Who still has to renew their pistol permit

[eagleridge357]

Well, you've tried to explain your point of view in your usual communicative way. I'll give you this, at least you're consistent lol. BTW, I totally forgot about the permit thing until I saw this thread.

DrEvil, the master of the snide remark!

 

[rpf427]

Also currently they don't have a clue about co registrations. This will "fix" that too.

Wow.....good point.
Hadn't even remotely thought of that.

 

[Cooolone]

Wow.....good point.
Hadn't even remotely thought of that.

Co-ownership is a primary exercise that will prevent confiscation for a variety of reasons!

Sir, where are your firearms?
Ans: How would I know, ask the other owner!
Result: Priceless puzzled look!?!?


My opinion is the State never will explain the real reasons behind centralizing all forearm ownership data under State Police control. Of course, the State's broader encroachment upon localized jurisdiction regarding the issuance of permits by county gives a large amount of power to one person as opposed to the 62 counties, thereby allowing ease of access to the data and ability to institute control over not only the data but enforcement of any action under that authority by that centralized command. We all know why... and they won't do it en mass! They will nibble at the edges, pick off the strays from the pack. Innocuous at first... Let's see who, what, where, why some recertifications are denied, then we can talk. It will happen, wait for it...

Question I present is always the same... If you are denied, what will you do about it? Will you ask nicely for it back, stomp.your feet and cry like a little baby how unfair it is? Or will you challenge the legality of it all and take it all the way to its natural conclusion? Create a precedent for the benefit of all others, not just yourself?

I can guarantee that 99% don't have the stomach or mettle for a long drawn out fight and the ability to resist the comfort of the deals thrown at them along the way... Maybe myself included... But I do know that the populace, mostly in it's entirety, are all sheep and willingly submit to the will and desires of the overlords that throw meager scraps at our feet from the table of opulence they gorge themselves at daily! We mere serfs will eventually learn our place!

 

[masterswimmer]

The real reason is not as difficult to understand if we just back into the ultimate objective of NYistan, to create the ammo database.

They are not looking to confiscate firearms. They want to restrict our rights by restricting our ability to purchase ammo. They are basically having us do their data entry for the database if we recert online. Eventually the paper docs will be entered and their database will be complete.

Once complete they'll announce to all merchants that sell ammo that the DB is up and running giving the required notice that going forward all purchases will require a background check to buy ammo. They'll institute a fee. They'll limit the amount we can purchase. Notification will be sent to monkeyface's armed minions when the limit is reached.

But what do I know? This is all conjecture.

 

[tapper3]

"Sir, the reason I pulled you over is your vehicle registration sticker appears to be out of date. I ran a records check on your license plate and our records show that, indeed, you failed to renew your registration."

A - "Officer, the state is supposed to notify my when my renewal is due and I swear I never got a notification. Maybe the post office lost it. But you can't blame me for not renewing if I never received a notification to do so."

B - "Officer, I did mail in my registration renewal the last day before the old registration expired. Why give the state my money even one day before I absolutely have to do so? I know it has been two months since I sent it in but I assume the DMV is still processing the renewal and I'll receive my new registration any day now. Or maybe the post office lost it."

C - "Officer, I did mail in my registration renewal the last day before the old registration expired and I have a receipt here somewhere that proves it. The reason I waited until the last day is I think this whole registration renewal BS is an infringement on my rights and a dick move by Andy Cumhole. So I decided if he could be a dick then I could be a dick right back and I would mail it inside a big box full of packing peanuts as my way of saying FUAC. Maybe the post office lost it."

D - "Officer, I did mail in my registration renewal the last day before the old registration expired. The reason I did this is a guy that I have never met in person but who goes by the handle of howlermonkey459 on my Subaru forum told me I would be a damned fool and Andy Cuomo french kisser if I renewed any earlier. Like I say, I have never really met howlermonkey459 but I am sure he is very smart and was giving me good advice. And I sure don't want to look like a damned fool in front of all the other howler monkeys."

E - "Officer, you and Andy Cumhole and all his other scum sucking cop minions of his can go **** yourselves. This is complete and utter bull crap and I am done bending over for unconstitutional bull crap laws."

F - "Officer, I bought this car a couple years ago and it had a registration sticker in the window when I picked it up from the dealer. I honestly had no idea that I was required to renew that registration periodically. I thought it was a lifetime registration. What's that? Every two years, you say? No chit? I never heard of that before. Geez, you would think the state would send me a notification or something. Maybe the post office lost it."

