What is a troll? (one user's opinions of the forum)

[gun_slinger_boy]

From Merriam-Webster

2a: to antagonize (others) online by deliberately posting inflammatory, irrelevant, or offensive comments or other disruptive content

IMHO this forum has gone to shit. I view it more as a political forum rather than a gun forum. Talks of politics grossly overshadow any talks of anything firearm related. Even when a thread is started pertaining to firearms it quickly devolves into some political debate not even having anything to do with the topic at hand. There is currently a thread going debating the virtues of communism in what started out as a thread about increasing speed limits in NY. The shift in discussion happened immediately.

The "old forum" failed mostly due to censorship. This forum remedied that and was fantastic at first. Slowly but surely all the problems of the old forum have crept into this one. To make matters worse, after this last presidential election there seemed to be an influx of troll membership. It's quite obvious that the way things turned out gave these trolls the courage to create accounts that would not have happened otherwise. One previous troll has even made his triumphant return recently. You will see him polluting threads eventually. You can't escape it. All this is to say (and not that it matters) that it has made my participation greatly reduced here as I'm sure is the case for others. Thanks for listening to my rant.

 

[dwa12479]

Sadly politics is so intertwined with firearms these days (especially here in NY), it seems to dominate the discussions.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

What isn't political these days?

 

[dsdmmat]

This is my own opinion and does not represent the opinions, thoughts or beliefs of management or the owners of this forum.

If I had my way there would not be a politics forum and political topics would be deleted as soon as they popped up. That being said nothing is stopping anyone from ignoring the entire politics forum. Nothing is stopping people from posting more gun stuff. This forum is full of everyone from link posters to trolls, with very few shooters in the mix.

Politics infects the internet, it is unfortunate, but it is the way.

 

[Podmonkey]

An unpleasant, unsightly creature what lives under a bridge and demands a toll from anyone that would cross it.

 

[BerettaGuy]

Just remember the 11th commandment! "Thou Shalt Not Feed the Trolls".
A real troll is looking for your response which then gives them some kind of sexual stimulation. If you ignore them, it drives them kwazy! If you know one, don't touch his keyboard.
Trolling is becoming a pandemic. Although there is no vaccine to prevent it. If you follow the 11th Commandment you won't have a strong case of trolling.

 

[SonOfSun]

According to many here, someone that disagrees with you.

 

[GOPerfect]

I have always been and will always be a Political junkie. Not all about Politics but all issues that revolve around life. As for this being a gun forum, we still discuss a great many gun and gear related issues.

I can talk to anyone about anything, anywhere and at any time. My biggest pet peeve here and other places that I fancy is the derailing of a good topic; I understand that sometimes a topic accidentally gets off message and most here are pretty good about getting back on, but there are some that do in intentionally.

Yeah, we got some serious trolls here, they have nothing positive to add due to their possible real life failings, here, they can be all Billy badass and talk tough....

BTW, on Twitter, I am nothing but a Troll. I love it. I hide behind a fake name and a fake profile.

 

[Mosinitis]

From Merriam-Webster

2a: to antagonize (others) online by deliberately posting inflammatory, irrelevant, or offensive comments or other disruptive content

IMHO this forum has gone to shit. I view it more as a political forum rather than a gun forum. Talks of politics grossly overshadow any talks of anything firearm related. Even when a thread is started pertaining to firearms it quickly devolves into some political debate not even having anything to do with the topic at hand. There is currently a thread going debating the virtues of communism in what started out as a thread about increasing speed limits in NY. The shift in discussion happened immediately.

The "old forum" failed mostly due to censorship. This forum remedied that and was fantastic at first. Slowly but surely all the problems of the old forum have crept into this one. To make matters worse, after this last presidential election there seemed to be an influx of troll membership. It's quite obvious that the way things turned out gave these trolls the courage to create accounts that would not have happened otherwise. One previous troll has even made his triumphant return recently. You will see him polluting threads eventually. You can't escape it. All this is to say (and not that it matters) that it has made my participation greatly reduced here as I'm sure is the case for others. Thanks for listening to my rant.

Oh my God, someone posted something self-glorifying and self-righteous don't approve.

 

[BerettaGuy]

This is my own opinion and does not represent the opinions, thoughts or beliefs of management or the owners of this forum.

If I had my way there would not be a politics forum and political topics would be deleted as soon as they popped up. That being said nothing is stopping anyone from ignoring the entire politics forum. Nothing is stopping people from posting more gun stuff. This forum is full of everyone from link posters to trolls, with very few shooters in the mix.

Politics infects the internet, it is unfortunate, but it is the way.

I understand your sentiment,
The Second Amendment was about politics both then and now.
Gun Laws are about keeping guns out of the hands of non-white minorities by bigoted Democrats.
The Beretta Forum does not allow political posts.
Yeah, how is that working out? If I have a specific Beretta question I will visit. BTW haven't been there in over 3 years. Political assault on your freedoms happens daily.

