Why you should use 55gr...

[Podmonkey]

Well that's extreme grain with those examples. Much larger bullet. The 55 grain vs 62 grain is the same diameter. Both will go clean through a person in most cases. With something like a bison you need the extra grain for penetration. Not so on a human with 5.56. The greater the velocity, the greater the stretch cavity.

The video above proved it.

See additional edited info in that post.

 

[Marine Cpl]

The idea behind the Recce carbine is to have something can be effective under a wide variety of circumstances. Up close against soft targets it's very effective, at extended range it's still effective. I don't consider the Recce carbine to be my go to SD rifle. It's my Paul Revere has ridden down the street rifle. Or my SHTF rifle.
Might need to engage at further range in such instances. I in the Paul Revere case, ambush from range would be my preferred engagement.

I could see you now riding around in a truck yelling "The Liberals are coming the Liberals are coming!"

Pod, you'd be cut down in no time shooting from a distance with helicopters and thermal imaging. It ain't happening.

 

[Marine Cpl]

The idea behind the Recce carbine is to have something can be effective under a wide variety of circumstances. Up close against soft targets it's very effective, at extended range it's still effective. I don't consider the Recce carbine to be my go to SD rifle. It's my Paul Revere has ridden down the street rifle. Or my SHTF rifle.
Might need to engage at further range in such instances. In the Paul Revere case, ambush from range would be my preferred engagement.

That is true with the lighter grain .308. You just proved the point that I was trying to make.

 

[Podmonkey]

I could see you now riding around in a truck yelling "The Liberals are coming the Liberals are coming!"

Pod, you'd be cut down in no time shooting from a distance with helicopters and thermal imaging. It ain't happening.

The military will stay out of it. Remember the Arab spring? In Egypt? The Egyptian military stayed out of it.
Even if not, the military would splinter, fight against itself.

I'm too old and fat and broken to be on the front lines. I would want to act as a partizan, in and out.

 

[Marine Cpl]

The military will stay out of it. Remember the Arab spring? In Egypt? The Egyptian military stayed out of it.
Even if not, the military would splinter, fight against itself.

I'm too old and fat and broken to be on the front lines. I would want to act as a partizan, in and out.

Apples and oranges. You can't compare Egyptians with Americans. They don't have the same values. They don't have antifa and cocksucking liberals and millennials.

Remember. The cops are the military now. They have the same gear. And the government will reward your neighbor with food to turn you in after the Super markets go empty.

 

[Podmonkey]

That is true with the lighter grain .308. You just proved the point that I was trying to make.

You said the 5.56x45 did more damage than the 7.62x51. That's not true. I used the M80A1 ball as an example because it is the exact same construction as the M855A1. Both behave in the same way on target, just the M80A1 does more so. M80A1 is hard to find and expensive BTW.
But form the tests I have seen the Gold Dot or Federal Fusion soft points get much the same results. And frankly regular M80 ball is effective enough.

 

[Podmonkey]

Apples and oranges. You can't compare Egyptians with Americans. They don't have the same values. They don't have antifa and cocksucking liberals and millennials.

Remember. The cops are the military now. They have the same gear. And the government will reward your neighbor with food to turn you in after the Super markets go empty.

You do your thing, I'll do mine. No one lives forever anyway.

 

[Marine Cpl]

You said the 5.56x45 did more damage than the 7.62x51. That's not true. I used the M80A1 ball as an example because it is the exact same construction as the M855A1. Both behave in the same way on target, just the M80A1 does more so. M80A1 is hard to find and expensive BTW.
But form the tests I have seen the Gold Dot or Federal Fusion soft points get much the same results. And frankly regular M80 ball is effective enough.

Ball is always effective enough.

 

[Podmonkey]

Ball is always effective enough.

My point is that the extra horsepower of 7.62x51 allows M80 ball to be "good enough" under a wider set of circumstances than M193. M80 ball is okay though barriers, M193 sucks through barriers. M80 ball remains effective at long range, M193 not so much.

