What is the legal consensus on the juggernaut hellfighter kit in NY?

[Marine Cpl]

I see your above cases. They did not make any determination aside from "out of state definitions do not matter here". And even those are not binding.

None of my arguments rely on out of state definitions.

So, what part of the law suggests that ability and potential ability are the same thing ?

Every definition I know of an ability is something that you are capable of doing right now, not something that you have the potential to do later.

Yours rely on feelings, wants, and logic according to what you consider a fixed mag to be. That’s even worse than this guy trying to use another state’s definition.

The whole point of me bringing that case up was to show you that if they wanted to get you they would not consider your logic or any other states definition. In that particular case they were charging him because they believed that his rifle had the Ability to except another magazine that can be detached. They wouldn’t have pursued the case if they thought the rifle couldn’t accept one.

 

[RugerM77]

Someone should just start selling non- detachable magazines

 

[Jem45472]

Someone should just start selling non- detachable magazines

They do. It's called an sks. And also safe act legal. But what do you know, you can even remove those magazines with hand tools.

 

[spat]

Yours rely on feelings, wants, and logic according to what you consider a fixed mag to be. That’s even worse than this guy trying to use another state’s definition.

The whole point of me bringing that case up was to show you that if they wanted to get you they would not consider your logic or any other states definition. In that particular case they were charging him because they believed that his rifle had the Ability to except another magazine that can be detached. They wouldn’t have pursued the case if they thought the rifle couldn’t accept one.

Yes, I rely on logic. Feelings and wants are irrelevant. I'm getting out of this state shortly anyway.

There is no logic you can apply that excludes most of the magazine fixing methods people are using that doesn't also exclude many rifles that are widely acknowledged to have fixed magazines (like the SKS).

Your stretch that anything that could ever be converted back to a detachable magazine means it has the ability to accept one is fatally flawed.

 

[Chevusa]

Someone should just start selling non- detachable magazines

No because according to the only person here that doesn’t “get it”, even if sold as non-detachable, it would still have the ABILITY if you used unlimited specialized tools and machinery, experts in fabricating and manufacturing, had an unlimited budget, and unlimited time. Every rifle would have the ABILITY, to accept a detachable magazine. See how silly this has become?

Did you buy your fixed magazine AR from a NY FFL? If so you are compliant. They had every incentive in the world to ensure it was. After all, it’s their freedom and livelihood at stake. These transactions are made hundreds or thousands of times a day throughout the state. The sky isn’t falling. Carry on.

 

[Marine Cpl]

No because according to the only person here that doesn’t “get it”, even if sold as non-detachable, it would still have the ABILITY if you used unlimited specialized tools and machinery, experts in fabricating and manufacturing, had an unlimited budget, and unlimited time. Every rifle would have the ABILITY, to accept a detachable magazine. See how silly this has become?

Did you buy your fixed magazine AR from a NY FFL? If so you are compliant. They had every incentive in the world to ensure it was. After all, it’s their freedom and livelihood at stake. These transactions are made hundreds or thousands of times a day throughout the state. The sky isn’t falling. Carry on.

LOL. Really? You are going to tell me that FFL’s know the law? I can provide you with dozens of examples that say otherwise.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Yes, I rely on logic. Feelings and wants are irrelevant. I'm getting out of this state shortly anyway.

There is no logic you can apply that excludes most of the magazine fixing methods people are using that doesn't also exclude many rifles that are widely acknowledged to have fixed magazines (like the SKS).

Your stretch that anything that could ever be converted back to a detachable magazine means it has the ability to accept one is fatally flawed.

I’m not stretching anything. I’m going by what the actual law says as written without any verbal or written gymnastics like the ADA was going by in the above case. They clearly believed that the MR2 was not legal. Look at Footnote 3.

Footnote 3:

The Court recognizes that the People's interpretation of the impact of an MR2 on the lawfulness of a semi-automatic rifle is opposite to that of defendant, and declines to make a determination as to whether the installation of an MR2 renders a rifle inside or outside the scope of the definition of assault rifle. In this Court's view, such a determination should be left to the trier of fact.