On any given day there are a lot of people driving around with expired vehicle registrations. The vast majority of them get away with it - for that day, at least.

Some do not.

 

[MilesTeg]

Some people choose not to live in fear.... to each their own I guess.

 

[tapper3]

Some people choose not to live in fear.... to each their own I guess.

Miles, you're damned right I live in fear. I live in fear of the ineptitude of bureaucracy. Whether that bureaucracy is the US Postal Service that routinely loses or misdirects mail or the government employee that misplaces a form I sent in or the NYSP that just does as they are told or the county judge that simply follows the law and lets you file your appeal later. I live in fear of some nameless, faceless drone screwing up my life.

The bottom line is we live in New York State. Not some other state. Not a free state. We have a state law which we believe is unconstitutional and know to be unjust. Be that as it may, it is a law which can have severe consequences if violated.

I encourage everyone to read the law -- NYS Penal Law sections 265 and 400. Don't look at the Safe Act web page, don't base your actions on published or rumored policies & procedures of the NYSP, don't follow the lead of some random guy who voices his opinion.

Read the legislation.

You will find IN THE LEGISLATION that permit holders are required to recertify. Period. It says nothing about you are supposed to get some notification to do so and might be able to use not getting a notification as an excuse.

You will find that failure to recertify will result in revocation of the permit. Period. There is no wriggle room on that. If the NYSP determine - rightly or wrongly - that you did not recertify when you were supposed to they will so notify your issuing authority (judge) and the revocation process WILL begin.

And you will find that such a revocation mandates that ALL firearms, rifles, and shotguns must be surrendered. Period. No provision for a grace period while you appeal.

I, too, say to each their own.

And everyone who has never had the post office screw up their mail -- raise your hands.

And everyone who has never had a clerical worker in some office screw up their paperwork -- raise your hands.

And everyone who is sure these things will NEVER happen to them -- raise your hands.

And everyone who is willing to roll those dice --

We all have only two choices here --- follow the law or suffer the consequences. And we all will follow the law eventually and grudgingly or we will become outlaws. Trusting the post office and clerical staff in Albany to not screw up a last minute filing in a FUAC protest that he will never hear about anyway is just too much of a gamble for me. If others feel they have to do that I wish them well.

Like the folks with the expired registrations, for some who choose this path it will not end well. I think we can all take that as a given. I chose not to put myself at the mercy of others, but rather to take matters into my own hands and do whatever necessary to ensure I encountered no problems. And I without reservation or shame encourage others to choose their paths wisely.

 

[tapper3]

Sorry, double posted.

 

[MilesTeg]

I have read the law numerous times and understand what is required from me. Personally I will be sending mine certified mail within the last week it's due. I have followed the law and up held my obligation. I will not worry about the what if's.

 

[soylentBlue]

For what it is worth, I received this email yesterday:

There have been several questions and misunderstandings about the
recertification process as required by the SAFE Act. As a result, I am
sending this message including an updated list from County Clerk Mike
Jankowski. Mike and Sheriff Barry Virts have been holding informational
meetings in Wayne County towns. This is a summary of their information.

This is the official statement on the NY State SAFE Act website:

“Pistol Permit Recertification
Pistol/Revolver License Recertifications are currently only required for
those permits originally issued before January 15, 2013. If your permit was
issued before January 15, 2013, the deadline to submit your recertification
is January 31, 2018. If your permit was issued on or after January 15, 2013,
the deadline to recertify is five years after the date the permit was
issued. As a permit holder, it is your responsibility to recertify your
permit whether you receive a notification letter or not.”

I’m offering these key points:
**ONLY firearm owners who have a pistol permit must recertify.
**NOT everyone will receive a letter BUT they still must recertify.
**ONLY handguns are recertified. NO long guns.
**DEADLINE to recertify is January 31, 2018 ONLY if your ORIGINAL permit was
issued PRIOR TO January 15, 2013. (This is based on the “effective date” of
the SAFE Act).
**DEADLINE for all others is determined by the date of your original permit:
“five years after the date the permit was issued.” (The date of an amendment
or new handgun purchase is irrelevant).
**FORMS (“applications”) are available online or at any State Police
station. It is not necessary to recertify online. You can mail the form to
the address listed on it. BUT mail it via CERTIFIED mail in order to
confirm it was sent and received.
** “FAILURE to recertify shall act as a revocation”of your license.
**FAILURE to recertify “can result in the loss of all fire arms including
pistols, rifles and shotguns.”