 

[Acer-m14]

so per the vid the 556 fmj 55g ball its a great for deer ...











if you hit it in the ASS

 

[Podmonkey]

so per the vid the 556 fmj 55g ball its a great for deer ...











if you hit it in the ASS

.......um....ouch.

 

[Marine Cpl]

My point is that the extra horsepower of 7.62x51 allows M80 ball to be "good enough" under a wider set of circumstances than M193. M80 ball is okay though barriers, M193 sucks through barriers. M80 ball remains effective at long range, M193 not so much.

I'm not talking about barriers. I'm talking about flesh. High velocity destroys more flesh. A .224 diameter 55 gr bullet going through soft flesh on a human at 10 ft at 3300 fps will destroy more tissue than a .224 diameter 62 gr bullet going at 2800 fps.

How it equates to a .308, I couldn't tell you but from what I've seen in gel, the hole from a .223 is much larger then a hole from a 7.62x 39 which is only going about 300 feet per second slower then a .308.

 

[Podmonkey]

I'm not talking about barriers. I'm talking about flesh. High velocity destroys more flesh. A .224 diameter 55 gr bullet going through soft flesh on a human at 10 ft at 3300 fps will destroy more tissue than a .224 diameter 62 gr bullet going at 2800 fps.

How it equates to a .308, I couldn't tell you but from what I've seen in gel, the hole from a .223 is much larger then a hole from a 7.62x 39 which is only going about 300 feet per second slower then a .308.

Are you using a 20" barrel though? Even then M193 mv is 3200fps. Out of a 16" barrel it's what, 2700fps? Heavier bullets within a caliber are usually more efficient out of shorter barrels, they hold onto what velocity they have longer.
It's not always the case of course. There is no gain saying however that in 5.56 the heavy projectiles do best.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Are you using a 20" barrel though? Even then M193 mv is 3200fps. Out of a 16" barrel it's what, 2700fps? Heavier bullets within a caliber are usually more efficient out of shorter barrels, they hold onto what velocity the have longer.
It's not always the case of course. There is no gain saying however that in 5.56 the heavy projectiles do best.

Yes. 20 inch but ratio is the same based on the barrel size you use at self-defense distances.

At long distances than yes the heavier grain is better.

 

[Podmonkey]

Man, @Willjr75's debates always keep me up past my bedtime! I gotta be out of bed at 0600!
Nighty night!

 

[Jem45472]

I think for what we as regular Joe's will be shooting at at normal ranges, the 55 grain is superior. The 50 grain TSX hollow point is even better.

I think I asked your thoughts about the 50 grain a while back for my pistol build, and you said go with heavier.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I think I asked your thoughts about the 50 grain a while back for my pistol build, and you said go with heavier.

I don't remember the conversation but I probably said yes due to the short barrel of the pistol. Heavy is always better with a short barrel. As @meketrefe says, " When you have a short barrel, send them grain."

 

[Jem45472]

I don't remember the conversation but I probably said yes due to the short barrel of the pistol. Heavy is always better with a short barrel. As @meketrefe says, " When you have a short barrel, send them grain."

I thought this was impressive out of a short barrel.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I thought this was impressive out of a short barrel.

Yes. I remember that thread now. My issue with that round was the low penetration. The 70 gr Gold Dot did about 20 inches of penetration if I remember correctly.

 

[Marine Cpl]

This Nato 55 gr fragments out of a 16 inch barrel and pieces of bullet still exist the block.

 

[Jem45472]

As @meketrefe says, " When you have a short barrel, send them grain."

Lol, for home I have 110 great Barnes in the blackout pistol, I won't tell @meketrefe though as I know his thoughts on the blackout.

 

[Uzi]

Lol, for home I have 110 great Barnes in the blackout pistol, I won't tell @meketrefe though as I know his thoughts on the blackout.