So “the people” which means the state was actually were going by what is actually written in the law as far as if the magazine was detachable before the whole case got thrown out due to the illegal search. Who would have thought that such a thing could be possible?

 

[squib]

You guys are still at it
Lets close this show Oprah style:

You get an Other, You get an Other,You get an Other,You get an Other,You get an Other,You get an Other, And You get an Other,

 

[spat]

I’m not stretching anything. I’m going by what the law says. Just the ADA was going by in the above case.

You keep saying that, but you have not pointed out anywhere in the law where the potential to be modified to accept a magazine equates to the ability to accept one.

Ability means the capablility right now in it's current configuration, not the possibility to be eventually converted to be capable.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Fact. The ADA considered it not to be a fixed mag to pursue charges.

Fact. The Appeals Court recognized that the prosecutor’s interpretation of a fixed mag is different from the defendant’s interpretation.

Fact. Since the Appeals did not make a determination and instead said that it would be up to the prosecutor in a trial to make it while throwing the case out anyway for other reasons, there still isn’t a determination made and won’t be one until the next arrest that goes to trial.

That arrest could be you, your neighbor, a family member, ect. But when it does happen that person will have to fight tooth and nail to prove himself at the expense of time, money, and freedom if he was so unlucky to find himself arrested for one. All it takes is a red flag, fire, wife or kid calls the cops, neighbor says you threatened him, a fight on the street, ect. Some may think it could never happen to them. Well there is a member here on this forum who had to turn his guns in due to a fight on the street. If that happens to you, anything could happen

My advice. Don’t play the game with devices like the OP, bullet button, or prince 50 if you cannot afford to defend yourself. If you cannot afford to defend yourself and are going to fix the magazine, make sure it cannot be removed easily. Make sure the prosecution cannot insert a pin or turn a screw or just pull the rear pin to drop the magazine in a courtroom.

What’s the point to fix the magazine like that anyway? Just fix it to where there’s no doubt that it cannot be removed through easy means and just write of that lower. Keep a complete spare lower with a stock attached in the attic for when needed. All it takes is 10 seconds to switch the lower. We do not have constructive intent in this state. It’s totally legal to have an unused lower in the attic. And if that is too risky, attach a bolt action upper to it.

 

[BDinPutnam]

You guys are still at it
Lets close this show Oprah style:

You get an Other, You get an Other,You get an Other,You get an Other,You get an Other,You get an Other, And You get an Other,

YOUR BROTHER AND YOUR MOTHER GET AN OTHER!!!

 

[Jem45472]

What’s the point to fix the magazine like that anyway? Just fix it to where there’s no doubt that it cannot be removed through easy means and just write of that lower. Keep a complete spare lower with a stock attached in the attic for when needed. All it takes is 10 seconds to switch the lower. We do not have constructive intent in this state. It’s totally legal to have an unused lower in the attic. And if that is too risky, attach a bolt action upper to it.

This interests me a bit. I'd like to know your opinion on what would happen if I was arrested and charged with my ar pistol. On top of the normal trying to defend my interpretation of what a fixed mag is, I also have the argument that the state has allowed it on my permit.

What's your thoughts on the outcome of that?

 

[Marine Cpl]

This interests me a bit. I'd like to know your opinion on what would happen if I was arrested and charged with my ar pistol. On top of the normal trying to defend my interpretation of what a fixed mag is, I also have the argument that the state has allowed it on my permit.

What's your thoughts on the outcome of that?

At the end of the day, it’s on you. I can register a stock Glock and then add a second handgrip to it.

Or I can register a Glock 17 that I bought from you that you converted to fully automatic and got it on my permit.

Or I can register a manually operated AR pistol with a Tier 5 bolt catch and then later it’s determined that it wasn’t manually operated at all.

Or I can register a target Ruger .22 pistol that comes with a barrel shroud that the FFL has no idea was illegal.

