Visted a Gun Store today.

[Depick]

I'm not trying stir up some shit here or be a jerk, frankly I find your experiment quite interesting, but my curiosity is too great. Would you be as willing to conduct this experiment if you were not a police officer but just a citizen with a carry permit?

 

[MilesTeg]

No reason for this arguing, I pushed my social experiment too far. I should have covered when asked. My goal was not to be a douche bag or a dick. My intention was not to mention this in order to start another pissing contest.

Sorry I posted.

I agree with what your doing and understand it. I agree you took it a little too far but that does happen. I'm personally glad you posted it and the debate insued, it shows how opposition to the sight of a firearm is regarded from our own side.

When I went to college 3 years ago there was a guy that would open carry in a suit but would always take the jacket off at lunch. No badge no nothing showing he was allowed to do it he jest did it. I do think he was a police officer but I don't really know. My point is at no point did I feel unsafe or think I should shoot him for being on school grounds with a gun. Just because there's a gun where you don't expect it means you need to shoot someone.

 

[FCG LLC]

No reason for this arguing, I pushed my social experiment too far. I should have covered when asked. My goal was not to be a douche bag or a dick. My intention was not to mention this in order to start another pissing contest.

Sorry I posted.

Speaking for myself only - I think we (you and I) have had the same approximate number of trips around the sun.

I don't think you were being a dick. Yes, you pushed that store clerk's buttons a bit, but I don't think any harm has arisen from it. Maybe if you ever go back to the gun store a quiet apology to that person would be in order?

Still speaking for myself, if and when I am running class or range exercises, if anyone does ANYTHING I know is illegal, I ask them to stop, and I may ask them to leave my range, because I don't want that negative shit storm of attention from the "man" if they are there incognito, and more important I don't want my name out there as the guy who cuts corners, or that guy who turns a blind eye to illegal shit, or the guy who operates in the gray area. So if you had done that in my space on my time - and I agree a private class is light years different from a shop, I would have come down pretty hard on you.

If I was the owner of a gun store, so long as loaded guns stay in holsters I really DGAS.

Doesn't mean I like any of the stupid gun laws we are faced with either!

 

[eagleridge357]

When your logic is so in left field how do you want me to respond. If I follow your logic I should shoot every police officer I get pulled over bye because he has a gun and isn't doing what I feel he should. Your argument is that insane sounding.

Officers are uniformed and authorized to stop you. C'mon, get on track.

 

[ProgSpear]

It is NOT!

This is a little game of mine that I have been doing for a while now just to see if there is a reaction from other around.

Stupid game indeed!

Hey GP, I will cheerfully call you out for being a dink in this one. Stupid game indeed! And I agree with Darth that playing the "cop card" was out and out abuse of power. Bluntly, if you think that riding tin to abuse the law for your personal amusement is ok, you might want to check your ego a little. This is the kind of entitlement attitude that has this country in the shitter, 'cause it's the one played by every pissant wannabe dictator from Hillary on down. Not trying to make you retreat to your safe space or anything, but that's how I feel.

 

[eagleridge357]

GoPerfect, yes you should have posted. Discussion is good. You admitted to doing a not so good thing. The point is, some people do react strangely to a firearm, and may just take it as a threat, even in a LGS. You were not in uniform, and your firearm was visible, and you did ignore a reasonable request, not once, but twice, yet some posters here think that is just hunky-dory. Amazing!

 

[FCG LLC]

Exact legal reason for feeling life may be threatened....( not to be confused with appropriate behavior under the circumstances).....man carrying a firearm dressed in plain clothes, ignored my requests to not display the firearm in the store, continued to display and ignore a second time, makes me feel just maybe this guy has some reason to be in this store, and to ignore me, maybe to rob the place, maybe to stop any clerk who tries to prevent him from doing so???? Feels like his life may be threatened. He nervously reacts with a few shots. Not saying he is smart for doing so, just saying it makes some reasonable sense. Some people may actually take this kind of arrogant brandishing behavior as a threat.

I am sorry, there is nothing in NYS Penal Law that supports your argument Eagleridge357. (any justification of use of deadly physical force).

Or let me say this, if you can find that section of the PL that substantiates your argument, I am always open to learning new stuff every day.