I would rather have an echo chamber of like-minded gun shooters than some leftist whako that says he owns a gun. I can watch CNN or Andrew Cuomo for that crap.

Embrace it baby!

 

[tony]

Ignore the trolls and any type of political discussion and it will go away. Let your last post in the thread read " no interest here "... Enough " no interests here " posts and the troll will die of boredom...

Does anyone think they can do that?

 

[GOPerfect]

Ignore the trolls and any type of political discussion and it will go away. Let your last post in the thread read " no interest here "... Enough " no interests here " posts and the troll will die of boredom...

Does anyone think they can do that?

I pass over any and all posts/threads that I am not interested in.

I put on ignore all members that make my brain hurt. I do not always respond to stupidity.

Seems easy.

 

[HEX]

So, the OP here is a little bit all over the map. For transparent clarification, I moved this into help and feedback and set the second part of the title (because the title was pretty clearly non-descriptive of what the person is talking about past the first lines, but if I'd handled that like I probably should have I'd be dealing with claims of 'censorship'..heh)

Anyway, it seems like 'Feedback', because if not intended as an open letter to the owners/organizers of the forum about how and why we do what we do, then I don't really see what the point is or who else this is actually for.
For that reason I'm locking this, for now, until I have some time to make a response (I just got up not long ago and I have somewhere I need to be, so that time is not right now). Otherwise, I figure this would get crushed under the weight of opinions and derailments (and probably arguments and personal attacks) before I'd had a chance to address the initial statements.

 

[HEX]

Well, as I'm always a man of my word, I suppose I should get to this. I am however kind of annoyed and rather divided in doing so because the OP's post is kind of problematic ...eh, I guess I'll just get to that. This is probably going to be a long post, and likely a huge waste of time, buuuut.. there are some fairly simple answers to the ideas of trolls and trolling, topic swerves, and all that. As the second paragraph though makes unsubstantiated claims, I suppose I'll have to start there because I don't think we have, from the start, an honest interlocutor (who would likely know all the solutions already), but rather that the purpose of this thread is just to put some destructive shots in without caring about honesty; or perhaps more importantly, without actually caring about doing anything to make the forum better. That of course is my opinion, though one certainly based on experience AND one I can support by the actions (or lack thereof) involved. Lets.. just dig into it I guess.

So..*sigh*, let's get into this first:

The "old forum" failed mostly due to censorship. This forum remedied that and was fantastic at first. Slowly but surely all the problems of the old forum have crept into this one.

This is slightly difficult to address(or not address), as I'd prefer, because we try not to refer to 'the other place', or take shots at it, as much as is possible. However, because you're relating a claim about there to here, it seems inevitable to some degree. This is also relevant though because I am clearly the most active Admin here, exactly as I was there, so I can speak definitively for both cases.
The primary issue is that you're making entirely unsubstantiated (and unsubstantiateable, cuz it's not there) claims of censorship. It's really very simple though. That forum had rules, and this one has rules. In both cases, everything done by staff was and is done entirely in accordance with those rules. The only difference in censorship of the 'old forum' was that forum included a rule to not use profanity. That's it. The true story is that it worked absolutely fine until 2013 when a lot of new members poured in due to the SAFE Act. That could have been great, but..well, these people were angry, and not feeling especially cooperative with any authority.. even when that authority was just the people giving them a place to talk about it. The fact that those people had an issue following the rules already in place does NOT censorship make. To say that's the reason the forum failed is a ridiculous misconception. There are a number of actual reasons, not the least of which is what drove us all here instead (which had nothing to do with censorship), but that's not the point here.

It's no different here. Nothing has changed in regard to 'censorship', or the way we do anything, and all I see is nonsensical claims that relate to title changes and things that are based entirely on what's clearly written in the rules. Obviously (to any logical person) there has to be rules to continue having the forum. This claim of the forum turning more toward censorship is frankly dishonest and I see no way it could be substantiated. It's something I only ever see said by people who can't get over their own egos when the rules as written are enforced (and I think it's not easy to find any other gun forum that goes as easy as we do on even our own rules). This is possibly the least censored gun forum that actually still has anyone actively staffing it that I'm aware of. I do get so tired of censorship claims with nothing to back it up, and I value honesty above all other virtues (which is why some of the people with the longest history of 'issues' with the forum are still here).
So, I challenge you I suppose. Substantiate your claims of censorship, and honestly, with the totality of circumstance (because that NEVER happens).. or you're bullshit.