Nobody inspects firearms going on permits. Only the NYPD does that. The liability is entirely on you.

 

[Jem45472]

At the end of the day, it’s on you. I can register a stock Glock and then add a second handgrip to it.

Or I can register a Glock 17 that I bought from you that you converted to fully automatic and got it on my permit.

Or I can register a manually operated AR pistol with a Tier 5 bolt catch and then later it’s determined that it wasn’t manually operated at all.

Or I can register a target Ruger .22 pistol that comes with a barrel shroud that the FFL has no idea was illegal.

Nobody inspects firearms going on permits. Only the NYPD does that. The liability is entirely on you.

Yes, but I wasn't talking about what I could modify. I gave you a scenario of my legally owned ar pistol as it sits if it was confiscated. No way are they going to convict me for an assault weapon. Magazine issue aside, it's on my NYS granted permit. You can't even tell me that they don't do inspections, because of the damn new recertification process. The state police know damn well what a 5.56 listed caliber pistol is in their database.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Yes, but I wasn't talking about what I could modify. I gave you a scenario of my legally owned ar pistol as it sits if it was confiscated. No way are they going to convict me for an assault weapon. Magazine issue aside, it's on my NYS granted permit. You can't even tell me that they don't do inspections, because of the damn new recertification process. The state police know damn well what a 5.56 listed caliber pistol is in their database.

Did you miss the example I gave that I can put a full auto Glock 17 on my permit that I bought from you that’s you modified and had shipped to my FFL and that my county would allow me to add it to my permit without inspecting it?

Nobody inspects it. Even an AR pistol. Who inspected your mag lock device? The state police? Nobody did. You either put one on yourself or you had one shipped with one installed put together by someone else either as a complete pistol or just a stripped lower with the mag lock installed. The only inspection you would have which would be meaningless would be from the FFL if you got it shipped to him with one installed. And we all know that FFL’s don’t know shit. One will say one thing and another will say something else. Hell, Bullet Guy used to glue on muzzle devices on 14.5 inch barrels against ATF regulations and sell them to members here.

At the end of the day, compliance is entirely on the owner. The state police just take the registration from the county and your recertification every 5 years. That’s it. Hell, they say themselves that it must be permanent.

If ever arrested and your fixed mag pistol isn’t fixed according to what the DA thinks is fixed, he or she can charge you for it regardless if it’s registered on your permit.

A bullet button is a standard magazine release that only consists of a cover over the mag release that prevents your finger from pressing the button beneath it. It works the same as any magazine release. The only difference is that your finger is too big so a pin has to be used to get through the covering in order to press the button. Plenty of FFL’s have transferred rifles and pistols with those too. The state police have no idea what mag locking device you used.

 

[spat]

Fact. The ADA considered it not to be a fixed mag to pursue charges.

Fact. The Appeals Court recognized that the prosecutor’s interpretation of a fixed mag is different from the defendant’s interpretation.

Fact. Since the Appeals did not make a determination and instead said that it would be up to the prosecutor in a trial to make it while throwing the case out anyway for other reasons, there still isn’t a determination made and won’t be one until the next arrest that goes to trial.

That arrest could be you, your neighbor, a family member, ect. But when it does happen that person will have to fight tooth and nail to prove himself at the expense of time, money, and freedom if he was so unlucky to find himself arrested for one. All it takes is a red flag, fire, wife or kid calls the cops, neighbor says you threatened him, a fight on the street, ect. Some may think it could never happen to them. Well there is a member here on this forum who had to turn his guns in due to a fight on the street. If that happens to you, anything could happen

My advice. Don’t play the game with devices like the OP, bullet button, or prince 50 if you cannot afford to defend yourself. If you cannot afford to defend yourself and are going to fix the magazine, make sure it cannot be removed easily. Make sure the prosecution cannot insert a pin or turn a screw or just pull the rear pin to drop the magazine in a courtroom.