This is the most up to date information on pistol permit recertification by
the state police we have received:

1) The New York State Police web site for filing your pistol permit
recertification.

The paper application is posted on this site as well:
Firearms - Pistol/Revolver License Bureau

2) The filer will need to list on the recertification form pistols only, NOT
rifles and shotguns.

3) The recertification transaction is between the State Police and the
Filer, not the County.

4) The State Police will contact the filer to resolve any discrepancies
between the application and their existing records.

5) The goal of the State Police is to create a database for use by Law
Enforcement, Licensing Officers, and Mental Health. All applications will be
cross checked against the data bases of the DMV, Mental Health, and Federal
Criminal Data Files.

6) Not all pistol permit holders will have received a letter informing the
permit holder they need to recertify their permit. Many will not receive a
letter due to data base short comings. Whether you received a notification
letter or not you will be required to recertify your pistol permit.

7) If you held a pistol permit prior to January 15, 2013 you will need to
recertify by January 31, 2018. After that date, recertification is due 5
years from the date of issuance.

8) The State Police WILL NOT be issuing a card stating a permit holder is
recertified. The permit holder will receive a letter stating that their
permit has been recertified. There will be no requirement that a permit
holder carry proof of recertification.

9) The responsibility of the permit holder will be fulfilled when the
recertification form is submitted to the State Police.

10) If the form is submitted electronically the permit holder will receive a
receipt that can be printed out. If submitted by mail it was recommended
that the application be sent by certified mail so that there will be proof
of mailing.

11) Regardless of being filed electronically or by paper, a permit holder
can check the status of their recertification on the state police web site.

12) At the end of the recertification period, the State Police will send to
the licensing officer a list of people who submitted an application to
recertify. The exact process of review and revocation has not been
determined and remains murky.

13) If someone has a suspended pistol permit they will not be allowed to
recertify by the state police. Consequently at the recertification period
this suspension will convert to a permanent revocation. This is a gross
injustice that will hopefully be challenged in court.

14) Permit holders who have had their permits suspended because of a 946
mental health letter will not be allowed to recertify their permits and will
also have their permits revoked for failure to recertify.

15) In order to recertify the permit holder will need to have a nys dmv id
number.

This requirement is completely without justification in statute but will
stand until challenged in court.

16) If the permit holder resides outside of New York State they will still
need to obtain a NYS non driver ID.

17) If you have a NICS check by a dealer you still need to recertify with
the State Police.

18) If you have a Brady check by the County Clerk’s Office you still need to
recertify with the State Police.

19) If you have a Brady check card from Judge Kehoe you still need to
recertify with the State Police.

20) A pistol permit revocation can result in the loss of all fire arms
including pistols, rifles and shotguns.

21) All weapons that are co-registered on an individual’s pistol permit must
be included on the recertification application.

Below is the section of the safe act that refers to recertification:

Penal Law 400.10 (B)

(b) All licensees shall be recertified to the division of state police every
five years thereafter. Any license issued before the effective date of the
chapter of the laws of two thousand thirteen which added this paragraph
shall be recertified by the licensee on or before January thirty-first, two
thousand eighteen, and not less than one year prior to such date, the state
police shall send a notice to all license holders who have not recertified
by such time. Such recertification shall be in a form as approved by the
superintendent of state police, which shall request the license holder's
name, date of birth, gender, race, residential address, social security
number, firearms possessed by such license holder, email address at the
option of the license holder and an affirmation that such license holder is
not prohibited from possessing firearms. The form may be in an electronic
form if so designated by the superintendent of state police. Failure to
recertify shall act as a revocation of such license. If the New York state
police discover as a result of the recertification process that a licensee
failed to provide a change of address, the New York state police shall not
require the licensing officer to revoke such license.

QUESTIONS:

Mike Jankowski, Wayne County Clerk mjankowski@co.wayne.ny.us (315) 946-7470

New York State Police Web Site: http://www.troopers.ny.gov/ (1-855-529-4867)

 

[wizrd]

Some of you think that sending communications to a state government office that are registered, return receipt requested, etc. etc. - means they will take care of your concerns in a timely and proper manner, - BULLSHIT! - I am still waiting for a reply from the NY Attorney General's office from a complaint several years ago, - two registered letters sent - problem was me getting screwed out of a $ 15,000.00 raffle prize. Note: Local police, Sheriff's Depts., State Police do not, and will not - get invloved with laws involving raffles, - they told me this on personal visits to all of these agencies. NY State Attorney Generals office handles these things - but they just don't give a shit.....just saying. ( I wonder, how many recertifications will be LOST in the process?)