A really important factor here, also in regard to censorship and a point I've made many times before, is that I could name you a number of members I've respected here (and in the old place) that specifically left because they couldn't stand what WAS being allowed. It's a conversation I've had numerous times and some of my favorite members are gone due to the choice they made that it wasn't worth the constant egos and conflict put out by what had/has become some of the 'loudest' voices. It's interesting to think that those voices, some gone some maybe still here, might also be labeled as 'trolls' under the actual definition. As people have so often told me, when mentioning this before, you can't make everyone happy. I try to remember that and just do my best to keep providing this place.

Ok.. now let's get into the easier stuff. Trolls, trolling, swerves, and most importantly what and you can actually do about it. It's the not doing something about it but complaining anyway part that gets to me.
Thing #1: Trolls are NOT simply anyone that disagrees with you or the local popular opinions. I see a lot of that misconception here. This relates to the issue above a little bit, and others, but also applies here. In another thread (somewhat ironically an utterly ridiculous claim of censorship from a member that actually seems to have lost his mind.. based on the truly loony conspiracy stuff he was accusing us of.. we're a secret liberal cabal out to get him personally, all that.. anyway, not important) a member said something along the lines of this site championing conservative values. While I appreciated the way he meant it in context, and he was supporting the site rather than shitting on it, it was factually incorrect. The staff members, as individuals have personal values, but when acting in the interest of the site they are irrelevant. Some people here seem to not understand that dichotomy is essential and nothing is ever personal. This site is for the discussion of guns, gun rights, gun laws, all that jazz. It is not inherently political. No staff member has ever made a site decision based on personal politics or personal issues. It amazes me when people don't understand this, but it happens all the time. Some people make the most bizarre assumptions after receiving some kind of reprimand or whatever, and it's inevitably based on ego and/or further assumptions about a staff member's ego, rather than basic logic.

Now, all that said, the label of trolling could in fact potentially be applied to people continually swerving topics. There's something I actually agree with you on, but that moves me into the issue of making complaints like this without taking any responsibility as a member to improve it. We're a group that supposedly so strongly endorses personal responsibility, but then some just bitch and whine and never take any.
There is the immediately obvious thing, as members here have already stated, the ignore feature. It works, and there's no shame in using it, but personally I don't particularly endorse it. Why ? because there are better ways; at least one that could actually help the issues. I'm not one who really understands getting very emotional over forum stuff generally, but.. I mean, if someone just drives you plain nuts, the option is always there.
You know what almost never gets used though ? The report feature. It's right there on every post. One thing that I think is important to recognize here is that the site has a total staff of 4 and only 2 who are currently regularly active on the site (One of the other 2 though makes this place continue to run, and I would never say he wasn't doing MORE than his fair share by so doing). This is very important though, because the OP and some seem to think the staff should see any handle everything they don't like, whether it's a valid issue or not.. without ever even being informed of it. Does that make any sense to you ? It sure doesn't to me. If someone actually wants the site to be better, then maybe using it and talking an active role in informing staff where there are issues might be an idea.. just sayin'. We may not always take an action on a report, depends what is and how the rules apply, but at minimum it might give us an opportunity to do something where it's needed. For example, someone might report a person was trolling a thread. if they actually are, then we would know about it for one thing, We might then make a post that says try to stay on topic. If the 'troll' ignored us, THEN we might have something to act on.
That, I suppose, brings me to engagement of trolls. Simply: Don't. It's really not hard. If there's a reason to report, then by all means do so. FAR more often than not, people wind up being the ones who break the rules. That always puts us in a bad position of how to deal with anything.

A forum website it's largely what it's members make it. So, you don't like where the forum is at, then do something (right) about it.

I'm unlocking this thread now. As long as discussion can be civil it will remain so (or at least until something requires a direct staff address again, for the same reasons as I stated in the former post).

 

[GOPerfect]

Well, as I'm always a man of my word, I suppose I should get to this. I am however kind of annoyed and rather divided in doing so because the OP's post is kind of problematic ...eh, I guess I'll just get to that. This is probably going to be a long post, and likely a huge waste of time, buuuut.. there are some fairly simple answers to the ideas of trolls and trolling, topic swerves, and all that. As as the second paragraph though makes unsubstantiated claims, I suppose I'll have to start there because I don't think we have, from the start, an honest interlocutor (who would likely know all the solutions already), but rather that the purpose of this thread is just to put some destructive shots in without caring about honesty; or perhaps more importantly, without actually caring about doing anything to make the forum better. That of course is my opinion, though one certainly based on experience AND one I can support by the actions (or lack thereof) involved. Lets.. just dig into it I guess.