Yeah, GoPerfect's actions were a bit jerky, but he does seem to be contrite.

 

[FCG LLC]

GoPerfect, yes you should have posted. Discussion is good. You admitted to doing a not so good thing. The point is, some people do react strangely to a firearm, and may just take it as a threat, even in a LGS. You were not in uniform, and your firearm was visible, and you did ignore a reasonable request, not once, but twice, yet some posters here think that is just hunky-dory. Amazing!

Ok. I like that we can swear here. For fuck's sake, no one here has said what he did was hunky-dory, or cool, or acceptable. Let's not mis-characterize what people are saying. We can be painfully honest with each other without bringing out the broad paintbrush.

 

[Catskillkid]

@GOPerfect, I'm curious. Was this LGS a small mom and pop type outfit or was this a big box store a la Cabelas, Gander Mountain, etc.? I know many here would disagree with me on this but I think this makes a big difference depending on which type you were at. If it was a local FFL like one near me where I'm on a first name basis with the store employees I'm pretty sure none of them (even a new employee) would have a problem with me OCing. However, if I went into my local Gander rocking out with my Glock out, if you know what I mean, I think it's reasonable to expect a different reaction. Then again that's just me.

 

[Magnus]

So this a store for purchasing guns? I personally feel a good gunshop should disobey certain unconstitutional laws as per Thomas Jefferson's request. If I'm in a gun store I want to feel comfortable, not like the criminal NY makes me out to be.

 

[Deplorable Me]

The store has a concealed carry policy, their carry policy is concealed. Silly store clerk.

 

[Mr. terzmo]

It is NOT!

This is a little game of mine that I have been doing for a while now just to see if there is a reaction from other around.

Stupid game indeed!

Well....across the creek..in Niagara COUNTY..it was stated emphatically that a conceal carry was just that and not an invitation for anyone to test the waters. As I don't believe in a lot of rules NY State has in effect..but nether the less,.I submit you are NOT helping law abiding citizens with this action and for my 2 cents...yes...you were being a dick

 

[Bozo]

Was this a chain store? Seems to me the only correct LGS policy would be "Sir, welcome to our tiny slice of America. Please be sure to cover when you leave as you will be returning to the People's Republic of New Yorkistan. FUAC, and please come again!"

 

[Runner99]

can't believe the butthurt over open carrying by people who supposedly support the 2A....

you all really assume "Gun" means "danger".... right out of Hil-Dawg's playbook

seriously, do you all get your panties in a bunch when there's someone shooting on the bench next to you at the range? How is that any different than someone open carrying next to you in a store? Both cases a stranger is armed near you, but you don't freak out there...

 

[Bananabandit]

can't believe the butthurt over open carrying by people who supposedly support the 2A....

you all really assume "Gun" means "danger".... right out of Hil-Dawg's playbook

seriously, do you all get your panties in a bunch when there's someone shooting on the bench next to you at the range? How is that any different than someone open carrying next to you in a store? Both cases a stranger is armed near you, but you don't freak out there...

My thoughts exactly...oh no open carrying is illegal. You're bad!

These guys are fucking jokes. No wonder you want to stay in NY

 

[FCG LLC]

can't believe the butthurt over open carrying by people who supposedly support the 2A....

you all really assume "Gun" means "danger".... right out of Hil-Dawg's playbook

seriously, do you all get your panties in a bunch when there's someone shooting on the bench next to you at the range? How is that any different than someone open carrying next to you in a store? Both cases a stranger is armed near you, but you don't freak out there...

Again, no need to broadly lump everyone together with what is the opinion of a minority. Most of us think he could've handled the situation better. HE thinks he could've handled the situation better. Most of us agree that the store clerk had the RIGHT to ask him to leave - at any point, and even after he identified himself as a police officer. Some of us have expressed we would not care if someone open carried in a gun store. I personally don't worry myself about inanimate objects, except for things can can pose immediate danger like a big tub of radioactive goo. Fires and flood and big winds in my book are not "inanimate".

 

[Marine Cpl]

He told you three times and kept a level head. If he wasn't levelheaded, after the 2nd time, he could have walked back to the counter, picked up a shotgun, and ordered you to the ground.

Another concerned armed citizen could have intervened and backed him up and or fired on you if he thought the clerk was distressed or misread the situation.

