What penal law gives security guards, peace officers and soldiers the right to open carry?
WHY you SHOULD open carry
- Thread starter Acer-m14
- Start date
What penal law gives security guards, peace officers and soldiers the right to open carry?
Exemptions
Penal code 265.20
(a) Persons in the military service of the state of New York when duly
authorized by regulations issued by the adjutant general to possess the
same.
(b) Police officers as defined in subdivision thirty-four of section
1.20 of the criminal procedure law.
(c) Peace officers as defined by section 2.10 of the criminal
procedure law.
(d) Persons in the military or other service of the United States, in
pursuit of official duty or when duly authorized by federal law,
regulation or order to possess the same.
So if Penal Code 265.20 states who gets an exemption to the law then...........
3. Possession of a pistol or revolver by a person to whom a license
therefor has been issued as provided under section 400.00 or 400.01 of
this chapter or possession of a weapon as defined in paragraph (e) or
(f) of subdivision twenty-two of section 265.00 of this article which is
registered pursuant to paragraph (a) of subdivision sixteen-a of section
400.00 of this chapter or is included on an amended license issued
pursuant to section 400.00 of this chapter. In the event such license is
revoked, other than because such licensee is no longer permitted to
possess a firearm, rifle or shotgun under federal or state law,
information sufficient to satisfy the requirements of subdivision
sixteen-a of section 400.00 of this chapter, shall be transmitted by the
licensing officer to the state police, in a form as determined by the
superintendent of state police. Such transmission shall constitute a
valid registration under such section. Further provided, notwithstanding
any other section of this title, a failure to register such weapon by an
individual who possesses such weapon before the enactment of the chapter
of the laws of two thousand thirteen which amended this paragraph and
may so lawfully possess it thereafter upon registration, shall only be
subject to punishment pursuant to paragraph (c) of subdivision sixteen-a
of section 400.00 of this chapter; provided, that such a license or
registration shall not preclude a conviction for the offense defined in
subdivision three of section 265.01 of this article or section 265.01-a
of this article.
Penal Code 400 sub-section 2
(f) have and carry concealed, without regard to employment or
place of possession, by any person when proper cause exists for the
issuance thereof;
Yes, that is the permit that allows you to possess a handgun and carry it concealed while in a public place.
No where does it state Carry Concealed while in public.
So if Police, Security Guards and Military can open carry per Penal Code 265.20 then so can people with a NYS Pistol License.
Says which law? Just cuz you say it, doesn't make it an actual law.
As I said there is no exemption to NY 265.01 that allows the general public to possess and openly carry a handgun in public areas. You have yet to cite any actual law allowing such a thing.
If you truly believe this, are you man enough to carry your handgun openly in Albany, Buffalo, or another big metro area in the state? In front of a police station?
Follow the logic...
If 265.20 give police, military, security exemption to open carry and that is where our exemption comes from, we get the same exemption.
Ok so go to Buffalo or Albany or Binghamton or Syracuse and wear your handgun strapped to your side in plain view of lots of people, especially cops. See how that goes.
Ok so go to Buffalo or Albany or Binghamton or Syracuse and wear your handgun strapped to your side in plain view of lots of people, especially cops. See how that goes.
This is about law, not NYS thugs and the corrupt justice system.
I showed you the law in detail. You seem to misunderstand it, for whatever reason.
Not my problem. Good luck!
I showed you where your thinking could be flawed. Not my problem. Good luck!
Acer-m14
.950 JDJ
i don't see the word "OPEN" in all of that .. for a special class of people to open carry
So I guess you now agree there is no Open Carry in NY.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
275.01 makes possession illegal. Only possession.
There is no leed for a license to open carry, because it isn't illegal. The only reason *everyone* can't open carry is that you have to possess a firearm to carry it and the possession is what's illegal.
A license under PL400 exempts you from being prosecuted for possession. There are no further laws you need an exemption *from* to open carry.
Acer-m14
.950 JDJ
rule of lenity
The rule of lenity is a principle used in criminal law, also called rule of strict construction, stating that when a law is unclear or ambiguous, the court should apply it in the way that is most favorable to the defendant, or to construe the statute against the state. The rule of lenity stems from two constitutional objectives: first, the separation of powers, as it limits the scope of statutory language in penal statutes and does not allow the courts to establish the contours of a crime and its punishment. Second, the rule of lenity stems from the wish to “protect the legislature’s constitutional lawmaking prerogative, and to limit the courts’ encroachment on a legislative function”.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Yes, the permit allows you to possess a handgun. We agree on that.