What’s the point to fix the magazine like that anyway? Just fix it to where there’s no doubt that it cannot be removed through easy means and just write of that lower. Keep a complete spare lower with a stock attached in the attic for when needed. All it takes is 10 seconds to switch the lower. We do not have constructive intent in this state. It’s totally legal to have an unused lower in the attic. And if that is too risky, attach a bolt action upper to it.

Certainly there are some methods of "fixing" a magazine that don't really make it a fixed magazine, and there is no good definition in NYS law about it.

In the past though you have taken the extreme position that nearly all "fixed" magazines aren't "fixed" enough, including a stock SKS.

I (and most others) don't believe that much is necessary.

There are 2 reasonable definitions one could argue in court.

1. If the gun must be disassembled far enough that it cannot fire with the magazine removed, then it is fixed. This is problematic because there are many guns with a "magazine safety" that won't fire with the magazine removed, and nobody calls those fixed magazines.

2. That the removal of the magazine would require enough work to legally constitute "gunsmithing" that would require more than a retail sale type of FFL to engage in as a business.

I think compliance methods that rely on the first definition are on shaky ground, for the reason I stated above.

I think the second is pretty well defensible. The prosecutor can't "gunsmith" a legal collection of parts into an illegal gun, so it stands to reason he can't gunsmith a legal gun into an illegal one.

They can't take the upper off my AR pistol and swap it with the one on my featureless rifle to make an illegal SBR for instance, so it stands to reason they can't do anything that drastic just to remove a magazine and still call it "detachable".

 

[Jem45472]

Certainly there are some methods of "fixing" a magazine that don't really make it a fixed magazine, and there is no good definition in NYS law about it.

In the past though you have taken the extreme position that nearly all "fixed" magazines aren't "fixed" enough, including a stock SKS.

I (and most others) don't believe that much is necessary.

There are 2 reasonable definitions one could argue in court.

1. If the gun must be disassembled far enough that it cannot fire with the magazine removed, then it is fixed. This is problematic because there are many guns with a "magazine safety" that won't fire with the magazine removed, and nobody calls those fixed magazines.

2. That the removal of the magazine would require enough work to legally constitute "gunsmithing" that would require more than a retail sale type of FFL to engage in as a business.

I think compliance methods that rely on the first definition are on shaky ground, for the reason I stated above.

I think the second is pretty well defensible. The prosecutor can't "gunsmith" a legal collection of parts into an illegal gun, so it stands to reason he can't gunsmith a legal gun into an illegal one.

They can't take the upper off my AR pistol and swap it with the one on my featureless rifle to make an illegal SBR for instance, so it stands to reason they can't do anything that drastic just to remove a magazine and still call it "detachable".

I'm not sure how the courts work, but I'm guessing the prosecution would not be allowed tools to prove to a jury that my magazine lock does not constitute a fixed mag. No tools, and I cannot remove or install a magazine period.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Certainly there are some methods of "fixing" a magazine that don't really make it a fixed magazine, and there is no good definition in NYS law about it.

In the past though you have taken the extreme position that nearly all "fixed" magazines aren't "fixed" enough, including a stock SKS.

I (and most others) don't believe that much is necessary.

There are 2 reasonable definitions one could argue in court.

1. If the gun must be disassembled far enough that it cannot fire with the magazine removed, then it is fixed. This is problematic because there are many guns with a "magazine safety" that won't fire with the magazine removed, and nobody calls those fixed magazines.

2. That the removal of the magazine would require enough work to legally constitute "gunsmithing" that would require more than a retail sale type of FFL to engage in as a business.

I think compliance methods that rely on the first definition are on shaky ground, for the reason I stated above.

I think the second is pretty well defensible. The prosecutor can't "gunsmith" a legal collection of parts into an illegal gun, so it stands to reason he can't gunsmith a legal gun into an illegal one.

They can't take the upper off my AR pistol and swap it with the one on my featureless rifle to make an illegal SBR for instance, so it stands to reason they can't do anything that drastic just to remove a magazine and still call it "detachable".