I'm not saying that would have been right for the mere sight of a gun if he did that, but the possibility of that happening is there. You don't know how stable the guy is. Having it concealed would have eliminated that possibility from happening.

My point is, you know you are a good guy but a crazy guy does not. That guy could not have been crazy but could have had a chip on his shoulder for being ignored.

So what tactical advantage was gained by showing your firearm and getting into a pissing contest?

None. If I didn't know the whole story and just walked in and the clerk had drawn on you or didn't draw on you and instead began shouting, I would have backed up the clerk. An off duty police officer just walking in would have done the same.

Other than showing off and having half a second less to the draw, showing what you have on your hip offers no tactical advantages and in fact increases your likelihood of getting into situations that may not favor you but you'll never admit to that and will continue doing so just because you like it.

Even though I do like you and usually agree with everything you say, I think you were wrong in this case and should have just left.

 

[Shadow2]

Not being able to open carry in a gun store is like saying no open containers when your at a bar.

 

[Cooolone]

What fucking bullshit, reasonable request to not display a firearm (?) in a business that does exactly that? So, taking a couple of boxes of ammo to the counter and then asking to see a firearm would be considered a threat too if that firearm was of the same caliber as the ammo? Or pulling a rifle off the rack? shotgun? What's different about a customer handling a weapon, then the guy with a holstered weapon? Guess too many missed the point... Walking around a gas station with an open carry, yeah, Bakery, yeah... Having a Gun in a Gun store... No, sorry...

Pushing buttons is good, I do it all the time, and if the kid wants to attempt to exhibit authority, he had better learn all the rules. He simply should have said on the second request, do as I say or you must leave. That's it... Period!

Law requires private businesses to clearly display policy if it is to be enforced, ie, not accepting large bills, etc. And to those who think because he has possession of a weapon which is holstered gives the worker the right to draw/point or otherwise display a weapon at the customer in order to effect a store policy, are just plain fucking loco! Get real...

I read some shit on here and get that vomit projectile feeling just like reading some of the BS on that other place way back when. Utter ridiculousness!

 

[Phauxtoe]

so i am totally lost, but intrigued!

 

[FCG LLC]

What fucking bullshit, reasonable request to not display a firearm (?) in a business that does exactly that? So, taking a couple of boxes of ammo to the counter and then asking to see a firearm would be considered a threat too if that firearm was of the same caliber as the ammo? Or pulling a rifle off the rack? shotgun? What's different about a customer handling a weapon, then the guy with a holstered weapon? Guess too many missed the point... Walking around a gas station with an open carry, yeah, Bakery, yeah... Having a Gun in a Gun store... No, sorry...

Pushing buttons is good, I do it all the time, and if the kid wants to attempt to exhibit authority, he had better learn all the rules. He simply should have said on the second request, do as I say or you must leave. That's it... Period!

Law requires private businesses to clearly display policy if it is to be enforced, ie, not accepting large bills, etc. And to those who think because he has possession of a weapon which is holstered gives the worker the right to draw/point or otherwise display a weapon at the customer in order to effect a store policy, are just plain fucking loco! Get real...

I read some shit on here and get that vomit projectile feeling just like reading some of the BS on that other place way back when. Utter ridiculousness!

But tell us how you really feel, and this time don't hold back.

 

[Airborneguy]

Even here in the city it seems that in most gun stores the employees at least OC. Recently at the NRA dinner on Staten Island the FFLs there to facilitate transfers were OC'ing right in the main hall the whole time.

Side note, tomorrow I have to attend a yearly domestic violence seminar that's held on a local college campus. We all got an email today reiterating, strongly, that our firearms must be concealed the whole time or we will be asked to leave. Pussies.

 

[Kwalsh]

I'm sorry but you kinda acted like I'm better than you a little bit, that employee was probably just trying to help you out,maybes you took of a jacket or hoodie and forgot you had pistol on your hip. Like hey your gas door is open, your lights are on, or something to that effect. I hate salespeople with the best of them but maybe he deserves a little apology or maybe just a coffee and donut

 

[spat]

Gun shop policy was retarded, employee was just stuck in a bad situation, unless he wrote the policy you can't blame him. The owners of the shop are entitled to whatever asinine policy they want, they are not the government so they are not bound by the restrictions the government is/should be.

