Multiple injuries reported after Michigan high school shooting; suspect in custody

[GOPerfect]

*If* the parents knew or should have known (and that's a big if), then they are accessories.


*but*, kids write and draw stuff all the time. That doesn't mean you expect it to happen. When I was in elementary school, we used to draw space battles and all sorts of stuff. I had a student teacher who had apparently just got done with that class and got it into her head that we thought that stuff was real, and we got very seriously questioned about it.

Well, duh, we know the difference between Battlestar Galactica and reality, but we're kids, and it's fun to pretend.

How many kids draw stuff like this but never have a problem ?

Maybe the schools should figure out why all of a sudden kids no longer have an outlet until they get to the point where they explode.

If you want to compare your spaceship drawings to his, by all means, do that. I will not.

Were these graphic illustrations of blood and guts of people around you? Did you also post on social media the evil things that you wanted to do to others? Were you on a rather large amount of anti psych meds?

Again, you may compare your childhood drawings to this 15 year old's drawing, I will not.

 

[spat]

If you want to compare your spaceship drawings to his, by all means, do that. I will not.

Were these graphic illustrations of blood and guts of people around you? Did you also post on social media the evil things that you wanted to do to others? Were you on a rather large amount of anti psych meds?

Again, you may compare your childhood drawings to this 15 year old's drawing, I will not.

I'm just saying, I don't trust the people who outlaw gun shaped pop tarts to make that call.

And I don't trust the media or the government to report it accurately.

So, unless someone has the drawings available for review, I'll assume they weren't remarkable.

 

[GOPerfect]

Crumbley Made Threats on Social Media & in a Journal Indicating He Planned the Shooting​

 

[GOPerfect]

I'm just saying, I don't trust the people who outlaw gun shaped pop tarts to make that call.

And I don't trust the media or the government to report it accurately.

So, unless someone has the drawings available for review, I'll assume they weren't remarkable.

They will be released during trial. They will not release them ahead of time. I have no trust either, I am making these statements with what has been put forth thus far.

 

[Modean]

Why would a car or knife be any different than a gun ?

What if the kid built a bomb instead ?

The kid was old enough to be responsible for his own actions (as evident by his being charged as an adult).

Sure, the parents should have known something was wrong. So should the school. They didn't have to send him back to class either.

Should the principal be charged too ?

Based only on what we know at this point, the parents were negligent, the school was negligent. There appears to be plenty of blame to go around on this one, but the fact remains that a 15 year old kid ruined his life and several others, and was allowed to do so by the adults in his life.

 

[Modean]

I'm just saying, I don't trust the people who outlaw gun shaped pop tarts to make that call.

And I don't trust the media or the government to report it accurately.

So, unless someone has the drawings available for review, I'll assume they weren't remarkable.

Lack of faith in the media and government to report accurately is very understandable. Rittenhouse being a very recent example of how they won't stop lying even after an acquittal.

 

[dwa12479]

Why would a car or knife be any different than a gun ?

What if the kid built a bomb instead ?

The kid was old enough to be responsible for his own actions (as evident by his being charged as an adult).

Sure, the parents should have known something was wrong. So should the school. They didn't have to send him back to class either.

Should the principal be charged too ?

If someone I know is drunk and says they want to run through a Christmas parade fullnof people with a car, and I hand him my keys, I would expect to be held held somewhat responsible as an accessory. Similar to when 3 guys rob a convenience store, 1 shoots the clerk but all 3 are charged with murder.

Reading more details it appears on the surface here the parents knew he was a credible threat in the short term, and actually readily provided the tool he used.

 

[SomeSoldier]

Point of order, and I AM nit-picking -

If it is true that the weapon was bought for the kid,
and the parents knew he was fucked up,

...then it is NOT within their liberties to buy that weapon FOR THE KID.
A specific law against buying one for him is irrelevant - you'd be falling into a gun grabber's trap, thinking there needs to be one, which is how we get garbage like SAFE Act and mag limits. EXACTLY how we get that trash. I know damn well that isn't your goal, though, which is why I'm pointing this out.

It was likely that the kid was going to act out everything he'd told them he'd do. They then buy him a pistol, knowing what they knew.