I still believe that to be the case that all fixed magazine rifles with one feature are illegal if you go by what is actually written in the law since there is no definition stating that the a tool must be used to remove the magazine. I still do. But I also know it wasn’t the intent. The intention was to not include that definition to prevent usage of the bullet button.

I only state it because now that’s what it means if you go by what’s written and only by what’s written.

With that said, I know they aren’t going to bother anyone just like they do not bother anyone that has ammo in the same car as their rifle. According to the law as written, that constitutes a loaded weapon even though it’s not loaded. But in both cases, that is what the law says.

And with that said, “No one is going to get bagged if they find themselves in the courtroom with a gun that has a magazine that cannot be removed unless it is disassembled or power tools and or heat need to be used to remove the magazine.” But if all it takes is a simple motion to remove it, you can find yourself having to explain just like that guy in that courtroom had to. That is why you see me telling newbies that the rifle can accept another magazine that quickly detaches. You’ll never see me say that when someone says that they epoxied a screw into the magazine release.

Why? Because what will the jury say when they see the prosecution start using a heat torch and a drill to remove the magazine? Not guilty is what they will say. But if they see the prosecution use the tip of a pen or just temporarily pull the rear pin to keep dropping the magazine over and over and inserting another one, chances are greater that they will say guilty.

 

[Jem45472]

I still believe that to be the case that all fixed magazine rifles with one feature are illegal if you go by what is actually written in the law since there is no definition stating that the a tool must be used to remove the magazine. I still do. But I also know it wasn’t the intent. The intention was to not include that definition to prevent usage of the bullet button.

I only state it because now that’s what it means if you go by what’s written and only by what’s written.

With that said, I know they aren’t going to bother anyone just like they do not bother anyone that has ammo in the same car as their rifle. According to the law as written, that constitutes a loaded weapon even though it’s not loaded. But in both cases, that is what the law says.

And with that said, “No one is going to get bagged if they find themselves in the courtroom with a gun that has a magazine that cannot be removed unless it is disassembled or power tools and or heat need to be used to remove the magazine.” But if all it takes is a simple motion to remove it, you can find yourself having to explain just like that guy in that courtroom had to. That is why you see me telling newbies that the rifle can accept another magazine that quickly detaches. You’ll never see me say that when someone says that they epoxied a screw into the magazine release.

Why? Because what will the jury say when they see the prosecution start using a heat torch and a drill to remove the magazine? Not guilty is what they will say. But if they see the prosecution use the tip of a pen or just temporarily pull the rear pin to keep dropping the magazine over and over and inserting another one, chances are greater that they will say guilty.

This is a nice reasonable response, and the one I have been waiting for. In 5he end we all know these are poorly written laws. So bad that prosecutors are willing to do anything to keep this kind of case from seeing a courtroom. And that's just not right.

 

[Chevusa]

Nobody sells a model with a bullet button or hell fighter kit. Buy your rifle from a dealer and you're covered. Or use a fixed mag kit similar to the ones on the hundreds or thousands of legal rifles sold every day in NYS. It's not that complicated. Ability to accept means it operates like a normal AR. Bring your tool box into court and start taking things apart and any reasonable person is going to see right through it. It doesn't pass the "smell test". The law doesn't say "ability to change out a mag in under 5 minutes". Does the rifle operate normally or was it modified to comply with the spirit of the law? Use your head and you'll be just fine.

 

[Chevusa]

Why? Because what will the jury say when they see the prosecution start using a heat torch and a drill to remove the magazine? Not guilty is what they will say.

Wow you're finally starting to come around. Have you seen the light? Just a few posts ago your argument was along the lines of: IT STILL HAS THE ABILITY NO MATTER WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO TO IT!! THERE IS ALWAYS A WAY!! HOLDING THE MAG IN PLACE WITH YOUR HAND MEANS IT HAS BEEN ACCEPTED BY THE RIFLE!! Have you finally sobered up?