So..*sigh*, let's get into this first:

This is slightly difficult to address(or not address), as I'd prefer, because we try not to refer to 'the other place', or take shots at it, as much as is possible. However, because you're relating a claim about there to here, it seems inevitable to some degree. This is also relevant though because I am clearly the most active Admin here, exactly as I was there, so I can speak definitively for both cases.
The primary issue is that you're making entirely unsubstantiated (and unsubstantiateable, cuz it's not there) claims of censorship. It's really very simple though. That forum had rules, and this one has rules. In both cases, everything done by staff was and is done entirely in accordance with those rules. The only difference in censorship of the 'old forum' was that forum included a rule to not use profanity. That's it. The true story is that it worked absolutely fine until 2013 when a lot of new members poured in due to the SAFE Act. That could have been great, but..well, these people were angry, and not feeling especially cooperative with any authority.. even when that authority was just the people giving them a place to talk about it. The fact that those people had an issue following the rules already in place does NOT censorship make. To say that's the reason the forum failed is a ridiculous misconception. There are a number of actual reasons, not the least of which is what drove us all here instead (which had nothing to do with censorship), but that's not the point here.

It's no different here. Nothing has changed in regard to 'censorship', or the way we do anything, and all I see is nonsensical claims that relate to title changes and things that are based entirely on what's clearly written in the rules. Obviously (to any logical person) there has to be rules to continue having the forum. This claim of this forum turning more toward censorship is frankly dishonest and I see no way it could be substantiated. It's something I only ever see said by people who can't get over their own egos when the rules as written are enforced (and I think it's not easy to find any other gun forum that goes as easy as we do on even our own rules). This is possibly the least censored gun forum that actually still has anyone actively staffing it that I'm aware of. I do get so tired of censorship claims with nothing to back it up, and I value honesty above all other virtues (which is why some of people with the longest history of 'issues' with the forum are still here).
So, I challenge you I suppose. Substantiate your claims of censorship, and honestly, with the totality of circumstance (because that NEVER happens).. or you're bullshit.

A really important factor here, also in regard to censorship and a point I've made many times before, is that I could name you a number of members I've respected here (and in the old place) that specifically left because they couldn't stand what WAS being allowed. It's a conversation I've had numerous times and some of my favorite members are gone due to the choice they made that it wasn't worth the constant egos and conflict put out by what had/has become some of the 'loudest' voices. It's interesting to think that those voices, some gone some maybe still here, might also be labeled as 'trolls' under the actual definition. As people have so often told me, when mentioning this before, you can't make everyone happy. I try to remember that and just do my best to keep providing this place.

Ok.. now let's get into the easier stuff. Trolls, trolling, swerves, and most importantly what and you can actually do about it. It's the not doing something about it but complaining anyway part that gets to me.
Thing #1: Trolls are NOT simply anyone that disagrees with you or the local popular opinions. I see a lot of that misconception here. This relates to the issue above a little bit, and others, but also applies here. In another thread (somewhat ironically an utterly ridiculous claim of censorship from a member that actually seems to have lost his mind.. based on the truly loony conspiracy stuff he was accusing us of.. we're a secret liberal cabal out to get him personally, all that.. anyway, not important) a member said something along the lines of this site championing conservative values. While I appreciated the way he meant it in context, and he was supporting the site rather than shitting on it, it was factually incorrect. The staff members, as individuals have personal values, but when acting in the interest of the site they are irrelevant. Some people here seem to not understand that dichotomy is essential and nothing is ever personal. This site is for the discussion of guns, gun rights, gun laws, all that jazz. It is not inherently political. No staff member has ever made a site decision based on personal politics or personal issues. It amazes me when people don't understand this, but it happens all the time. Some people make the most bizarre assumptions after receiving some kind of reprimand or whatever, and it's inevitably based on ego and/or further assumptions about a staff member's ego, rather than basic logic.

Now, all that said, the label of trolling could in fact potentially be applied to people continually swerving topics. There's something I actually agree with you on, but that moves me into the issue of making complaints like this without taking any responsibility as a member to improve it. We're a group that supposedly so strongly endorses personal responsibility, but then some just bitch and whine and never take any.
There is the immediately obvious thing, as members here have already stated, the ignore feature. It works, and there's no shame in using it, but personally I don't particularly endorse it. Why ? because there are better ways; at least one that could actually help the issues. I'm not one who really understands getting very emotional over forum stuff generally, but.. I mean, if someone just drives you plain nuts, the option is always there.
You know what almost never gets used though ? The report feature. It's right there on every post. One thing that I think is important to recognize here is that the site has a total staff of 4 and only 2 who are currently regularly active on the site (One of the other 2 though makes this place continue to run, and I would never say he wasn't doing MORE than his fair share by so doing). This is very important though, because the OP and some seem to think the staff should see any handle everything they don't like, whether it's a valid issue or not.. without ever even being informed of it. Does that make any sense to you ? It sure doesn't to me. If someone actually wants the site to be better, then maybe using it and talking an active role in informing staff where there are issues might be an idea.. just sayin'. We may not always take an action on a report, depends what is and how the rules apply, but at minimum it might give us an opportunity to do something where it's needed. For example, someone might report a person was trolling a thread. if they actually are, then we would know about it for one thing, We might then make a post that says try to stay on topic. If the 'troll' ignored us, THEN we might have something to act on.
That, I suppose, brings me to engagement of trolls. Simply: Don't. It's really not hard. If there's a reason to report, then by all means do so. FAR more often than not, people wind up being the ones who break the rules. That always puts us in a bad position of how to deal with anything.

