What sights for HD shotgun?

[Target]

I have a Home Defence / Tactifool style shot gun -- cut down barrel, +2 mag extension, ATI pistol grip / stock, side saddle.....

I cut down the 28" rib vented bird barrel and was going to drill and tap it to relocate the bead sight.

Should I get a Hi-Vis / Truglo / XS Big Dot style sight for it instead?

Should it have front & rear sights? (I do not have an easy way to attach a rear sight to the receiver).
The original vented rib was lower at the muzzle than the rear.Now it is the same height. will this affecti POA/POI?

 

[cgrutt]

Personally, I would run a HD shotgun with ghost rings.

 

[Podmonkey]

A ghost ring would be the most versatile setup, allowing for ranged shots with slugs and fast acquisition up close. However for exclusive use with buckshot at across the room distances any kind of a high viz front sight/bead would be fine. Maybe try to find a tritium one? As for POI, at HD range with shot I suspect it wouldn't make overmuch difference but you'll need to patern your gun anyway to find out. Dnot forget a light if you haven't got one already.

 

[Darth]

Sights on a HD shotgun!?


Ok, what's the punchline?

 

[MikeM]

HD 5-10 yards, do you really need a sight with a shotgun? Your adrenaline will make you point and shoot no matter what you have on board.

 

[Podmonkey]

Sights on a HD shotgun!?


Ok, what's the punchline?

Have you ever made anything resembling a technical contribution on either of these forums? Do you own a shotgun? If you do what is it used for and what is the sighting arrangement? Do you like that arrangement? If so why?

 

[Darth]

Have you ever made anything resembling a technical contribution on either of these forums? Do you own a shotgun? If you do what is it used for and what is the sighting arrangement? Do you like that arrangement? If so why?

I own 3 . Is this the point when the cameramen come out from behind the curtains and I then claim that I was just here for the cookies?

 

[Podmonkey]

I own 3 . Is this the point when the cameramen come out from behind the curtains and I then claim that I was just here for the cookies?

This is the point where you offer a technical opinion or advice related to the topic................

 

[Darth]

This is the point where you offer a technical opinion or advice related to the topic................

I thought I did that already.

Oh well, for those slow in the class:

I own 3 shotguns. Two with a bead. One with TruGlo turkey sites. My HD gun it's a PGO with a bead. The point of my jesting post above, before the interruption by Buzz Killington, was that generally HD shotguns don't have or need sights. It's mostly point shooting.

How's that one for you? Next time just drop a form in the suggesting box.

 

[Podmonkey]

I thought I did that already.

Oh well, for those slow in the class:

I own 3 shotguns. Two with a bead. One with TruGlo turkey sites. My HD gun it's a PGO with a bead. The point of my jesting post above, before the interruption by Buzz Killington, was that generally HD shotguns don't have or need sights. It's mostly point shooting.

How's that one for you? Next time just drop a form in the suggesting box.

You need a reference point to aim the gun and a bead is a sight. At close distances, as you probably know, the spread of a shotgun is tight enough to require actual aiming of the gun. So yes, shotguns do need sights but as I said earlier a bead would suffice for HD with buckshot. But I think something with a night sight capability would be very desirable. I myself like the ghost ring arrangement on my 590A1.

 

[cgrutt]

Had a Benelli M4 before I regrettably had to sell it and it came from the factory with... wait for it... yep, ghost ring sights but I guess they don't know anything about HD shotguns (or CQC for that matter) either. Just saying...

 

[Darth]

You need a reference point to aim the gun and a bead is a sight. At close distances, as you probably know, the spread of a shotgun is tight enough to require actual aiming of the gun. So yes, shotguns do need sights but as I said earlier a bead would suffice for HD with buckshot. But I think something with a night sight capability would be very desirable. I myself like the ghost ring arrangement on my 590A1.

We are talking about point shooting though.

The thumb of your left hand, on the forend, should be pointing at the target. Nothing to do with spread. Just point shooting basics, as I was taught.

 

[Podmonkey]

Hell, a red dot would be great if the OP has a way to mount one.

 

[Podmonkey]

We are talking about point shooting though.

The thumb of your left hand, on the forend, should be pointing at the target. Nothing to do with spread. Just point shooting basics, as I was taught.

Shooting a shotgun for HD/SD is different than shooting trap/skeet. You gotta insure a hit and that means putting your sights, whatever they may be, on your target. Tight spread of the shot at close range makes it relatively easy to miss without aiming.

 

[Darth]

Had a Benelli M4 before I regrettably had to sell it and it came from the factory with... wait for it... yep, ghost ring sights but I guess they don't know anything about HD shotguns (or CQC for that matter) either. Just saying...

That's probably why all Glocks come with ghost rings too.


Unless point shooting occurs with both, no matter the sights.


Hell, why not a Zeiss 4-12?


I do think I'll buy a Benelli shortly though.

 

[cgrutt]

That's probably why all Glocks come with ghost rings too.


Unless point shooting occurs with both, no matter the sights.


Hell, why not a Zeiss 4-12?

You're assuming we're all talking about point shooting. I'm not. Can you imagine a HD scenario where you need to shoot weak side let's say because there is concealment opportunity on strong side or injury, etc?