 

[Marine Cpl]

Wow you're finally starting to come around. Have you seen the light? Just a few posts ago your argument was along the lines of: IT STILL HAS THE ABILITY NO MATTER WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO TO IT!! THERE IS ALWAYS A WAY!! HOLDING THE MAG IN PLACE WITH YOUR HAND MEANS IT HAS BEEN ACCEPTED BY THE RIFLE!! Have you finally sobered up?

I still believe that to be the case if you go by what’s written. I’m just pointing out what’s written so that it could be understood that it was poorly written with unintended consequences. Just like this jem that can one day be used against you.


15. "Loaded firearm" means any firearm loaded with ammunition or any
firearm which is possessed by one who, at the same time, possesses a
quantity of ammunition which may be used to discharge such firearm.

 

[Chevusa]

I still believe that to be the case if you go by what’s written. I’m just pointing out what’s written so that it could be understood that it was poorly written with unintended consequences. Just like this jem that can one day be used against you.


15. "Loaded firearm" means any firearm loaded with ammunition or any
firearm which is possessed by one who, at the same time, possesses a
quantity of ammunition which may be used to discharge such firearm.

You are forgetting the fact that a jury of your peers have to convict you. No reasonable person would go along with a shop class going on in the court room. It defies reason and lacks common sense. The intent of the law was to slow down reloads. A bolt preventing the mag release from functioning normally accomplishes that. Nothing is permanent. Permanent is not in the law. Even if it was, anything you make permanent I can undo with enough time, knowledge and tools/equipment.

 

[Jem45472]

You are forgetting the fact that a jury of your peers have to convict you. No reasonable person would go along with a shop class going on in the court room. It defies reason and lacks common sense. The intent of the law was to slow down reloads. A bolt preventing the mag release from functioning normally accomplishes that. Nothing is permanent. Permanent is not in the law. Even if it was, anything you make permanent I can undo with enough time, knowledge and tools/equipment.

I believe you're wrong about this. The intent of the law was to ban the sale of ar and ak style rifles, at the same time forcing anyone who owned them to register with the state. Miserable failure all the way around. If all they wanted was slower reloads, things would have been written a little more clearly.

 

[Chevusa]

I believe you're wrong about this. The intent of the law was to ban the sale of ar and ak style rifles, at the same time forcing anyone who owned them to register with the state. Miserable failure all the way around. If all they wanted was slower reloads, things would have been written a little more clearly.

Then they would have banned them. They had the power and means to do whatever they wanted.

 

[Jem45472]

They tried to with the terminology, and feature list. You can't just ban the Colt such and such because there are too many companies making them. This was supposed to be NY's version of an "assault weapon" ban hence the registration period.

 

[Marine Cpl]

You are forgetting the fact that a jury of your peers have to convict you. No reasonable person would go along with a shop class going on in the court room. It defies reason and lacks common sense. The intent of the law was to slow down reloads. A bolt preventing the mag release from functioning normally accomplishes that. Nothing is permanent. Permanent is not in the law. Even if it was, anything you make permanent I can undo with enough time, knowledge and tools/equipment.

Correct. Permanent is not in the law. But neither is barely fixed. At the end of the day, it boils down to what the prosecution shows the jury. And like you said, “ A jury of your peers will have to convict you.” So when they see the prosecution show up there with safety glasses, gloves, and a heating torch to remove the magazine, they will tell the prosecution to go kick rocks. But if they see the prosecution repeatedly eject the magazine by sticking the point of a pen in there to drop the magazine or pulling the rear pin to drop it or turning a screw 3 turns and repeatedly dropping the magazine and inserting it over and over again, you have some explaining to do and mental gymnastics like what is being done here and the quoting of other states laws that are irrelevant is all you would have.

That’s why it’s smart to make it semi permanent. What benefit do you gain from not doing so? Lowers are cheap. Spend the 50 bucks and keep a spare and sacrifice the lower you are actually trying to use legally by making it semi permanent for your own protection. Bottom line... Nobody here has freedom, time, and money to spare for this nonsense.

