Within 150 Yards

[Marine Cpl]

Within 150 yards or less only (probably less) with a 16 inch barrel only (I cannot legally go shorter), which caliber provides more stopping power for defensive use on soft tissue and through an occasional hard barrier like a car door.

.223 62, 75, or 77gr HP's, 7.62x39 110 HP or 123 gr HP, or .308 110 gr or higher in HP?

This would be for one general purpose rifle for a simple guy like me for defense rather than offense. I'm not going to be taking any shots over 200 yards on paper or deer. This is simply a defensive rifle that'll be used to protect my family.

That's less than 150 yards with a 16 inch barrel only.

@meketrefe @Podmonkey

 

[Airborneguy]

With no other qualifiers, why wouldn’t .308 (the most powerful of those you posted) be the obvious answer?

 

[ECU Pirates]

.308 but 16 is not the optimal length as you know.

 

[freddy]

I prefer the GMX Heavy Barrier TAP. Hornadyle.com - 308 WIN TAP®

Turns cover into concealment. Outstanding penetration even after going through glass or steel.

16" DPMS......... Muzzle.......100 Yards......200 Yards
Velocity (fps).......2478.......... 2289..................2109
Energy (ft lbs).... 2250...........1920................. 1629

 

[Exonautic]

.308 is definitely not optimal in a 16", not to mention muzzle blast and recoil, follow up shots will be hard to do accurately and if you do have to use it defensively something tells me you wont be using ear pro, i.e you may live but you'll probably never hear again. If you want follow up shots, and to continue hearing, plus shorten up the gun some, My suggestion would be either a 5.56 or .300 blk, 14.5 in barrel with one of those blast diverters (NY legal) in the front to direct all of the concussion forward. Pinned of course to stay out of the atf's guise. 77 gr in the 5.56 with a good defensive load. Or you could even run 220 gr subs in a .300 and you wont have to worry about any supersonic crack. and i also believe hornady released some new defensive .223 rounds recently, not %100 but think i saw it going through instagram.

 

[Marine Cpl]

With no other qualifiers, why wouldn’t .308 (the most powerful of those you posted) be the obvious answer?

I looked up the velocity at under 200 yards with a 16 inch barrel and it is about the same as a 7.62x39 in 123 gr. That's why I'm stumped regarding those 2 calibers.

 

[Marine Cpl]

.308 is definitely not optimal in a 16", not to mention muzzle blast and recoil, follow up shots will be hard to do accurately and if you do have to use it defensively something tells me you wont be using ear pro, i.e you may live but you'll probably never hear again. If you want follow up shots, and to continue hearing, plus shorten up the gun some, My suggestion would be either a 5.56 or .300 blk, 14.5 in barrel with one of those blast diverters (NY legal) in the front to direct all of the concussion forward. Pinned of course to stay out of the atf's guise. 77 gr in the 5.56 with a good defensive load. Or you could even run 220 gr subs in a .300 and you wont have to worry about any supersonic crack. and i also believe hornady released some new defensive .223 rounds recently, not %100 but think i saw it going through instagram.

The hearing is definitely a consideration I didn't think of at the time I posted. Thanks.

 

[nortatoga]

I know you didn't mention it but 6.8 SPC?

 

[Exonautic]

I know you didn't mention it but 6.8 SPC?

Personal opinion i guess, but you dont seem to gain much over a 5.56 or .300 considering the increased ppr, I'd rather know my gun inside and out than grab a few extra ft-llbs at the cost of decreased training.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I only listed those 3 calibers because they are widely available and cheap to buy.

 

[Doc8404]

5.56
Proven round.

 

[dsdmmat]

5.7x28mm

 

[Exonautic]

5.7x28mm

Unless he lives outside of new york or has special le privilege, the only thing acceptable to run that round out of is not allowed here.
P90 or bust for 5.7!!!

 

[FrankenCub]

With those distances I'd go a different route but if you want cheap and available everywhere why change. The 223 has been plenty proven. If I wanted to penetrate barriers if need be I'd pick more of a hammer than the listed choices. With the plus of great deer and bear hunting as well.

 

[Exonautic]

With those distances I'd go a different route but if you want cheap and available everywhere why change. The 223 has been plenty proven. If I wanted to penetrate barriers if need be I'd pick more of a hammer than the listed choices. With the plus of great deer and bear hunting as well.

223 is proven, available and it has no problems punching through a car door. I doubt anyone is going to be coming at him with the presidential tank. And if they do, may god have mercy on his soul cause i doubt they came alone.