If they asked you to put on a hillary for president button, or leave, then you leave.

Interesting experiment, but hanging around and pushing it was a dick move IMHO.

 

[Acer-m14]

I have seen my LGS owner open carry in his store .. i wasn't scared .. was more like oh cool .. no robbers getting out of this place .. this CCW / OC is just insane because of someone feelings .. i wouldn't even care if shoppers came in open carry ..

but with NY retarded laws .. the undesirables (robbers, thugs) with there Illegal pistol ... hidden in their hoodie pocket till they approach the counter ...

I don't even want to see the CC / OC yelling now .. i think it all up to me/you .. what you want to do .. what your comfortable with .. what ever ..

but living in NY most of my life .. when you see OC .. its like a givin .. its a cop .. this employee needs a new job ..

 

[Eddie Gunks]

This is what gets me, "people" get confused. "People " are not the cops. So STFU already. If i wanna carry open, i will. I dont care what the fuck anyone other than a credential carrying cop has to say.

It is not the average citizens Place to police someone else. They do not need to police your speed carrying a gun jaywalking or any other thing. People should just shut the fuck up and mind their own business. I don't need to be advised in anyway shape or form, if I did I would consult a lawyer.

I mean come on, the original poster was in a gun store open carrying who the fuck cares? You're in a goddamn gun store. There's guns everywhere.

And I know all the bullshit, but my permit says license to carry a gun. My permit does not say I must conceal it in in 265 Penal Code it barely touches on if I have to conceal it or not and it's fairly ambiguous.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

Even here in the city it seems that in most gun stores the employees at least OC. Recently at the NRA dinner on Staten Island the FFLs there to facilitate transfers were OC'ing right in the main hall the whole time.

Side note, tomorrow I have to attend a yearly domestic violence seminar that's held on a local college campus. We all got an email today reiterating, strongly, that our firearms must be concealed the whole time or we will be asked to leave. Pussies.

Yeah, but they'll probably allow you to OC a dildo.

 

[Glenn B]

"Do not fret, I'm a cop. I am allowed to carry how I want." He has no clue on what to say, so he just walked away without another word.

You said, in your scenario, you were not trying to be a dick and yet you said that. I would have called the police to have you removed from my store. Anyway, how arrogant of a arsehat can one be to say something like because you are a cop you can carry as you please. Now it is my turn to ask you - based upon your social experiment - show me your departmental policy that plainly says you can carry however you please because you are a cop.

 

[Darth]

What fucking bullshit, reasonable request to not display a firearm (?) in a business that does exactly that? So, taking a couple of boxes of ammo to the counter and then asking to see a firearm would be considered a threat too if that firearm was of the same caliber as the ammo?

To me? No. To a gun store? Yes. In fact, you'd be surprised how many won't do just that to avoid suicides in the store.

Or pulling a rifle off the rack? shotgun? What's different about a customer handling a weapon, then the guy with a holstered weapon? Guess too many missed the point... Walking around a gas station with an open carry, yeah, Bakery, yeah... Having a Gun in a Gun store... No, sorry...

Being told "no" is the difference. Just like many ranges AND NRA conventions do. I disagree with that policy, but they are free to do as they wish.

Pushing buttons is good, I do it all the time, and if the kid wants to attempt to exhibit authority,

Like GP did with the "I'm a cop" line...

he had better learn all the rules. He simply should have said on the second request, do as I say or you must leave. That's it... Period!

No argument there.

Law requires private businesses to clearly display policy if it is to be enforced, ie, not accepting large bills, etc.

No it doesn't?

"Sole discretion of the management" means that if they want you gone, you leave, or you're trespassing. Sign or not. I could have a sign up saying "CCW encouraged in this store!", and kick someone out for CCWing. My business, my rules.

And to those who think because he has possession of a weapon which is holstered gives the worker the right to draw/point or otherwise display a weapon at the customer in order to effect a store policy, are just plain fucking loco! Get real...

Correct.

I want to stop this piling on of GP though. We know him, and respect him. Not some random n00B. We have voiced our disapproval of the actions taken, and while I started it, some have taken it a little far IMO.

 

[nortatoga]

Darth I really hate when I agree with you! !!!!