A forum website it's largely what it's members make it. So, you don't like where the forum is at, then do something (right) about it.

I'm unlocking this thread now. As long as discussion can be civil it will remain so (or at least until something requires a direct staff address again, for the same reasons as I stated in the former post).

Very decent response.

I will now respond a bit deeper as well. My opinion means nothing more than the next guy. I am a simple member here who has been here fro quite sometime. I like to think that I have added quite a bit here. Bits of knowledge, bits of news and lots of personal opinions. I do not care ever if I get called out for being wrong. I do care when personal attacks begin to occur. That does happen from time to time.

I have become friends with many members here; not just on the forum itself, but in person. I speak with many on the phone, meet up with people that I have met here and so forth. Sometimes, we disagree, very much so, but we never get personal about it. There are a few people here that seem to go out of their way to be nasty to others.

The trolling is at times, very bad. We all do a bit of trolling from time to time, but others seem as if they get off on it. It gets tiring after a while, especially when a thread is going very well. Some really great conversations have ended due to the trolling and the false egos of some.

We have some really great members here, we really do. Many have been here a very long time.

We have some really crappy members as well. As much as it may screw up threads, there are a few that I have on ignore. I just don't want to read the shit they they type. One nice feature of the ignore, you can click on an ignored persons post for that thread, read their garbage to see if it makes sense and close that post on a whim.

One last thing in regards to the Trolling thing, disagreeing is not equal to trolling, it is just not seeing things the same as ithers, that is okay as well. Heated conversations are a good thing, IMO. The true trolling, if all just don't respond, or put them on ignore, they will disappear like a fart in the wind.

Back to other discussions.....

 

[kev74]

As stated above, the ignore function works well.

I like the verity of topics that come up for discussion here. Guns, shooting, reloading to home improvement, car repair, etc. Even politics. I probably get better news coverage here than on the news sites I read.

Once I started blocking the very few who seem like they have no other reason to live than to argue here, it's been smooth sailing.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Well, as I'm always a man of my word, I suppose I should get to this. I am however kind of annoyed and rather divided in doing so because the OP's post is kind of problematic ...eh, I guess I'll just get to that. This is probably going to be a long post, and likely a huge waste of time, buuuut.. there are some fairly simple answers to the ideas of trolls and trolling, topic swerves, and all that. As as the second paragraph though makes unsubstantiated claims, I suppose I'll have to start there because I don't think we have, from the start, an honest interlocutor (who would likely know all the solutions already), but rather that the purpose of this thread is just to put some destructive shots in without caring about honesty; or perhaps more importantly, without actually caring about doing anything to make the forum better. That of course is my opinion, though one certainly based on experience AND one I can support by the actions (or lack thereof) involved. Lets.. just dig into it I guess.

So..*sigh*, let's get into this first:

This is slightly difficult to address(or not address), as I'd prefer, because we try not to refer to 'the other place', or take shots at it, as much as is possible. However, because you're relating a claim about there to here, it seems inevitable to some degree. This is also relevant though because I am clearly the most active Admin here, exactly as I was there, so I can speak definitively for both cases.
The primary issue is that you're making entirely unsubstantiated (and unsubstantiateable, cuz it's not there) claims of censorship. It's really very simple though. That forum had rules, and this one has rules. In both cases, everything done by staff was and is done entirely in accordance with those rules. The only difference in censorship of the 'old forum' was that forum included a rule to not use profanity. That's it. The true story is that it worked absolutely fine until 2013 when a lot of new members poured in due to the SAFE Act. That could have been great, but..well, these people were angry, and not feeling especially cooperative with any authority.. even when that authority was just the people giving them a place to talk about it. The fact that those people had an issue following the rules already in place does NOT censorship make. To say that's the reason the forum failed is a ridiculous misconception. There are a number of actual reasons, not the least of which is what drove us all here instead (which had nothing to do with censorship), but that's not the point here.

It's no different here. Nothing has changed in regard to 'censorship', or the way we do anything, and all I see is nonsensical claims that relate to title changes and things that are based entirely on what's clearly written in the rules. Obviously (to any logical person) there has to be rules to continue having the forum. This claim of this forum turning more toward censorship is frankly dishonest and I see no way it could be substantiated. It's something I only ever see said by people who can't get over their own egos when the rules as written are enforced (and I think it's not easy to find any other gun forum that goes as easy as we do on even our own rules). This is possibly the least censored gun forum that actually still has anyone actively staffing it that I'm aware of. I do get so tired of censorship claims with nothing to back it up, and I value honesty above all other virtues (which is why some of the people with the longest history of 'issues' with the forum are still here).
So, I challenge you I suppose. Substantiate your claims of censorship, and honestly, with the totality of circumstance (because that NEVER happens).. or you're bullshit.