 

[soylentBlue]

I can picture some data entry drone getting fed up with all the boxes of peanuts, bad handwriting, forms printed out comically large, filled out in crayon, glitter bombs, ect... and just tossing the lot in the shredder. Certified mail? Sure, but does that mean it contained your recertification? They could claim you sent in a high-resolution, well-lit photograph of your butthole.

 

[kev74]

Sure, but does that mean it contained your recertification? They could claim you sent in a high-resolution, well-lit photograph of your butthole.

Glitter, peanuts, crayon, butt hole pic. Check!

Just a thought, I don't remember seeing anything in the safe act that this had to be filled out in English. Anyone know Klingon?

 

[masterswimmer]

Bottom line, THEY gave us the deadline date. We did not make up the date. Filing the recert by that date is complying.

No different than the beloved date we patiently wait for every spring, April 15th.

Peace out......

 

[MilesTeg]

Some of you think that sending communications to a state government office that are registered, return receipt requested, etc. etc. - means they will take care of your concerns in a timely and proper manner, - BULLSHIT! - I am still waiting for a reply from the NY Attorney General's office from a complaint several years ago, - two registered letters sent - problem was me getting screwed out of a $ 15,000.00 raffle prize. Note: Local police, Sheriff's Depts., State Police do not, and will not - get invloved with laws involving raffles, - they told me this on personal visits to all of these agencies. NY State Attorney Generals office handles these things - but they just don't give a shit.....just saying. ( I wonder, how many recertifications will be LOST in the process?)

Your still missing the point, I don't care if they get it done in time. It's not my issue I have complied with the law. Done deal, I'm not worried about what if's.

 

[Dr. Evil]

DrEvil, the master of the snide remark!

Flattery will get you no where.

 

[Cooolone]

What a bunch of bullshit and just wow!

No need to wonder why this State is so fucked, just reading some of the garbage above.

Firearms and the "Rights" to bear then are not to be compared with driving licenses/vehicle registrations, a privilege, sorry! And the supposed threat that failure to rectify can cause loss of all firearms including rifles and shotguns, just fucking hysterical...

And no, I don't need to have my new license in hand before the supposed expiration, which coincidentally licenses I've seen don't even have. Fact is "All" your required to do, is send in the form, period, by the date prescribed. Doesn't matter how long it takes for them to process it because your license is still valid until "revoked" by the issuing authority! The State Police don't not have the power to revoke your "Right" to anything, they would only forward your renewal application to the issuing authority for revocation based upon that ability allowed for in the Safe Act and it better be correct.

@MilesTeg nailed it... But I say, not "some" but a lot of people live in fear!

So many worrying about nothing but bullshit.

 

[nycarry]

 

[Deplorable Me]

When I update my drivers license it's not associated with any cars that I drive. I also don't need a drivers license to register a car. I do know that every time I update my license or vehicle registration it costs me money. Just wait, NY will screw us. Pissing our rights away since 1776.

 

[fartgamer]

Lot’s of talk, bottom line, you will submit. That’s just fact.

 

[ManrisFrack]

What a bunch of bullshit and just wow!

No need to wonder why this State is so fucked, just reading some of the garbage above.

Firearms and the "Rights" to bear then are not to be compared with driving licenses/vehicle registrations, a privilege, sorry! And the supposed threat that failure to rectify can cause loss of all firearms including rifles and shotguns, just fucking hysterical...

And no, I don't need to have my new license in hand before the supposed expiration, which coincidentally licenses I've seen don't even have. Fact is "All" your required to do, is send in the form, period, by the date prescribed. Doesn't matter how long it takes for them to process it because your license is still valid until "revoked" by the issuing authority! The State Police don't not have the power to revoke your "Right" to anything, they would only forward your renewal application to the issuing authority for revocation based upon that ability allowed for in the Safe Act and it better be correct.

@MilesTeg nailed it... But I say, not "some" but a lot of people live in fear!

So many worrying about nothing but bullshit.

Agreed, this section of the law violates the 2nd Amendment.

However, NYS Penal Law 400.11 (c) DOES call for surrender or seizure of ALL firearms, rifles and shotguns when a license is revoked under Penal Law 400.11 (a) and (b).