 

[DoD1776]

I only listed those 3 calibers because they are widely available and cheap to buy.

308 is cheap?

 

[FrankenCub]

223 is proven, available and it has no problems punching through a car door. I doubt anyone is going to be coming at him with the presidential tank. And if they do, may god have mercy on his soul cause i doubt they came alone.

My point being everyone and their brother's sisterwife has a 223, and yes, they are proven. I wouldn't be concerned with someone hiding behind a car door, that only works in Hollywood. A handgun will punch through a door. If they're tucking behind concrete block, which is everywhere, I like something with a little more horse power.

 

[Marine Cpl]

My point being everyone and their brother's sisterwife has a 223, and yes, they are proven. I wouldn't be concerned with someone hiding behind a car door, that only works in Hollywood. A handgun will punch through a door. If they're tucking behind concrete block, which is everywhere, I like something with a little more horse power.

So what about x39 round for concrete?

 

[Exonautic]

So what about x39 round for concrete?

Could always use the 855 round. Its not much better but a bit. Problem is typically the better rounds at punching through barriers will also over penetrate on bodies.

 

[UltraT]

.308 obviously gives the best terminal and barrier performance, but I've heard it's pretty bad for sound and shockwave at 16".

7.62x39 is known to be a good round for defeating barriers and should be very effective with modern bullets, but compared to modern, heavier grain 5.56 I'm not sure which is better.

 

[FrankenCub]

So what about x39 round for concrete?

Yeah, they'll handle concrete better than 223 but if you hit the web of those blocks it'll deflect or stop. I had an AK that I loved to shoot and it shot well, it was one of the milled receivers. Had a pile of pre ban mags and drums to go with it. Some good solid bullets would be helpful too.
I also have an itch to build something of a war hammer just for specific duties of powering through hard objects if the need arose. Not that I'd ever need it, but better to have it and not need it. I want to build a 50 Beowulf or 458 SOCOM, SOCOM would be easier to buy ammo.

 

[freddy]

Could always use the 855 round. Its not much better but a bit. Problem is typically the better rounds at punching through barriers will also over penetrate on bodies.

You're talking to Will. Overpenetration is not an issue. Which I understand.

 

[Exonautic]

You're talking to Will. Overpenetration is not an issue.

My bad, havent updated my psychological profiles on everyone recently.

 

[UltraT]

M855 can pinhole through bodies with certain entrance angles. No bueno.

 

[meketrefe]

308 is a bit of a waste in 16" but if you choose your ammo correctly
the 308 makes as much power as the two other combined.

See if you can find 155gr british surplus...

Otherwise winchester 147gr will give 200fps more than federal.
Other nato ammo might work better than lake city for that size. DAG possibly.
If you roll your own you can put a 175gr bullet to 2500fps or a 120gr to 3000fps with faster powders.
308 Winchester 125gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip 20rds.
If you don't mind spending a bit more then the 130gr TTSX from barnes comes out close to 3000fps from a 16" barrel.
Also see if you can locate the new M80A1. A friend has managed to get bullets but not the loads.
Those are also optimized like the Radway and they are 130gr arrohead like the 62gr M855A1.

 

[freddy]

308 copper alloy GMX TAP with 29" penetration through bare gelatin. 99% weight retention.

Bring on the 400lb dude.
...behind a car.
...high on meth.
...wearing a vest.

 

[freddy]

22" penetration after steel. 97% weight retention.

 

[freddy]

22" penetration after auto glass. 90% weight retention.

It will even penetrate 1" of laminated glass.

 

[ManrisFrack]

HPBT 308 looks like about $0.60/round.

HPBT 6.8 from PPU is $0.65/round. Coupla clicks and the big brown truck stops at your door a few days later. Dunno how everyone thinks 6.8 is hard to get.

Both have more energy than HPBT, 70gr+ 5.56 and they'll all run within 100fps or so of each other from a 16". Do you want to run a heavier, harder recoiling, more expensive rifle to save 5 cents a round? If the XM68GD didn't vanish like it did, I'll say that would easily be the best choice.

7.62x39 is gonna be 200fps slower - not great for barrier pen, but cheap as hell.

ETA: It's too bad nobody loads the 110 Hot Cor in 308. I'll bet you could get that to 2900 out of a 16" and it's cheap.

 

[joemb]

Unless he lives outside of new york or has special le privilege, the only thing acceptable to run that round out of is not allowed here.
P90 or bust for 5.7!!!

How about that AR57 upper?
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