A really important factor here, also in regard to censorship and a point I've made many times before, is that I could name you a number of members I've respected here (and in the old place) that specifically left because they couldn't stand what WAS being allowed. It's a conversation I've had numerous times and some of my favorite members are gone due to the choice they made that it wasn't worth the constant egos and conflict put out by what had/has become some of the 'loudest' voices. It's interesting to think that those voices, some gone some maybe still here, might also be labeled as 'trolls' under the actual definition. As people have so often told me, when mentioning this before, you can't make everyone happy. I try to remember that and just do my best to keep providing this place.

Ok.. now let's get into the easier stuff. Trolls, trolling, swerves, and most importantly what and you can actually do about it. It's the not doing something about it but complaining anyway part that gets to me.
Thing #1: Trolls are NOT simply anyone that disagrees with you or the local popular opinions. I see a lot of that misconception here. This relates to the issue above a little bit, and others, but also applies here. In another thread (somewhat ironically an utterly ridiculous claim of censorship from a member that actually seems to have lost his mind.. based on the truly loony conspiracy stuff he was accusing us of.. we're a secret liberal cabal out to get him personally, all that.. anyway, not important) a member said something along the lines of this site championing conservative values. While I appreciated the way he meant it in context, and he was supporting the site rather than shitting on it, it was factually incorrect. The staff members, as individuals have personal values, but when acting in the interest of the site they are irrelevant. Some people here seem to not understand that dichotomy is essential and nothing is ever personal. This site is for the discussion of guns, gun rights, gun laws, all that jazz. It is not inherently political. No staff member has ever made a site decision based on personal politics or personal issues. It amazes me when people don't understand this, but it happens all the time. Some people make the most bizarre assumptions after receiving some kind of reprimand or whatever, and it's inevitably based on ego and/or further assumptions about a staff member's ego, rather than basic logic.

Now, all that said, the label of trolling could in fact potentially be applied to people continually swerving topics. There's something I actually agree with you on, but that moves me into the issue of making complaints like this without taking any responsibility as a member to improve it. We're a group that supposedly so strongly endorses personal responsibility, but then some just bitch and whine and never take any.
There is the immediately obvious thing, as members here have already stated, the ignore feature. It works, and there's no shame in using it, but personally I don't particularly endorse it. Why ? because there are better ways; at least one that could actually help the issues. I'm not one who really understands getting very emotional over forum stuff generally, but.. I mean, if someone just drives you plain nuts, the option is always there.
You know what almost never gets used though ? The report feature. It's right there on every post. One thing that I think is important to recognize here is that the site has a total staff of 4 and only 2 who are currently regularly active on the site (One of the other 2 though makes this place continue to run, and I would never say he wasn't doing MORE than his fair share by so doing). This is very important though, because the OP and some seem to think the staff should see any handle everything they don't like, whether it's a valid issue or not.. without ever even being informed of it. Does that make any sense to you ? It sure doesn't to me. If someone actually wants the site to be better, then maybe using it and talking an active role in informing staff where there are issues might be an idea.. just sayin'. We may not always take an action on a report, depends what is and how the rules apply, but at minimum it might give us an opportunity to do something where it's needed. For example, someone might report a person was trolling a thread. if they actually are, then we would know about it for one thing, We might then make a post that says try to stay on topic. If the 'troll' ignored us, THEN we might have something to act on.
That, I suppose, brings me to engagement of trolls. Simply: Don't. It's really not hard. If there's a reason to report, then by all means do so. FAR more often than not, people wind up being the ones who break the rules. That always puts us in a bad position of how to deal with anything.

A forum website it's largely what it's members make it. So, you don't like where the forum is at, then do something (right) about it.

I'm unlocking this thread now. As long as discussion can be civil it will remain so (or at least until something requires a direct staff address again, for the same reasons as I stated in the former post).

You're somewhat off the mark with this. My aim in the original post was not to bash the forum but to point out the trolling. And what I mean by trolling are these parts of the definition. to antagonize (others) online by deliberately posting inflammatory, irrelevant, or offensive comments or other disruptive content. I can't think of many threads that stay on topic. Not many at all. If a thread is political fine. Whatever. But there are certain members that seem to ALWAYS ruin a perfectly good and interesting thread. The regulars here would all come up with the same list without even communicating with each other.