Also, there is a statutory revocation triggered by failure to recertify in PL 400.10 (b). You might be able to fight confiscation on a specific technicality but they could nullify that by having a court (any court) revoke your permit prior to confiscation. Yes, the law DOES say that "...a license issued pursuant to section 400.01 of this article may be revoked and cancelled at any time by the licensing officer or any judge or justice of a court of record." That's in 400.11 (a). The issuing authority isn't the only one who can revoke a permit.

Not recertifying will make you vulnerable to losing your guns. If the state persecutes you under these sections of their law, your only sliver of hope for relief is SCOTUS. This is exactly how allowing minor, relatively benign infractions of our rights can build up over time and amount to serious violations of our basic rights.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Lot’s of talk, bottom line, you will submit. That’s just fact.

Yup. Every last one of them will.

 

[wizrd]

Maybe I'll just send an empty envelope - unsealed - with no return address -- to them. -- I wonder if they would spend any time looking arond the office for the 're-certification' papers that 'fell out' ?

 

[Mr. terzmo]

Did mine yesterday Saw all the posts about last minute and paper forms. All I can say is the @$$hole in Albany has all the juice and if "something" happens to an application, it falls back in that particular persons lap. If it does get claimed "not arrived" no file on hand, that person, I assume will spend a lot of time/money to retrieve their permit. Many here can say a lot of things they would do after the fact but the real fact is if they "claim" no application, that person is screwed. I see no resolution in the next 50 days or so. I reluctantly applied because My permit means a lot to Me and I'm not even thinking of putting that in jeopardy.

I hope all the plans/late filer's work out well.

 

[redtail]

FUAC. That is all , & It's the Tapanzee bridge you asshole !!!!!

 

[Marine Cpl]

I also don't remember reading that it has to be postmarked by the last day. It has to reach them by the last day unless I'm mistaken.

 

[Acer-m14]

I don't have to .. FUAC .. LOL .. who like my hammer

 

[masterswimmer]

I also don't remember reading that it has to be postmarked by the last day. It has to reach them by the last day unless I'm mistaken.

From the NYSP website on recert:

"If your permit was issued before January 15, 2013, the deadline to submit your recertification is January 31, 2018. If your permit was issued on or after January 15, 2013, the deadline to recertify is five years after the date the permit was issued. As a permit holder, it is your responsibility to recertify your permit whether you receive a notification letter or not. "

It says the deadline to SUBMIT, not that they received, is January 31st 2018

There always needs to be a line in the sand for these things. Just like a vehicle registration has a deadline, your drivers license has a deadline, filing taxes has a deadline. The .gov has the full intention of processing the paperwork after receiving all the recerts. They tell us when they want us to submit. They take whatever time it takes to enter the data. Process is complete for us when we mail in the forms.

I'm baffled at how many people are running scared of this.

YOU ARE COMPLYING WHEN YOU MAIL IN YOUR FORMS BY JANUARY 31ST 2018. THEY'VE TOLD US THAT MANY TIMES.

 

[Marine Cpl]

From the NYSP website on recert:

"If your permit was issued before January 15, 2013, the deadline to submit your recertification is January 31, 2018. If your permit was issued on or after January 15, 2013, the deadline to recertify is five years after the date the permit was issued. As a permit holder, it is your responsibility to recertify your permit whether you receive a notification letter or not. "

It says the deadline to SUBMIT, not that they received, is January 31st 2018

There always needs to be a line in the sand for these things. Just like a vehicle registration has a deadline, your drivers license has a deadline, filing taxes has a deadline. The .gov has the full intention of processing the paperwork after receiving all the recerts. They tell us when they want us to submit. They take whatever time it takes to enter the data. Process is complete for us when we mail in the forms.

I'm baffled at how many people are running scared of this.

YOU ARE COMPLYING WHEN YOU MAIL IN YOUR FORMS BY JANUARY 31ST 2018. THEY'VE TOLD US THAT MANY TIMES.

If your mortgage has to be submitted by the 1st to not incur late charges does it have to be in their hands by the 1st or the post office's hands by the 1st?

 

[masterswimmer]

If your mortgage has to be submitted by the 1st to not incur late charges does it have to be in their hands by the 1st or the post office's hands by the 1st?

False positive. Unrelated. Your mortgage doesn't 'expire'. Besides, even with your mortgage it'll be due on the 1st with a grace period typically until the 15th or 16th before incurring late charges.