 

[Darth]

Shooting a shotgun for HD/SD is different than shooting trap/skeet. You gotta insure a hit and that means putting your sights, whatever they may be, on your target. Tight spread of the shot at close range makes it relatively easy to miss without aiming.

True. I use sites for trap. Not for HD.

Not sure of the confusion?

 

[Darth]

You're assuming we're all talking about point shooting. I'm not. Can you imagine a HD scenario where you need to shoot weak side let's say because there is concealment opportunity on strong side or injury, etc?

I'm talking about a HD gun. No matter the shooting style.

I can imagine a scenario in which I need to do a handstand and shoot the beak off if one of those drinking dipping bird office desk ornaments too, but it's not likely.

So yeah, sights for a HD shotgun seems like an oxymoron, but that's just me.

 

[Podmonkey]

That's probably why all Glocks come with ghost rings too.


Unless point shooting occurs with both, no matter the sights.


Hell, why not a Zeiss 4-12?


I do think I'll buy a Benelli shortly though.

aperture sights are not typically used on handguns because the aperture works best when fairly close to the eye. Point shooting means indexing on the target by other means than sight alignment, such as along the barrel or slide. Its an emergency technique for point blank shooting. Anything much beyond a few yards will require getting some kind of sigh picture together or you will likely just miss your target

 

[Podmonkey]

True. I use sites for trap. Not for HD.

Not sure of the confusion?

I gotta ask, how do you know what you do or do not use for HD shotgun aiming? Have you had to use a shotgun in a HF/SD role? I have not. I'm just going off information from reputable scources, Louis Awerbuck for example, and experimentation on the range. I know when I pattern my gun I'm looking to hit specific target areas and I use the sights to do that.

 

[spat]

I'm talking about a HD gun. No matter the shooting style.

I can imagine a scenario in which I need to do a handstand and shoot the beak off if one of those drinking dipping bird office desk ornaments too, but it's not likely.

So yeah, sights for a HD shotgun seems like an oxymoron, but that's just me.

Can't hurt to have the sights,. But I agree, in most HD scenarios, if you take the time to get a sight picture, you have probably missed your opportunity, and drastically reduced your situational awareness.

 

[cgrutt]

Just like the good ole days, LOL...

 

[Podmonkey]

Just like the good ole days, LOL...

Any discussion taking place outside the political forum is a win. I prodded @Darth for more infirmation and I got it. Yay.

 

[cgrutt]

Can't hurt to have the sights,. But I agree, in most HD scenarios, if you take the time to get a sight picture, you have probably missed your opportunity, and drastically reduced your situational awareness.

So now are we talking most HD scenarios with a shotgun or perhaps with a pistol or "gasp" MSR?

 

[spat]

So now are we talking most HD scenarios with a shotgun or perhaps with a pistol or "gasp" MSR?

The OP was specifically about a HD shotgun, so HD scenarios seem to be appropriate.

 

[cgrutt]

The OP was specifically about a HD shotgun, so HD scenarios seem to be appropriate.

Yeah, HD scenario got it. I'm just wondering if not obtaining sight picture and losing situational awareness only applies when using a shotgun or any gun in a HD scenario.

In all seriousness, in my home for example my bedroom is second level to left of staircase my eleven year old's bedroom is to right on opposite side of house. There is a bathroom between his room and guest room with hallway. As BG is coming up stairs and if I'm lucky enough to be up, with HD gun in hand, top of stairway puts BG directly between the hot end of the barrel and my sleeping boy. Do I point and shoot or aquire a sight picture? Serious question.

 

[spat]

Yeah, HD scenario got it. I'm just wondering if not obtaining sight picture and losing situational awareness only applies when using a shotgun or any gun in a HD scenario.

It doesn't apply to all HD scenarios obviously, you might need to take an aimed shot. But a lot of the time, yea. 10 feet is a long distance inside a typical home, If you can't point shoot a COM hit at 10' without a sight picture, you need some serious practice.

 

[cgrutt]

It doesn't apply to all HD scenarios obviously, you might need to take an aimed shot. But a lot of the time, yea. 10 feet is a long distance inside a typical home, If you can't point shoot a COM hit at 10' without a sight picture, you need some serious practice.

I'm not saying point shooting a HD shotgun is without merit I'm responding to @Darth 's comments that a ghost ring sight (whether on a Glock or a Zeiss LMFAO) is "an OXMORON" for a HD shotgun. Obviously I don't agree.

Also see example that I added in my prior response.

 

[Acer-m14]

what site on a HD 12ga cyl bore moss 500 .. lets see ,, at this time mine has a little bead of brass on the barrel , daylight time 24/25 in skeet .. your not getting out of the house during daylight hours ..
so the only thing i would add would be a flashlight to it so i could see in the dark .. both eyes open locked on target .. natural point of aim .. BOOM .. got ya .
were talking what less then 25 feet ..

 

[Shadow2]

my personal choice for HD is ghost sites. very natural feel when shouldered, excellent with a flashlight at night. There is a reason you see them on HD shotguns.

Beaded sights offer the fastest aquisiton for moving targets. Rifle sights offer more precision, the best set up i've actually used for speed and offered accuracy where fiber optic rifle sights. They where on a Binelli M2 set up for 3 gun. they where very quick with "shot" on steel and offered slug accuracy. This was action shooting in good light you may not have the sunlight in a HD situation.

I'd recommend you try to get your hands on different options and choose what works for you.