"The "old forum" failed mostly due to censorship. This forum remedied that and was fantastic at first. Slowly but surely all the problems of the old forum have crept into this one." Here I was actually complimenting the forum. By problems creeping in I mean the same nonsense that is going on here due to certain other members. Not how the forum is run. I will say though that I do remember people leaving the former because they were tired of posts being deleted and not being able to "swear". That was a big deal here in the beginning. I also remember that threads like the ones in the bar would absolutely not be allowed. You guys know which ones I'm talking about. And lastly the ownership and what they stood for. But this is all irrelevant because I was addressing trolls.

I could go on and on and talk about reporting and ignoring etc but I hate writing long winded responses so I'll just leave you with what I was literally in the middle of typing when the thread got locked.

"I don't have anyone on ignore. It's a great idea on paper but doesn't work as intended. You'll still see all the responses but not what they are responding to making the thread chaotic. It also doesn't stop the thread from going off the original topic which is my main issue. Not only that but you may miss out if the troll happens to actually drop a gem. Very unlikely but possible. I simply ignore what they type and move on. Even if they directly respond to something I say. You can see that in action in this very thread. As @BerettaGuy has said, it drives them crazy. 1 to 2 posts where no one responds and they will go away all on their own. That has to be a collective effort though but there are some that are so quick to take the bait despite knowing that they aren't gonna change their view. As outlandish and objectively false as it may be."

 

[ManualF150]

I'll add my $0.02 as a newish member and forum moderators for other forums.

1. I like the site because it allows for folks to express their feelings and concerns, all while being able to discuss items (guns in particular) in freedom. I think this helped folks out the past few years. Personally, I am to the point, due to this very fact, I am considering making a financial donation. This place has helped me out in many more ways than one.
2. Unfortunately throughout time, guns have turned into a negative political ideology. Simply put, restriction of other rights generally means future restrictions on our 2nd amendment rights. (eg: That long COVID thread for example...)
3. Judging from watching the past few years worth of postings and finally joining, I don't see much hate going on between members, especially with so much political crap happening.

Ask me this 5 years ago as it is now, and this place would be interesting, but with all of the turmoil that is happening around the world and on our own soil, like some said here, there is better news coverage and discussion here than anywhere else with sensible citizens. It is understandable. I would take the word of a majority of law abiding gun owners, versus anyone else.

With that being said, as with anything in the media and Internet in general: Use the information gathered at your own risk. You determine what is the right path to go down.

Now as far as trolling, in my many decades of being forum moderators/admins, I've dealt with lots of them. Even in some instances, the troll was actually correct, but they didn't need to stir up something in a particular thread that didn't need to be stirred up. I would generally move the post to the proper thread. Where it becomes a problem is when the person just doesn't get it, then it gets dicey on what needs to happen.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

I see trolling as people who post with the intention of inflaming or who post not to have a conversation, but to get under peoples skin and are unreasonable on pretty much every level. They are people who, even if you concede they have a point, just continue to be assholes about it. No one needs that and that, to me, is behavior that warrants a perma ban.

As for me, This place has become a community and home away from home for me. I know that I don't always have serious or important things to say in a given thread, but it is just my style to try to be witty and try to use humor to either lighten the mood or make a sarcastic point. I hope that hasn't landed me on anyone's ignore list. I also try to post as much gun related stuff as can. I have found that those threads will either take off or die within a few comments. I have no control over that.

I do think though, that if this forum focused as much on gun technical stuff as some would want, it would become a dry, boring place where people would only come to find a specific data point and then leave... Politics, has unfortunately dominated everyday life these days and that gets reflected here because well, we are a community and communities tend to discuss the things that affect them the most.

 

[Podmonkey]

I'll be honest, this whole thread was/is too obtuse to fit within my ADHD addled attention span but from what I gather it amounts to whining......... and that @HEX needs a hug.
Do you want a hug HEX? I'll give you a hug buddy.

 

[pshift]

IMHO, trolls exist simply to bait you into worthless discussions and arguments. We can agree to disagree and remain civilized, regardless of the discussion or forum topic.

 

[Celt]

My take, trolls are annoying but they are just a part of the internet so it is what it is.

This forum compared to the old forum. The old forum sold itself to a known antigun group, this forum is owned by enthusiasts.

Politics, well EVERYTHING is political now, and being in NY and a quasi police state most dont want to post up about new purchases etc... And how many threads can we have about the best optic, the best butt stock, the best ammo. When you've been in the game long enough it all becomes highly repetitive and most of the active posters here have been around long enough. However, there are still good useful threads out there on all sorts of different topics.

When people have gun related questions people jump in and answer. But you're just not going to find new people posting up new purchases every day, as it just isnt practical.

Although we do have new political developments every day, so this place is just as good a place as any to discuss politics. Frankly that's one of those things that keeps me coming back every day.

 

[4WHLDRFTN]

Shot my AK build today

Oops, nevermind .. thought i was on the gun forum

 

[Mosinitis]

I seen this on other forums. People with similar narrow political and ideological views form a clique and anyone who posts anything not in-line with those views is labeled a troll. They can't really argue with the message or posted facts, they just don't want to hear it. It cuts into their comfort zone. Thankfully this forum is not like that.