One sacrificed lower with epoxy or red loctite is well worth the avoidance of all that. Just keep another lower on standby. They are cheap. About the same cost as some of these mag lock devices. 45 bucks for peace of mind.

Palmetto State Armory Liberty Lower - 1535

A little History: The Moultrie flag was designed by Colonel William Moultrie by commission in 1775. The blue feild represents the color of the

palmettostatearmory.com

 

[Chevusa]

Correct. Permanent is not in the law. But neither is barely fixed. At the end of the day, it boils down to what the prosecution shows the jury. And like you said, “ A jury of your peers will have to convict you.” So when they see the prosecution show up there with safety glasses, gloves, and a heating torch to remove the magazine, they will tell the prosecution to go kick rocks. But if they see the prosecution repeatedly eject the magazine by sticking the point of a pen in there to drop the magazine or pulling the rear pin to drop it or turning a screw 3 turns and repeatedly dropping the magazine and inserting it over and over again, you have some explaining to do and mental gymnastics like what is being done here and the quoting of other states laws that are irrelevant is all you would have.

That’s why it’s smart to make it semi permanent. What benefit do you gain from not doing so? Lowers are cheap. Spend the 50 bucks and keep a spare and sacrifice the lower you are actually trying to use legally by making it semi permanent for your own protection. Bottom line... Nobody here has freedom, time, and money to spare for this nonsense.

One sacrificed lower with epoxy or red loctite is well worth the avoidance of all that. Just keep another lower on standby. They are cheap. About the same cost as some of these mag lock devices. 45 bucks for peace of mind.

Palmetto State Armory Liberty Lower - 1535

A little History: The Moultrie flag was designed by Colonel William Moultrie by commission in 1775. The blue feild represents the color of the

palmettostatearmory.com

You keep referencing the bullet button. Nobody is using that or is here arguing for it. You cannot remove my mag with a pen. Bring in your Allen key set and use your tools to remove my mag. Then take the jury on a bus ride to the local gunsmith and buy a catch spring. When you return to court and install your newly purchased part into my rifle you will then have a rifle capable of accepting your magazine. The jury will laugh at you and the judge might have you escorted out of his courtroom.

None of this will ever matter because if a cop ever comes across my rifle he can push the mag release as hard as he wants but it will not drop the mag. Therefore it is in compliance.

 

[Blimey]

They tried to with the terminology, and feature list. You can't just ban the Colt such and such because there are too many companies making them. This was supposed to be NY's version of an "assault weapon" ban hence the registration period.

Maybe the "intent" was to ban them, but the actual intent as could be argued in court was as mentioned to limit reload speed, and that's all prosecution would assert in court.

Banning ARs is easy. Simply ban them: Any AR-pattern rifle is now banned. There's nothing to it. If it accepts a standard milspect +/- AR upper, or AR trigger mechanism, etc. it's now illegal. They didn't do that for whatever reason. Incompetence probably.

 

[Blimey]

You keep referencing the bullet button. Nobody is using that or is here arguing for it. You cannot remove my mag with a pen. Bring in your Allen key set and use your tools to remove my mag. Then take the jury on a bus ride to the local gunsmith and buy a catch spring. When you return to court and install your newly purchased part into my rifle you will then have a rifle capable of accepting your magazine. The jury will laugh at you and the judge might have you escorted out of his courtroom.

None of this will ever matter because if a cop ever comes across my rifle he can push the mag release as hard as he wants but it will not drop the mag. Therefore it is in compliance.

Until this or unless it ever goes to court we'll never have an answer on this because there is no precedent. I can appreciate that a moment with an allen key and then it's a fully functioning AR. But at the same time, until you apply that tool it is definitely legal. Because the mag can't drop. And it requires not just a quick pull of a lever but some tool disassembly to get it to.

None of us would want to be in court regardless. There are fixed mag ARs sold in this state and nobody in the 7 years since SAFE was passed has been charged in NY for a fixed mag AR with that the only offense.