketrefe]

Better trigger is arbitrary. They can also be supplied wiht a custom spring/pull if requested.
The Sig points more naturally is also arbitrary since the glock has a lower center of gravity for the group.
We don't know the price offered but in the past glock has been competitive and with lower cost of ownership.

The list of countries and agencies with the glock is so big that it does not fit in one post. That is also an advantage
for any army imo.

 

[ECU Pirates]

Better trigger is arbitrary. They can also be supplied wiht a custom spring/pull if requested.
The Sig points more naturally is also arbitrary since the glock has a lower center of gravity for the group.
We don't know the price offered but in the past glock has been competitive and with lower cost of ownership.

The list of countries and agencies with the glock is so big that it does not fit in one post. That is also an advantage
for any army imo.

The army is not going to request custom springs or pulls unless it makes it like a NYPD 12 pound trigger.

"The Sig points more naturally is also arbitrary since the glock has a lower center of gravity for the group."

Lower center of gravity is not always a big deal and does not equal natural pointing. It's a 9mm and they are not worried about 1/10 second spilt times.

The Sig is newer so of course the list is much smaller. Glock also just about gave away pistols to law enforcement . It was very smart on their part. Glocks are great but they are no longer the only game in town.

I have to say this. You sound a bit fanboyish . It's ok to admit it. I do!

I'm guessing there was only one factor that resulted in the Sig selection. Price. Sig most likely gave them away.

 

[Uzi]

I'd rather have the new CZ p10c.

 

[lotsofammo]

I just watched a video where a Glock 19 failed a mud test. You better sell all the glocks and that that one pistol that passed them all (can't recall the brand but it's not a household name).

 

[ECU Pirates]

I would guess the test results were similar and it came down to price. Sig most likely gave them away ala Glock with cops. It was smart. I might order a 320 tonight depending on how much scotch I drink. It was a bad week. Clever marketing sig. Well played haha

 

[ECU Pirates]

Looks like a sig! haha Did the fake sig beat the real one? Or did they not test the comparable sig model?

 

[Podmonkey]

@meketrefe Y'know there really isn't much of a spread between any of the top tier polymer Striker fired guns. I'm perfectly content of the selection of the P230 for the Army's new sidearm. As a taxpayer I do hope that SIG provided the guns at a competitive cost and the modular nature of the design will probably produce significant maintaince savings over the life of the program. No need to be salty dude! I bet the Marines adopt a Glock though. Wasn't there some scuttlebutt to that effect?

 

[Defilade]

Nobody should be sauer about anything. It is a fine & fun but personally I don't like it.
In reality the glock has better balance, more reliable and cheaper.
It has nothing to do with being a fan or not, it is a simple reality.
These are tools not beauty products.

Debatable.

 

[meketrefe]

I am not a huge pistol fun but I am very pragmatic about service use and critical duty.
Some of the best pistols on the market have adopted Glock design and directives.
I had to carry and shoot a 92F in the service and when I think about the glock it would have been the perfect pistol.
There is nothing too special about the glock only that it is the most reliable pistol on the planet, pretty accurate and
endless aftermarket support. The glock is like the AK of the pistols.
It seems to me perfect for any Army as it is perfect for endless other armies and agencies.
It might seem boring but like I said, I see pistols more like tools.

 

[Robin]

1911 always seemed to get the job done.
Robin

 

[Podmonkey]

1911 always seemed to get the job done.
Robin

Single stack, single action pistols are completely obsolete for duty use.

 

[Robin]

Hah! What do you think a pistol is for?!
Robin

 

[ECU Pirates]

Hah! What do you think a pistol is for?!
Robin

Punching through ambushes right?


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[Marine Cpl]

I just watched a video where a Glock 19 failed a mud test. You better sell all the glocks and that that one pistol that passed them all (can't recall the brand but it's not a household name).

It failed the sand test. It passed all others. Sig on the other hand.....

To show my bias as a Glock fanboy, I'd recommend the AREX. That gun passed every single test even without being dunked in water in between tests. One after the other. All day long.

Why? It doesn't have tight tolerances. You don't need tight tolerances for a combat pistol.

 

[Podmonkey]

It failed the sand test. It passed all others. Sig on the other hand.....

To show my bias as a Glock fanboy, I'd recommend the AREX. That gun passed every single test even without being dunked in water in between tests. One after the other. All day long.

Why? It doesn't have tight tolerances. You don't need tight tolerances for a combat pistol.

As I recall the P320 passed that particular series of test very well. It had some fail to lock into battery at the end in the mud which simply smacking the back of the slide solved. I belive the Glock had similar issues, just about any mechanical device will fail when it is covered in mud like that.

 

[ECU Pirates]

It failed the sand test. It passed all others. Sig on the other hand.....

To show my bias as a Glock fanboy, I'd recommend the AREX. That gun passed every single test even without being dunked in water in between tests. One after the other. All day long.

Why? It doesn't have tight tolerances. You don't need tight tolerances for a combat pistol.

Not the video I saw. It failed the mud also (same format). This guy sort of copied the MAC format. Well not sort of he totally copied it. The torture tests are about as important to me as shooting through frying pans. As long as it works under reasonable circumstances it's good with me. I'm not going to get tackled into mud then sand then dirt then a swimming pool then have to shoot 10 through a frying pan. At least I hope not cause I will be screwed! If they make that AREX in a compact if might be a good choice. All frying pan jokes aside.

 

[ECU Pirates]

As I recall the P320 passed that particular series of test very well. It had some fail to lock into battery at the end in the mud which simply smacking the back of the slide solved. I belive the Glock had similar issues, just about any mechanical device will fail when it is covered in mud like that.

I'm sure all the mud is the exact same consistency. He was saying it was "soupier" at one point.

 

[Podmonkey]

Hah! What do you think a pistol is for?!
Robin

In combat? Not much really, last ditch option for when everything else has failed. And for officers not serving on the line. Since a military handgun will spend the majority of the time in the holster it should be as light as possible so as not to unnecessarily encumber the soilder. 1911s are not light. Since military handguns are of secondary importance they should not be any more expensive than necessary. Polymer is cheaper than steel. The 1911 is an all steel gun. And that 15-18 rounds of 9mm is better than 7-8 rounds of .45 shouldn't require explanation. The 1911 is a fine gun and I want to have one asa range toy someday, but it is silly to expect an over 100 year old design to remain viable indefinitely. You don't see our troops in combat with 1903 sprinfields do you? And the 1903 is also a wonderful rifle, just not for combat anymore.

 

[Darth]

Just as was planned by the government backscratching.

The criteria made it too obvious.

 

[Podmonkey]

Just as was planned by the government backscratching.

Meaning?