But possession is the *only* thing *anyone* would be prosecuted for if they were open carrying. So, once you have the exemption for possession, you can OC.
*There simply is no charge in NYS law* to charge someone with who is open carrying *except* for possession.
So, what section would your permit holding open carrier be charged under ? PL265 for possession ? But they have a PL400 exemption for being charged for possession, so that can't be it.
Think of it like this. A 13year old can't legally drive a car on the road in NY. Everyone agrees about this.
Now, what would they be charged with if they were caught ? They would be charged with driving without a license.
But, if Alabama started issuing licenses to 13yr olds, and someone showed up driving with one, then they would be perfectly legal.
It's like that. OC is only illegal because possession is illegal. But as soon as possession isn't illegal, then neither is OC.
Is it legal to have a handgun in your trunk ? That's not CC. Well, if you have a permit, then it's perfectly legal. If you don't then it isn't.
But, let's take this farther. You can OC without having a handgun. What about OC of a rifle or shotgun ? What are you charged with if you sling your Henry big boy and walk around town with that ? Certainly nothing under PL265.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Try the same with a long gun. Obviously there are no licensing issues there.Ok so go to Buffalo or Albany or Binghamton or Syracuse and wear your handgun strapped to your side in plain view of lots of people, especially cops. See how that goes.
Hint, you *won't* be charged for possession.
You likely *will* be arrested under some trumped up generic charge of disturbing the peace or something equally disturbing.
Acer-m14
.950 JDJ
wish i had a bike ...
Long guns are legal to open carry.
This has always been a discussion about the written law not what cops and corrupt judges would do.
I did not misunderstand him. What I said in the discussion is what he said. He had published a book on the laws and verbally confirmed what he said in the book. Unfortunately it was several years ago, and I do not remember his name or the name of the book. He was also a retired state trooper before he went to law school. I did not take on this thread to cause problems or to create dissension. Just trying to keep folks out of trouble.
I didn't take it that way. Most of us see threads like this as thought exercise. It's part of the reason this website exists.
No hard feelings here mate.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Civil discussion is always welcome, if we all agreed about everything this would be a very boring site.
I have heard several people make arguments similar to yours. What I have never seen is any of them cite a case where someone was actually prosecuted in the way you suggest will happen.
I do agree that open carry is probably not a good idea in NY legally speaking, but that is not because it is directly illegal. That is because it is likely to draw attention you do not want.
We have all seen examples where people get dragged through the system for perfectly legal activity, and being vindicated at the end of it is small consolation.
But, the fact remains, there is no real legal difference in NY between open carry of a long gun or a pistol by a person who has a permit to legally possess the pistol.
It doesn't really matter *who* you talked to, if they don't have actual evidence (like convictions). An "Argument From Authority" is considered a logical fallacy for a reason.
I can't find the law establishing the pistol license. But I did find this on the net as I searched several articles on the subject. None of them supported your contention that open carry is legal.
New York Gun Permit: Laws, Cost, Restrictions, & FAQs – GLS Tactical (gunlawsuits.org)
State permit to purchase long guns: New York does not issue a state permit to buy long guns.
State permits to purchase handguns: New York issues a state permit to purchase handguns.
** State permit to open carry: New York is a non-permissive state that prohibits the open carry of firearms.
State permits to conceal carry long guns: New York does not issue a state permit to conceal handguns.
State permits to conceal carry handguns: New York issues a pistol permit to conceal carry handguns in the state.
There is no exemption in New York state law that allows the general public with a handgun permit to carry the handgun openly in public. I have posted all relevant laws in previous posts.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
There is no provision in NY law that prohibits open carry of handguns or long guns.
The only general prohibition is on possession of handguns.
Things are legal unless specifically prohibited. That's how the law works.
You won't find a law that says you can conceal carry while wearing a red hat either. That doesn't mean it's prohibited.
I agree. This comes up every couple of years, but there is no convincing some people.
Okay so it sounds like you don't understand how gun laws work in New York. Law 265.10 makes possession of all firearms illegal. There are then many exemptions including for police, army, national guard, and people who possess a handgun license. There is no license that allows the general public to open
carry a handgun in public.
Acer-m14
.950 JDJ
Last year i tried to CCW my G19 replica bb gun for a day but the tee shirt was to short and nothing happened LOL
Acer-m14
.950 JDJ
looks at the 2A .. i see no license needed