 

[spat]

A troll is someone who who advances an argument that they don't sincerely hold using disingenuous tactics.

If they really believe what they say, then they're not a troll, no matter how bad their argument.

If they are taking an honest devils advocate position, then they aren't a troll either.

 

[Dr. Evil]

A troll to me is someone that constantly in a snarky, condescending fashion tries to tell me the sky is brown when it is painfully obvious it is blue when looking up at it. Sure people can disagree yet I don't understand why people continue communicating when they know how others feel about the blue sky. I have always said in posts that you should just look if you want, shake your head and think to yourself, "Man, those people are crazy for thinking the sky is blue" and move on. Oh well. BTW, this place blows away the other place. Oh yeah, this is also a troll. Had a few as a kid even though they kind of freaked me out a bit.

 

[dwa12479]

My take, trolls are annoying but they are just a part of the internet so it is what it is.

This forum compared to the old forum. The old forum sold itself to a known antigun group, this forum is owned by enthusiasts.

Politics, well EVERYTHING is political now, and being in NY and a quasi police state most dont want to post up about new purchases etc... And how many threads can we have about the best optic, the best butt stock, the best ammo. When you've been in the game long enough it all becomes highly repetitive and most of the active posters here have been around long enough. However, there are still good useful threads out there on all sorts of different topics.

When people have gun related questions people jump in and answer. But you're just not going to find new people posting up new purchases every day, as it just isnt practical.

Although we do have new political developments every day, so this place is just as good a place as any to discuss politics. Frankly that's one of those things that keeps me coming back every day.

Perfectly stated.

 

[Blimey]

I understood the old forum to fail because it was purchased by an anti-gun organization.

We tend to define trolls differently. I've been called a troll here a few times, and in each occasion it's because I said something the accuser didn't like... Not because I was trolling (my definition: intentionally antagonizing another with arguments made in bad faith) , but because I said something they disagreed with politically. As is common, intellectual laziness compels one to ad hominem attacks, and "troll" is on the tip of such people's tongues. Go to search and plug in "troll" to see how the term is used.

On the topic of censorship my opinion is that in fact it is too light here; too accommodating. Candidly: my interest in this forum has waned significantly as it has become awash in conspiratorial politics. There are other members who were prolific but spend little, if any time here anymore. At least a couple of them I am extremely confident left for the same reason. The censorship I would implement would be to stop allowing certain members to use multiple threads as a toilet upon which they defecate an endless deluge of propaganda. That propaganda is readily available elsewhere for those who want to consume it.

BTW, believe this or not, but I am writing this message as I have Hex's message open in another window, and that paragraph I just wrote I read before I got to his about other members leaving because of what was allowed.

 

[ManualF150]

I see your point regarding getting called a troll. You're not a troll from your posts.

However, I'll respectfully interject in reference to the censorship you mention. I can say that (the COVID conspiracies, political agendas, etc) have been kept in areas of the forum that are meant for any type of discussion. Talking about the COVID nonsense is no different than someone talking about their views on loud car exhausts or say even my next welding project. No one is forcing you to read it or click on it. We all get enough censorship from other places. Simply put, you can ignore it if it ruffles your feathers. I do that all the time. If I don't like the topic or am not interested, I move on and ignore it.

For what it's worth, if it's not COVID, it would be something else that would need to be censored.

I've moderated forums where they don't let anything slide and it winds up hurting the forum because people go elsewhere. There has been many forums that I used to moderate that are now defunct because of too much censorship. It appears that there have been more members joining and if they donate, they only helps the forum out. It costs money to host and run a forum.

Going back to my original point in my post above, unfortunately guns and the 2A are political in nature. Whether or not you like politics, you will be forced into a corner when you are dealing with the 2A and guns. Again, to reiterate, these other areas of civil liberties and rights that get routinely stomped on, have a huge impact to all of our 2A rights. So whether or not you agree with what is being said in those threads, you don't need to read them or post to them. However, just by the title of the thread, it makes you step back and think a little bit -- how does this affect "my" rights as responsible gun owner? In other words, no one is twisting your wrist to click on them or let alone respond to them.

I do enjoy being here, and it's ranked one of my popular places to get good gun information, spark up interesting conversations, and meet people.

 

[Tisto]

My $.02

Regarding censorship, I have noticed a few times that a thread just disappeared completely. No personal attacks, no threats, nothing critical about the forum or it's members, no perceived reason for it to be deleted, but gone none the less. I don't pretend to know why, nor will I accuse any of the mods of censoring certain people, but it does raise an eyebrow sometimes as to why certain things disappear.

This is just a general observation of mine, and is in no way intended to be about any specific instance. The times I can recall a thread disappearing are/were not originated by any one member in particular.