Not everything needs a law, and most things shouldn't need a law.
If the kid hadn't shot everyone, then your idea would stand - no law had been broken, since nothing had happened - it was clearly within their liberties to buy it for him, if nothing had happened.

But then he lit up a bunch of people.
That is not reasonable.
And they KNEW.
Buying a pistol for that kid, if they knew, is not reasonable. And not within their liberties.

No specific law is needed. They are guilty of contributing to the murder and injury.

What they did was legal, right up until the point that they failed to control their disturbed and drugged child with a weapon that they'd bought for him to use, and left under his control with no supervision.

I suck, that I cannot explain it better. But using the SAFE Act and mag limits as an example, murder is already illegal. SAFE Act does nothing but limit people who have no intention of committing a crime, right? Your suggestion that "there's no law against it" kind of begs that there needs to be one to stop people from buying a handgun for psycho teens on mind altering pharma drugs.

It's a gun-grabber trap. Take care with that argument.

And as I said, I'm nit-picking.

No law against means exactly that. Doesn't mean that there should be. The laws you speak of are already there. It's in their minds. It's been there. They would create the law regardless.

What they did was legal until their child did something illegal.

Stop thinking that if we did everything right then they would leave us alone.

Like I said this story is all too convenient.

 

[spat]

If someone I know is drunk and says they want to run through a Christmas parade fullnof people with a car, and I hand him my keys, I would expect to be held held somewhat responsible as an accessory. Similar to when 3 guys rob a convenience store, 1 shoots the clerk but all 3 are charged with murder.

Reading more details it appears on the surface here the parents knew he was a credible threat in the short term, and actually readily provided the tool he used.

What if your drunk friend stole your car keys out of your kitchen drawer while you were sleeping ?

Are you responsible for not securing the keys then ?

 

[GOPerfect]

What if your drunk friend stole your car keys out of your kitchen drawer while you were sleeping ?

Are you responsible for not securing the keys then ?

Nope. But, the kid did not steal the gun. Why do you keep going back to this stolen idea?

 

[SomeSoldier]

Nope. But, the kid did not steal the gun. Why do you keep going back to this stolen idea?

Did you find the article that it was stored in his room?

 

[spat]

Nope. But, the kid did not steal the gun. Why do you keep going back to this stolen idea?

The article I read said it was stored in the parents nightstand.

 

[GOPerfect]

Did you find the article that it was stored in his room?

I didn't look too hard, I slept late. My imaginary night spiders were attacking last night, not much sleep. Out shopping now. If I get a chance, I'll look when I get home.

 

[GOPerfect]

The article I read said it was stored in the parents nightstand.

This may in fact be the case. Still, he did not steal his own gun.

 

[SomeSoldier]

This may in fact be the case. Still, he did not steal his own gun.

He can't legally own the firearm. His parents owned it, bought and paid for. If it was stored in the parents room that shows me that they didn't think their son was responsible enough possess it.

So they kept it. If they kept it in their possession in their room then he would have to take it. I doubt they would allow him to take it to school. So I bet he did it without their knowledge. Took a firearm he legally couldn't own without their permission.

 

[GOPerfect]

He can't legally own the firearm. His parents owned it, bought and paid for. If it was stored in the parents room that shows me that they didn't think their son was responsible enough possess it.

So they kept it. If they kept it in their possession in their room then he would have to take it. I doubt they would allow him to take it to school. So I bet he did it without their knowledge. Took a firearm he legally couldn't own without their permission. It was his gun, they, the parents bought it for him. It was in fact a Christmas gift. They purchased, for him, extra mags and ammo.

It was his gun. His parents bought it as a Christmas gift for him. They bought him extra mags and lots of ammo. Even if the gun was placed in a nightstand in the their room, they still allowed this mentally ill kid access to the gun.

They were aware of his hate and anger. He spoke on Social media a day or two prior to the shooting what he was planning. They still hlgave him access to the firearm.

When the father heard on the news that there was a shooting, he called the Police and told them it was his son doing the shooting.

This was not a case of the parents did not know so should not be accountable, they knew. They assisted in this incident.

 

[GOPerfect]

He can't legally own the firearm. His parents owned it, bought and paid for. If it was stored in the parents room that shows me that they didn't think their son was responsible enough possess it.

So they kept it. If they kept it in their possession in their room then he would have to take it. I doubt they would allow him to take it to school. So I bet he did it without their knowledge. Took a firearm he legally couldn't own without their permission.

Why would you doubt anything in regards to these people being good parents, bad parents or making good decisions?

They showed time after time that they showed no interest in being good parents. Showed many times their horrible attempts at making good decisions.

 

[livingston]

If one is a halfway decent parent one knows their child. ... Many signs over the years present themselves. If one has a troubled child. Did they just plain ignore the signs ?

 

[SomeSoldier]

Why would you doubt anything in regards to these people being good parents, bad parents or making good decisions?

They showed time after time that they showed no interest in being good parents. Showed many times their horrible attempts at making good decisions.

I agree very terrible decision overall. So then we should hold everyone at the FBI accountable for all the deaths of all the shootings because they were forewarned of these incidents and did nothing.

 

[spat]

Why would you doubt anything in regards to these people being good parents, bad parents or making good decisions?

They showed time after time that they showed no interest in being good parents. Showed many times their horrible attempts at making good decisions.

I doubt the parents expected this when they bought it.

If they really thought this was likely and they bought it anyway, then they are guilty as you say.

But that requires them to have known.

You really don't want bad judgement to be criminal.

 

[GOPerfect]

I agree very terrible decision overall. So then we should hold everyone at the FBI accountable for all the deaths of all the shootings because they were forewarned of these incidents and did nothing.

I am speaking only on this case and the charges filed in this case.

 

[GOPerfect]

I doubt the parents expected this when they bought it.

If they really thought this was likely and they bought it anyway, then they are guilty as you say.

But that requires them to have known.

You really don't want bad judgement to be criminal.

From all that I have read, they knew of all of the Social media posts. They knew about the statements made at school. They knew about his demented drawings. They knew that this kid was seriously troubled. They knew all of it and they still purchased him this gun.

 

[GOPerfect]

I have zero issue with kids owning guns. My sons have been shooting since they were 6 years old. My kids may, or may not have been given guns as gifts when they were younger.

None of my children were carriers of serious mental health issues. None of my sons threatened others on Social media with blood and death. Parents have a responsibility to know their children and act accordingly, these two absolutely did not.

 

[SomeSoldier]

I am speaking only on this case and the charges filed in this case.

I am speaking of the implications of this case. Because this is where it will go. Is sig responsible? Is the gun store responsible? Is the ammo manufacturer responsible?

 

[GOPerfect]

I am speaking of the implications of this case. Because this is where it will go. Is sig responsible? Is the gun store responsible? Is the ammo manufacturer responsible?

Nope to all. The Kid, Ethan and his parents are responsible.

 

[spat]

From all that I have read, they knew of all of the Social media posts. They knew about the statements made at school. They knew about his demented drawings. They knew that this kid was seriously troubled. They knew all of it and they still purchased him this gun.

So, how "troubled" is too troubled ?

You *know* if this precedent stands, the next step is "no guns in the house because the kid is a dangerous transphobe, he was overheard telling another kid that men can't get pregnant."

 

[GOPerfect]

So, how "troubled" is too troubled ?

You *know* if this precedent stands, the next step is "no guns in the house because the kid is a dangerous transphobe, he was overheard telling another kid that men can't get pregnant."

Again, this case and this case only. the cues were there for the parents to see, he was on multiple different mental health pills.

I am able to look at one case and decide the merit of charges. If others cannot, that is theirs to deal with.

These school kids would not be dead today if not for the actions and negligence of the parents of Eathan.

 

[SomeSoldier]

Again, this case and this case only. the cues were there for the parents to see, he was on multiple different mental health pills.

I am able to look at one case and decide the merit of charges. If others cannot, that is theirs to deal with.

These school kids would not be dead today if not for the actions and negligence of the parents of Eathan.

Which pills preclude someone from owning a firearm? Which mental issues? Who gets to decide? How close, spouse, child, sibling, cousin, uncle, aunt, grandparent?

 

[GOPerfect]

Which pills preclude someone from owning a firearm? Which mental issues? Who gets to decide? How close, spouse, child, sibling, cousin, uncle, aunt, grandparent?

Once again, this case and this case only am I speaking on.

 

[SomeSoldier]

Once again, this case and this case only am I speaking on.

That is not where this will end.